407 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's too bad. You aren't going like every character in every story, and that's really the end of it. Mass Effect is not obligated to change that by virtue of being a video game.

But what about virtue of it being a game where 'choices, decisions, and relationships matter?' as Casey Hudson put it?

You beleived him after ME2 where there was alot of railroading with certain characters?

Railroading with what characters? I'm not denying, I'm just asking which ones you're referring too.

Joker being the best example.

How do you think he was railroaded?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Not true in the slightest.

Nearly all friendly side characters in every story in existence could be eliminated without the story significantly changing.

Enlighten me, what is the purpose of characters?

Conduits for heroism, examples to pass off oversexualization as "characterization", objects for the PC's fun and amusement?

[David7204]

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

[Redbelle]

David7204 wrote...

It's a stupid idea. I don't need to point out all the myriad reasons why having a 'replacement' for every character in the story is ridiculous.

I went to great length's to keep every one of my character's alive.... aside from the ones that had to die. So I've never met any of the alternate replacement's.......

And there's really two points that come out of that.

1. That character's are important, for many a different reason.

and 2. Because I kept them alive the missions where I had them had more resonance because they were people I'd come to know. And getting to know these character's is half the battle towards looking forward to seeing them again.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

No. First of all, characters exist to provide more than 'plot critical functions.'

Secondly, some characters are irreplaceable.

Yes, but it depends on the players and their Shepards.

That said, every character has a role that could be fulfilled by someone else in ME3. Hell, what if we betrayed Liara to the Broker in ME2? I'd get intel from him. An empty cabin (one that should remain empty in my opinion) is all I'm missing. 

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. First of all, characters exist to provide more than 'plot critical functions.'

Secondly, some characters are irreplaceable.

Yes, but it depends on the players and their Shepards.

That said, every character has a role that could be fulfilled by someone else in ME3. Hell, what if we betrayed Liara to the Broker in ME2? I'd get intel from him. An empty cabin (one that should remain empty in my opinion) is all I'm missing. 

But who will stalk you obbsessively?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. First of all, characters exist to provide more than 'plot critical functions.'

Secondly, some characters are irreplaceable.

Yes, but it depends on the players and their Shepards.

That said, every character has a role that could be fulfilled by someone else in ME3. Hell, what if we betrayed Liara to the Broker in ME2? I'd get intel from him. An empty cabin (one that should remain empty in my opinion) is all I'm missing. 

But who will stalk you obbsessively?

... Tali?

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

... Tali?

Can be dead

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

... Tali?

Can be dead

Harbinger?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

What effect on the central themes of ME would cutting Liara result in?

Modifié par Steelcan, 05 août 2013 - 10:00 .

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

... Tali?

Can be dead

Harbinger?

I guess it would be up to Harby

[David7204]

That depends on what you define the 'central themes' as. Lair of the Shadow Broker certainly has very strong themes of friendship and love and so forth. Are those 'central themes' to the story?

Modifié par David7204, 05 août 2013 - 10:00 .

[Mr.House]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's too bad. You aren't going like every character in every story, and that's really the end of it. Mass Effect is not obligated to change that by virtue of being a video game.

But what about virtue of it being a game where 'choices, decisions, and relationships matter?' as Casey Hudson put it?

You beleived him after ME2 where there was alot of railroading with certain characters?

Railroading with what characters? I'm not denying, I'm just asking which ones you're referring too.

Joker being the best example.

How do you think he was railroaded?

Shepard is happy to see Joker again and has no option to tell him off or anything else. The first sighting of auto Shepard.

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

What effect on the central themes of ME would cutting Liara result in?

You would not have stopped Saren.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

That depends on what you define the 'central themes' as. Lair of the Shadow Broker certainly has very strong themes of friendship and love and so forth. Are those 'central themes' to the story?

It depends on the Shepard you play.  You can have a war crime commiting racist douche be the saviour of the galaxy. 

Also, LotSB is DLC and entirely optional.

[Steelcan]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

What effect on the central themes of ME would cutting Liara result in?

You would not have stopped Saren.

Why?  We could always get another Prothean researcher, one who knows their stuff.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's too bad. You aren't going like every character in every story, and that's really the end of it. Mass Effect is not obligated to change that by virtue of being a video game.

But what about virtue of it being a game where 'choices, decisions, and relationships matter?' as Casey Hudson put it?

You beleived him after ME2 where there was alot of railroading with certain characters?

Railroading with what characters? I'm not denying, I'm just asking which ones you're referring too.

Joker being the best example.

How do you think he was railroaded?

Shepard is happy to see Joker again and has no option to tell him off or anything else. The first sighting of auto Shepard.

Why would he tell him off.... Oh wait, yeah, this is the guy that got you killed.... Still, I think that was a pretty minor case. Very minor in fact.

Yeah, you could be railroaded into working for Cerberus in ME2. But at least you could be against it vocally. You didn't have to like it. Whereas in ME3, I can't vocalize how much I hate the alliance and the Council and really don't feel much more than some insincere affection for anyone on my crew that isn't Joker, James, or Javik. 

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

What effect on the central themes of ME would cutting Liara result in?

You would not have stopped Saren.

Why?  We could always get another Prothean researcher, one who knows their stuff.

Yes let's waste time looking for another prothean expert instead of the one who not only beleives the protheans did not createt he Citadel and relays, but also knows Illos, just not it's location. By your logic, TIM could have gotten another Cerberus opertive to head Lazarus who was comptent.

[Steelcan]

Explain to me how Miranda was incompetent? I'll be glad to give examples of Liara's incompetence.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What's the purpose of anything in a story? To provide meaningful and entertaining interactions, themes, and conflicts.

  Sounds like moving a plot along to me

That depends on what you define a 'plot' as. You obviously can't claim that characters can be cut without affecting the plot if the themes and conflicts of the characters are part of the plot.

What effect on the central themes of ME would cutting Liara result in?

You would not have stopped Saren.

Why?  We could always get another Prothean researcher, one who knows their stuff.

Yes let's waste time looking for another prothean expert instead of the one who not only beleives the protheans did not createt he Citadel and relays, but also knows Illos, just not it's location. By your logic, TIM could have gotten another Cerberus opertive to head Lazarus who was comptent.

I see the necessity to Liara in ME1. But I don't see why she suddenly became important to the story just because she has a very odd and exteme unreciprocated love with my Shepard.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

I can't blame Liara on that. No one knows about the Protheans as much as Shepard. He/she practically is a Prothean in some ways.

She dedicated her life to studying them and knew absoputely nothing about them.  Not their system of government, not their societal structure, not their religious beliefs, nothing.