923 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

It's not dumb at all. People create delusions, great and small, to deceive themselves all the time. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. Or they learn delusions from their experiences and from society in general and never manage to shake them off. Anytime you see someone doing something very illogical, that's nearly always the reason why. Anything from teenagers cutting themselves to people overestimating or underestimating their abilities and attirbutes to people spending copious amounts of time on the ME 3 forums despite apparently thinking ME 3 is a total waste of time.

1. How does any of this relate to Ashley and Miranda?

2. Exactly what did Miranda and Ashley delude themselves into believing?

[Cainhurst Crow]

StreetMagic wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I like how ashely, one of the only love interest to call my shepard out on his **** and have the balls to stand up to him, is considered one of the worst romances in mass effect.

Call him out on what? What did he do?

Let's see, he went to work for a terrorist orginization who helped orchestrate numerous alliance deaths, including the death of a rear admiral by rachni cage fight, not to mention all the other crap they did. Hide valuable intel from the alliance on cerberus. Presumably faked his death for 2 years without so much as saying a goodbye, and later she was suspicious of him having been brought back to life via miracle machine, after I had to wait for so long for someone, anyone, of shepards crew to have any reaction outside of "oh, that's nice. glad we got that straightened out". Numerous times throughout mass effect 1 she provided a pragmatic voice to my optomisim, which I liked, and she also called out some of my more renegade actions, which I love as well. Overall, she just seems like the person who puts reason ahead of feelings, and that is a valuable trait to have in a comrade over blind faith.

I still romanced tali, but ashley is a nice second, followed by miranda, than jack, than everyone else.

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

I thought she won the "admiral for a day" prize from the lottery and just happened to be made admiral during the rannoch arc.

[David7204]

Here's the short version because it's four in the morning.

Miranda heavily glamorizes 'normality' to give herself justification for her work with Cerberus and ultimately so she can hate her father in peace.

Ashley's comments in ME 1 about Shepard making her 'feel good enough' indicate she doesn't recognize her own (possible) power. She looks for confirmation in the wrong places. Probably something 95% or more of people in real life suffer from to some extent.

Modifié par David7204, 05 août 2013 - 08:52 .

[Seboist]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

I thought she won the "admiral for a day" prize from the lottery and just happened to be made admiral during the rannoch arc.

And as another sign of her incompetence, she abandons her position at a critical time for her people so she can play action sidekick with Shepard.

[Bionuts]

David7204 wrote...
She looks for confirmation in the wrong places. Probably something 95% or more of people in real life suffer from to some extent.

Too much honesty.

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

Miranda heavily glamorizes 'normality' to give herself justification for her work with Cerberus and ultimately so she can hate her father in peace.

1. How is this a "delusion"?
2. She doesn't glamorize normalcy.

Ashley's comments in ME 1 about Shepard making her 'feel good enough' indicate she doesn't recognize her own (possible) power. She looks for confirmation in the wrong places. Probably something 95% or more of people in real life suffer from to some extent.

1. Implying that Shepard is "the wrong place".
2. How is this a "delusion"?

[o Ventus]

StreetMagic wrote...

She envies normality. Not so sure about glamorizes it. In ME2, it seems like she sees that as impossible for her. Like she's at the point of no return or something. So she just hopes her sister can have it.

I can't completely say I don't understand her case. She spent the first 16-odd years of her life under her father's domineering will, ran away, and spent (thus far) her entire adult life with an organization widely considered to be terrorists. This coupled with her insecurities about her augmentations, and I can see why Miranda would think normalcy might seem out of reach. 36 years and she's never experienced "normal".

[Dieb]

I think it's the essence of both romances in question, that they are kickass women who slowly learn to open up to someone serving as an example for both a normal and a special person.

In all of the possible origin stories, Shepard starts out as a (in a science ficition future) relatively normal person who sets out to do extraordinary things. Both Miranda and Ashley experience this kind of the other way round: They have always been treated in very unusual ways, and wonder what it's like to be seen as a regular person for a change. Miranda even more so than Ashley.

There's a slight initial attraction to this "other alpha wolf", quickly followed by repulsion for this very discovery, then a brief moment of weakness & glorification of Shepard for apparently having figured out the perfect balance. Eventually though, acceptance and comfort in the knowledge that they both just kind of do their best to make their extraordinary lives work.

But that's just my take on it.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 05 août 2013 - 10:15 .

[nos_astra]

Seboist wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

I thought she won the "admiral for a day" prize from the lottery and just happened to be made admiral during the rannoch arc.

And as another sign of her incompetence, she abandons her position at a critical time for her people so she can play action sidekick with Shepard.

Who doesn't? As in who doesn't get a promotion for being the protagonist's sidekick then abandons their position to flock around Shepard?

Liara? Inexplicably becomes the Shadow Broker who then hangs out on the Normandy for reasons.

Garrus? Has seen a Reaper up close two or three times (if he got lucky), maybe shot at one a few times, mowed down lots of husks and maybe even more mercs, promoted to above-general-something because the really good military guys have died too soon. Leaves his uber-important position to once again live in Shepard's shadow.

The VS? Promoted for their part in ME1 (however small) and unexplained stuff they may have done while away as some sort of hilariously elaborate and illogical plan to be present during the coup at just the right time to protect Udina from Shepard ... out of sheer gratefulness for the position.

Isn't it funny, the guys with the really good jobs who could make a difference on their own drop everything to follow Shepard. Everyone else is busy with their family (Samara, Miranda, Jacob) or their new job (like training kids to become bat****-insane killers functioning biotics in the military) or just because.

Oh, it's a romance thread. Well, the romances are painfully shallow and basically useless. They only serve to spice up headcanon and give a little more dialogue for characters you can stand to have around.

Modifié par klarabella, 05 août 2013 - 11:57 .

[HellbirdIV]

klarabella wrote...

Oh, it's a romance thread. Well, the romances are painfully shallow and basically useless. They only serve to spice up headcanon and give a little more dialogue for characters you can stand to have around.

I don't see how romance subplots are any more useless than the rest of the story?

Personally I find FemShep x Liara adds much needed heart to the entire franchise, giving me a reason to give a crap about all the wanton cyborg murdering.

[The Heretic of Time]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The best move is just to get Tali exiled in ME2 and avoid that whole thing altogether.

Or let her die on the suicide mission, which is arguably an even better option.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The best move is just to get Tali exiled in ME2 and avoid that whole thing altogether.

Or let her die on the suicide mission, which is arguably an even better option.

I keep her alive so she can shank Legion.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

klarabella wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

I thought she won the "admiral for a day" prize from the lottery and just happened to be made admiral during the rannoch arc.

And as another sign of her incompetence, she abandons her position at a critical time for her people so she can play action sidekick with Shepard.

Who doesn't? As in who doesn't get a promotion for being the protagonist's sidekick then abandons their position to flock around Shepard?

Liara? Inexplicably becomes the Shadow Broker who then hangs out on the Normandy for reasons.

Garrus? Has seen a Reaper up close two or three times (if he got lucky), maybe shot at one a few times, mowed down lots of husks and maybe even more mercs, promoted to above-general-something because the really good military guys have died too soon. Leaves his uber-important position to once again live in Shepard's shadow.

The VS? Promoted for their part in ME1 (however small) and unexplained stuff they may have done while away as some sort of hilariously elaborate and illogical plan to be present during the coup at just the right time to protect Udina from Shepard ... out of sheer gratefulness for the position.

Isn't it funny, the guys with the really good jobs who could make a difference on their own drop everything to follow Shepard. Everyone else is busy with their family (Samara, Miranda, Jacob) or their new job (like training kids to become bat****-insane killers functioning biotics in the military) or just because.

Oh, it's a romance thread. Well, the romances are painfully shallow and basically useless. They only serve to spice up headcanon and give a little more dialogue for characters you can stand to have around.

Glad to see people are so wrapped up in me saying Tali was inept as a leader.

Whole point of mentioning that was she's not very Mary Sue-ish. Character flaws add a lot to make someone interesting. And seeing how Shepard is built, he needs some normalcy to balance out his peculiar talents at all things imaginable.

[Seboist]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Not only is Tali incompetent as a leader(needless to say she's a bad fireteam leader on the SM) but the fact that she was made freaking Admiral when she's never even been the captain of a rowboat is pretty damn laughable.

The admiralty board flipped a coin. Heads: Tali is made admiral; tails: Jor'Tan the ****** boy is made admiral.

I thought she won the "admiral for a day" prize from the lottery and just happened to be made admiral during the rannoch arc.

And as another sign of her incompetence, she abandons her position at a critical time for her people so she can play action sidekick with Shepard.

So wait, you say she's an incompetent admiral, but you complain when she ditches that to do something she's actually good at?

Sure, she's not even competent enough to resign as an Admiral first.

[Seboist]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Glad to see people are so wrapped up in me saying Tali was inept as a leader.

Whole point of mentioning that was she's not very Mary Sue-ish. Character flaws add a lot to make someone interesting. And seeing how Shepard is built, he needs some normalcy to balance out his peculiar talents at all things imaginable.

If this were something other than a Bioware game I'd agree but people being inept is either an excuse for pew pew(see ANY Cerberus related mission) or a means for juvenile power tripping for the player(ex. council and Alliance reps in ME3 intro).

Modifié par Seboist, 05 août 2013 - 08:07 .

[CronoDragoon]

Seboist wrote...

And as another sign of her incompetence, she abandons her position at a critical time for her people so she can play action sidekick with Shepard.

Are you suggesting that quarian civilians adjusting to life on Rannoch is more important than what Shepard is doing?

[David7204]

Interesting to hear the person who likes to talk about all the fictional women in video games he's 'had' speak about 'juvenile power tripping.'

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

Interesting to hear the person who likes to talk about all the fictional women in video games he's 'had' speak about 'juvenile power tripping.'

What the hell are you talking about, Davey? The romances are indeed part of the juvenile power trip. No officer in any military is having female subordinates just throw themselves at him or is always the smartest person in the room that everyone, even high ranking officers suck up to or grovel at their feet.