407 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

It's personal 'a person' can do or feel anything. Shepard canonically worked with Alliance in ME 1, and I can't remember ever being given the option to say anything bad about them.

In any case, Shepard is operating an independent ship, even under the Alliance.

Modifié par David7204, 05 août 2013 - 10:49 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Shepard canonically worked with Alliance in ME 1, and I can't remember ever being given the option to say anything bad about them.

That's because you only ever play Paragon goodie-two-shoes Shepard (because "heroism" lol). Try Renegade for a change.

[Kel Riever]

Never liked how Shepard was out of the Alliance but it made sense in the context of basically being an ash that got resurrected. Rejoining the Alliance wasn't a huge leap of faith, but I think deserved more of an explanation than, "We're commandeering this SR2 thing here." Not saying Shep shouldn't have rejoined the Alliance. Not saying the Reapers weren't a big enough reason. But something more.

I like the idea some people had of Shepard being put on trial for killing 300,000 Batarians. The Alliance and Shep might not have started back off on the best of terms. Hacket and Anderson could have been fighting for Shep. When the Reapers blow up Vancouver, at that point, nobody would be worrying that Shep was a prisoner anymore, they needed all the help they could get.

Well, I'd spend time on it, but then I'd be doing someone else's job....

[Caprea]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
 I have long theorised BioWare believed they were untouchable - the fanbase loved them.

Weren't around for DA2, eh?

Ugh. That's the thing with fanbases in general - you deliver, they love you. You drop the ball, they hate you. Though the love-hate thing seems to be pretty extreme in BioWare's case. But I might be wrong.
The DA2 backlash was pretty bad already, but I don't think it was as bad as the ME3 one because of many reasons. One of them being the way the whole problem was handled. And in this particular case, it wasn't handled all that well, to put it mildly. People notice when they're not being taken seriously and fobbed off with ****ty excuses for a ****ty ending to a series they've come to love and care about.
Fans can smell it. They're not dumb.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 05 août 2013 - 11:05 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
 I have long theorised BioWare believed they were untouchable - the fanbase loved them.

Weren't around for DA2, eh?

Oh, I was. That was only the "eye of the hurricane" though. Many people gave them the benefit of doubt - they would redeem themselves with ME3. Naturally, by the exact opposite happening, already miffed fans exploded.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Shepard was a part of the Alliance and a friend to Anderson in ME 1. The only reason Shepard didn't work for them in ME 2 was because they weren't fighting the collectors. But they're sure as hell fighting the Reapers in ME 3. So what justification does Shepard have for hating them? Pettiness?

My Shepard was never a friend to Anderson. I recall in ME1 that I can be quite abrasive towards him and cynical towards him and his views. I can be pretty dismissive towards the alliance as well. My Shepard never believed in the alliance and was always an independent thinker who disagreed with many of their views and the Council. 

In ME2, I can be very dismissive of the alliance and can even express interest in joining Cerberus to Miranda. Especially after Horizon and Ashley and the resultant fallout of confronting the Council over their crap. That's when my Shepard all but cuts ties to them.

Are you upset that my Shepard isn't being heroic? That he doesn't believe in white-knighting everybody?

[David7204]

Ultimately, Shepard is going to be working with the Alliance in the game. So I'm not going to have dialogue saying the Alliance is stupid and pointless when the actions of the characters clearly contradict that.

I'd have Shepard either gladly agreeing to help the Alliance or hesitantly agreeing to help the Alliance. But either way, the pros outweigh the cons.

[Ownedbacon]

Mr.House wrote...

Element Engine wrote...

Hudson's gotten a lot of undeserved heat. Whether you liked the ending to ME3 or not, the trilogy wouldn't be what it is without him. It's a lot like the George Lucas situation. "LUCAS RUINED STAR WARS!" Yeah, he also created it. So STFU.

People are too quick to knock others down.

So without Casey, the ME trilogy would not be a inconsistant mess that is not even a trilogy with one of the worst endings possible for a story that insults the IQ of it's player?

Also Lucas did create SW, you do know many of the things people loved about 4,5 and 6 where not even created by Lucas right? It was all peer review as lucas did not have laot of freedom in 4,5 and 6. He did have freedom in ep 1,2 and 3. It shows. Casey might have created ME but he destroyed it because he wanted people to talk.

You are spot on with this. George Lucas and Gary Kurtz had a falling out after Empire that attributed to ROTJ having issues. When the prequels came along Lucas was surrounded by a lot of yes-men that didn't challenge him like Kurtz and others to flesh out the plot and characters. Leading to a soulless schlock that Episodes 1-3 were.

With Mass Effect there was a lead writer Drew Karpyshyn who had been a part of the process until he was shuffled over to The Old Republic. This much like the loss of Kurtz drastically affected the direction of the series. Casey Hudson wasn't alone in the series' downfall, Mac Walters as the solo lead writer set up the main storyline to Mass Effect 3. Casey and Walters alone were the only ones to collaborate on the endings and were left unchecked by the rest of the writing staff. Casey like Lucas was working with a yes-man created the infamous ending to a once great series.

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My Shepard was never a friend to Anderson. I recall in ME1 that I can be quite abrasive towards him and cynical towards him and his views. I can be pretty dismissive towards the alliance as well. My Shepard never believed in the alliance and was always an independent thinker who disagreed with many of their views and the Council. 

Really? I'm having trouble undertstanding why Anderson picked Shepard to captain the Normandy if they were on such lousy terms as you claim. Why the audio logs in Citadel speak so warmly of Shepard? Why Anderson left Shepard his apartment? Why Shepard joined the Alliance at all if he never believed in them? Why Shepard accepted a position working for the Council if he opposed them?

And although you didn't mention this, why Liara retrived Shepard's body if they hated each other? And why they hugged on Illium? And why Shepard didn't kick her off the ship in ME 1 and ME 3? And why Shepard dove for her instead of the other squadmate when the Broker threw that table at them?

Could could explain those little instances for me?

Modifié par David7204, 05 août 2013 - 11:05 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Ultimately, Shepard is going to be working with the Alliance in the game. So I'm not going to have dialogue saying the Alliance is stupid and pointless when the actions of the characters clearly contradict that.

Yet ultimately in ME2 I was going to end up working for Cerberus one way or the other, yet I can express hatred and distrust to them. So this point falls wrong.

I'd have Shepard either gladly agreeing to help the Alliance or hesitantly agreeing to help the Alliance. But either way, the pros outweigh the cons.

My Shepard very reluctantly agrees to help the alliance, and blatantly uses Spectre authority when he is reinstated to order Hackett to get **** done while he prepares the galaxy. He's stuck with them, and the council is being the council and Cerberus is indoctrinated unfortuately, so until he can build his fleet, he's all they have.

To quote Sherlock from 'The Reichenback Fall' about my Shepard:

[Fiddles dee dee]

I hate that PR and the games industry are becoming friends. It's just unnatural, like that slightly backwards friend who tries really hard suddenly spending all their time with their new LI who makes that friend give them all sorts of concessions and lower their standards, "I know I got arrested with a woman of the night baby but I really was just guiding her to a better place".

Oh PR please stop being a Richard Nixon to my slightly backwards friend the games industry.

[Steelcan]

@David, Anderson could give the Normandy to Shepard because he is the most capable operative, not because they are great pals.

[Bourne Endeavor]

David7204 wrote...

Shepard was a part of the Alliance and a friend to Anderson in ME 1. The only reason Shepard didn't work for them in ME 2 was because they weren't fighting the collectors. But they're sure as hell fighting the Reapers in ME 3. So what justification does Shepard have for hating them? Pettiness?

As StreetMagic said, Shepard may not necessarily hate the Alliance, but for some, has little reason to like them. People's complaints do not stem from rejoining, just the seemingly unquestioned loyalty Shepard shows. For instance, my Shepard viewed the Alliance abandoning her and her cooperation with them in ME3 is essentially an extension of her "loyalty" to Cerberus. "I'm helping you because you're the only one doing something."

Other people had their Shepards believe Cerberus, leaving only due to TIM's willingness to dip too far into the extremes.

ME3 railroads you into accepting the Alliance wholesale and hating Cerberus. Some dialogue to personalise Shepard would have been appreciated and gone a long way in quelling the auto-dialogue complaints.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 05 août 2013 - 11:56 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My Shepard was never a friend to Anderson. I recall in ME1 that I can be quite abrasive towards him and cynical towards him and his views. I can be pretty dismissive towards the alliance as well. My Shepard never believed in the alliance and was always an independent thinker who disagreed with many of their views and the Council. 

Really? I'm having trouble undertstanding why Anderson picked Shepard to captain the Normandy if they were on such lousy terms as you claim. Why the audio logs in Citadel speak so warmly of Shepard? Why Anderson left Shepard his apartment? Why Shepard joined the Alliance at all if he never believed in them? Why Shepard accepted a position working for the Council if he opposed them?

And although you didn't mention this, why Liara retrived Shepard's body if they hated each other? And why the hugged on Illium? And why Shepard didn't kick her off the ship in ME 1 and ME 3? And why Shepard dove for her instead of the other squadmate when the Broker threw that table at them?

Could could explain those little instances for me?

All those are clear examples of BioWare writers' favoritism for Liara and the Paragon path, leaving the Renegade path nothing more than an inconsistent broken mess.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 05 août 2013 - 11:06 .

[DeinonSlayer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

To quote Sherlock from 'The Reichenback Fall' about my Shepard:

This certainly makes for the most interesting type of Shepard in my book.

[David7204]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

All those are clear examples of BioWare writers' favoritism for Liara and the Paragon path, leaving the Renegade path nothing more than an inconsistent broken mess.

Indeed.

And look at that. LotSB and Citadel are overwhelmingly considered the best DLCs of the Mass Effect series. The conversation with Anderson at the end of the game is lauded.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

My Shepard was never a friend to Anderson. I recall in ME1 that I can be quite abrasive towards him and cynical
towards him and his views. I can be pretty dismissive towards the alliance as well. My Shepard never believed in the alliance and was always an independent thinker who disagreed with many of their views and the Council. 

Really? I'm having trouble undertstanding why Anderson picked Shepard to captain the Normandy if they were on such lousy terms as you claim. Why the audio logs in Citadel speak so warmly of Shepard? Why Anderson left Shepard his apartment? Why Shepard joined the Alliance at all if he never believed in them? Why Shepard accepted a position working for the Council if he opposed them?

Because Anderson thinks I'm his protege for some reason. He's a man. A good and honorable one, but that's his flaw in my opinion (and my Shepard's). And regardless, my Shepard can be quite abrasive and dickish to Anderson in ME1. If anything, what goes on in Citadel is Anderson simply doesn't know the real Shepard. And my Shepard likes it that way. My Shepard joined the alliance as a means to get out of the poor slums of Earth and to make his life better. He believed in humanity, and he believed in the future in space, but he never believed for one second in the alliance. Or maybe he did, but he's become so disillusioned with them that he really can't think of them without thoughts of bitter loathing creeping in. And you can outright be a jackass to the Council and say that you want to refuse. The alliance won't let you. They make you become a Spectre whether you want to be one or not. I imagine if Shepard refused, he'd be finding his career hitting a dead end very soon. It's a political thing.

And although you didn't mention this, why Liara retrived Shepard's body if they hated each other? And why the hugged on Illium? And why Shepard didn't kick her off the ship in ME 1 and ME 3? And why Shepard dove for her instead of the other squadmate when the Broker threw that table at them?

Could could explain those little instances for me?

Because Liara loves Shepard even though he's ambivalent to her (and she clearly has a problem if she's unromanced)? 

Because I didn't hug Liara on Illium? Because I wanted to kick her off but talked into keeping her by Wrex or Kaidan? Because that was the point where SuperMac was starting to force his love for the blueberry on the game? Or, since I can take Grunt or Legion or someone bigger and stockier with me, it'd be redundant to go after one of them?

Regardless, it becomes a bit of a narrative disaster if Liara is little more than that annoying blue squid hanging out in my LI's quarters (which I promptly evict her from post-war).

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 05 août 2013 - 11:14 .

[_Syn_]

This game is remembered for all the wrong reasons. I enjoyed the ride, but I hated the end and will probably never purchase another game from this studio again, especially another from EA.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

To quote Sherlock from 'The Reichenback Fall' about my Shepard:

This certainly makes for the most interesting type of Shepard in my book.

Yeah. That's why I play my Shepard as him. That's why he supports Cerberus, experiments and all.

[David7204]

No, Shepard argues to become a Spectre. Argues to work for the Council. If it was really something he didn't want to do, it would have been trivial to just stay quiet and let the Councils conclude humanity isn't quite ready.

Wrex and Kaidan must be very convincing to overturn Shepard's thoughts about Liara. And here I thought 'your Shepard' was dead-set on such things.

So let's review. Your Shepard is apparently very outspoken, hates politics, hates Liara, hates the Alliance, but yet keeps his true feelings on the Alliance quiet to Anderson, bows to political pressure, keeps Liara on the team...

Modifié par David7204, 05 août 2013 - 11:18 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

All those are clear examples of BioWare writers' favoritism for Liara and the Paragon path, leaving the Renegade path nothing more than an inconsistent broken mess.

Indeed.

And look at that. LotSB and Citadel are overwhelmingly considered the best DLCs of the Mass Effect series. The conversation with Anderson at the end of the game is lauded.

The succes of LOTSB or the Citadel DLC has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the writing (or lack there of) or BioWare's clear cringe-worthy Paragon favoritism.

[dreamgazer]

Oh! At least we have a quote and image from Sherlock this time around. That's different.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

No, Shepard argues to become a Spectre. Argues to work for the Council. If it was really something he didn't want to do, it would have been trivial to just stay quiet and let the Councils conclude humanity isn't quite ready.

Or maybe because he has to get the job done? You can tell the Council to make Shepard a Spectre based on pragmatism. Make him a Spectre, and he'll do what they're unwilling and unwanting to do. He can argue against the Council and the Spectres as well. It's utility to him.

It can be a bit like the quote from Casino Royale: Well, I understand double-O's have a very short life expectancy, so your mistake will be short-lived.

Wrex can argue that she's useful with her biotics, and Kaidan can argue that she may be of use with her knowledge of the Protheans. My Shepard isn't an idiot, and he'll take their account into consideration. He realizes that he needs to stop Saren, and Liara's information on the Protheans might be worth keeping her on the ship for that. But yes, you can display displeasure.

My Shepard loves politics just fine. He just hates stupid politicians doing stupid things with questionable and asinine policies.

And he would have to bow to political pressure at some points. If he doesn't, his career will be stalled very fast, and the galaxy will be screwed. And he can keep his feelings to himself for many reasons. I routinely work with people who think I'm their friend while I absolutely despise them, and I have my own reasons.

It seems you just can't accept that people play Shepard differently than you. There isn't some quantitive, objective Shepard that exists, just like theirs no Grey Warden, or Hawke, or Revan, or Meetra Surik, or Imperial Agent, or Hero of Tython, or Darth Nox, or Barsen'thor.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 05 août 2013 - 11:26 .