329 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is there any dislogue that indicates Shepard is interested in anything other than stopping the war?

It seems to me that this question is already rooted in a false presumption. The thematic content of a story isn't fixed by its protagonist's beliefs about those themes, or even his or her refusal to have beliefs about those themes. The heavy religious symbolism of the scene (Shepard is lifted upwards into the light, as if to receive judgment by a divine being), the tone of collaboration with the catalyst surrounding synthesis ("We need each other to make it happen"), and the fact that if you shoot or refuse the catalyst, you get the worst possible outcome, suggest that the catalyst is to be seen as an authoritative information source. In our zeal to avoid metagaming, we tend to avoid talking things like theme, symbolism, tone, etc., but if we're taking account of what a game is all about, we ought to consider those things at some point or other.

[Wolfva2]

Random Geth wrote...

I can only imagine that the OP is either very young and hasn't played many video games if this is one of the best endings he's encountered.

That or this is just bait. I strongly hope it's the latter, but I've seen these forums for too long to be hopeful.

Or hey, maybe he's just an individual who happens to like things you don't?  Nah, that can't be it.  He's either an object of derision, or else he's a troll.  I mean, what else CAN he be?  After all, he disagrees with YOU, and NO ONE must disagree with you, or like the things you don't like.  It's inconceivable!

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is there any dislogue that indicates Shepard is interested in anything other than stopping the war?

 I'll fight and win this war without compromising the soul of our species. 

[KaiserShep]

I have to say, when facing imminent extinction from synthetic monsters hellbent on wiping the galaxy clean of advanced civilizations, the "soul" of a species is about as meaningful as a fart in a hurricane. Besides, once the galaxy is saved and the monsters are dead, there's always time for atonement.

If you decided to harness the monsters, the way you made the path up to that point can shape the tone completely. Of course, I don't agree with the option at all, but at least it varies based on the personality you steered toward.

Synthesis is a funky animal. I don't care to really delve into that one too much because it's such a theme-breaking left fielder, but on its face, at least it saves everyone, even if it does so in a manner you may consider repugnant.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 06 août 2013 - 05:31 .

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

I have to say, when facing imminent extinction from synthetic monsters hellbent on wiping the galaxy clean of advanced civilizations, the "soul" of a species is about as meaningful as a fart in a hurricane. Besides, once the galaxy is saved and the monsters are dead, there's always time for atonement.

And yet for 2.9 games, it was a valid way to play the game.

Until it stopped being artistic, at least.

[KaiserShep]

I still think that the consequence is terribly arbitrary, but I'm simply working with what we were given in the story. If you want to destroy the reapers and be done with them once and for all, x is the price. Whether or not X makes sense is neither here or there at this point, but if you're adamant about going this route from a roleplaying perspective, you can either A. rationalize your action by diminishing the worth of synthetics to make this choice seem better, or B. consider their loss a terrible tragedy and live with the burden of guilt while saving the rest of the galaxy. If neither A or B are acceptable, then perhaps you should consider the other "monstrous" options instead.

I understand that thematically, this is a wreck, but those are the breaks I suppose.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 06 août 2013 - 05:56 .

[Iakus]

 Or in my case C) Pick MEHEM and let the more logical less arbitrary price simply be the wrecked colonies, billions of dead, lost friends, and the damaged relay network be the price.

[KaiserShep]

Problem with MEHEM is how familiar its components are. Pieces of the Suicide Mission (even the theme music in the version I watched), and even a line of dialogue from ME1 just stand out a bit too much, to the point where if I actually had a PC, I would probably not bother to use it, but to each his own.

[ShepnTali]

iakus wrote...

 Or in my case C) Pick MEHEM and let the more logical less arbitrary price simply be the wrecked colonies, billions of dead, lost friends, and the damaged relay network be the price.

Rainbows and bunny rabbits, clearly.

Modifié par ShepnTali, 06 août 2013 - 06:11 .

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

Problem with MEHEM is how familiar its components are. Pieces of the Suicide Mission (even the theme music in the version I watched), and even a line of dialogue from ME1 just stand out a bit too much, to the point where if I actually had a PC, I would probably not bother to use it, but to each his own.

the MEHEM team is actually working on original content for the next iteration.  Original music, scenery, etc.  Even a low EMS version, so I hear

But even he WIP we have now is far more satisfying to me than any of the endings Bioware dumped on us

[Sir DeLoria]

StreetMagic wrote...

I would sacrifice a trillion infants and 10 trillion bunnies, if it meant an end to the reapers. Whatever happens to my soul or whether I need to worry about atonement is irrelevant. I'm surprised anyone even gives a thought to EDI or the Geth.

Yeah, I don't get why people won't sacrifice the Geth for the Quarians. I'd sacrifice the rest of the damn galaxy for the Quarians 

In any event, a bunch of robots are irrelevant if it means the end of the Reapers.

Modifié par Necanor, 06 août 2013 - 06:22 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Is there any dislogue that indicates Shepard is interested in anything other than stopping the war?

 I'll fight and win this war without compromising the soul of our species. 

"But I am willing to allow the Crucible to rape their DNA."

Couldn't resist. 

[PMC65]

Mass Effect 3 Has One Of The Best Endings Of All Time ...

OnlyMrChill wrote...

I'm a bit late on the Mass Effect trilogy but I've been playing it these past few months and I just beat the last game (ME3 extended cut) and I got an ending that I believe might just be one of the best ending I have ever experienced in a video game. It was the Destroy Ending.

 I maxed out my readiness by playing multiplayer, had all the war assets and went all out.
I:
Killed the Reapers
My Crew survived (except for edi, didn't care for her tho)
Shep survived
Life is back to normal, they just got to repair the mass relays

I also didn't care for the Geth or Tali and her species dying. I only cared about me, Miranda, ensuring humanities survival and killing those damn reapers.

So why all the hate towards the ending(s) of this game?

First off, I'm always glad to hear that someone liked the Mass Effect 3 ending. Granted, it is always on the BSN and not anyone I meet face to face (family, friends, conventions, Bioware events). But I also notice that fellow Bioware fans in person are friendly, talk about the characters as if we are talking about old friends and eager to talk about the choices that everyone made ... from class to romance to background and so on.

If someone mentions the endings it is in a hushed tone and a groan and the conversation returns to the brighter spots of the story. "Better to not dwell on the negative," said one Tali Fan. I have met people who did not hate the ending. They were more lukewarm over the ending. The game was just one more game in their collection and once completed they were off to the next. I want to grow up and be just like them!

As to why I did not find satisfaction with the original ending of Mass Effect 3? I picked an option and the lights went out. Or at least that's how it felt to me. There was no explanation. One minute I was looking at Shepard and the next "buy more DLC". Three games, hundreds of hours of gameplay and this was the end? Crap! But ... but ... what the??? I have not replayed the game after that first time but maybe one day.
 
But if you found it to be the best ending of all time ... I am truly happy for you. And a little envious.

Despite how I feel about the ending, I still think that Casey and his team made an amazing universe and the first game is one of my favorite video games to date. Yes, I even loved riding around in the mako on different planets and looking up into the skies. Listening to the sounds of that animal off in the distance somewhere, finding a goggled corpse and other little treats as you moved around the various planets. Sorry, I digress.   

So while I was greatly disappointed in the ME3 ending there are no hard feelings. Oh, and no more preorders.

[dorktainian]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

"But I am willing to allow the Crucible to rape their DNA."

Couldn't resist. 

ah yes...someone with a clear vision of whats actually going on.  

[Wolfva2]

So, what you're saying is Synthesis is Shepard saying this to your genetic material....

[Brovikk Rasputin]

I agree. Don't mind the people on here who tells you that it "sucks." They're simply a very loud minority.

Good you enjoyed this excellent game and ending!

[Scorpion1O1]

Am I the only one that cared about the Geth and EDI?

[Bourne Endeavor]

Scorpion1O1 wrote...

Am I the only one that cared about the Geth and EDI?

I care about them enough to headcanon they didn't die when I pick Destroy. Does that count?

[3DandBeyond]

CronoDragoon wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

It makes complete sense-if the solution is synthesis and he's achieved it then there is no such problem.

The pronouns are confusing me a bit so let me rephrase this to make sure I have it right:

It makes complete sense-if the solution is Synthesis and the Catalyst has already achieved it (with the Reapers) then there is no such problem.

If that's what you mean then the counter is that the Catalyst hasn't achieved it with the Reapers and tells you flat out that they are failed attempts at Synthesis. He's been looking for the "ideal solution" to the organic/synthetic conflict this entire time, but not until the Crucible docks can a better (subjectively) option be presented. 

And it's the fact that the "problem" is never a major theme of the story.  It is part of minor stories within the larger story, but problems that are solved one way or another.

My real point though was that reapers were the foe, killing them the goal.  They aren't synthetics so it is not a fight of organics vs synthetics.  The ending is about organics vs synthetics but the story isn't.

Well, Mass Effect 1 is probably the game that focuses the most on organic/synthetic conflict. But I agree that the goal has always been to destroy them, at least explicitly.

I agree he says his attempts at it have always failed but considering the reapers as an example, it just doesn't ring true.  I mean, his statement is that they are his solution and they were perfectly fine until an outside influence (the crucible) changed him.  So he was perfectly "happy" with the reapers up until that moment.

Perhaps a shallow argument anyway since his attempt is to attain the impossible if it is to look for perfection.  Synthesis of the sort he seems to be attempting has been tried and always failed.  And he seems to think that anythiing that can happen is inevitable so why he thinks that something that has always failed could be achieved just doesn't even seem to fit with the rest of what he says.

If you take the original problem-synthetics will inevitably kill all organics.  Ok, why?  The information he had was that some synthetics that were created killed  some organics.  And from this comes inevitability.  And synthesis is seen by him as the inevitable conclusion of evolution and he wants it to happen but doesn't like evolution and so he then doesn't want evolution to lead to synthesis-he needs to make it happen.  Why if it will happen anyway?  It seems clear that it's not inevitable for evolution to lead to it if he doesn't trust evolution.  He says evolution will inevitably lead to synthesis (and no I don't believe this anyway), but the process must be forced.  Then why can't he see that something that has always failed will inevitably fail?  He uses far less "evidence" to perceive inevitability in other things.

I'm just saying his programming is so bad that he thinks just because something might happen, it will happen.  So his inevitability meter is all out of whack.  I'd think he'd be far more likely to believe synthesis is impossible since he's always failed at making it happen as he wants it to happen, than to think synthetics will inevitably kill all organic life.  And that is a real issue as well.  If that is inevitable, then nothing that is done will keep that from happening or it is not inevitable.  It's like he "wants" to have it both ways.  On the one hand, something that kept failing is inevitable, but on the other hand something that is inevitable can be stopped. 

I know I'm not saying this very well but as imperfect as the reapers are as a form of synthesis they are actually far more perfect than what ultimately happens if that's chosen.  True synthesis would result in more clearly defined new beings but the writers tried too hard to make what was shown in the original endings seem better.  As messed up as the idea was I think they sort of got it more right originally than in the EC.  It should have clearly changed everything to become more alike and made of the same new DNA (which would lead to them being more alike).  Instead the EC is like Synthesis-lite.  You have synthetics that are still sort of themselves with full understanding of organics and organics with tech inside them perhaps nanites and attached to the DNA.  But it either doesn't change them fundamentally (then why do it) or it does (so that means the tech changes them against their will into something else, taking their free will with it).  To me, it's just an odd conundrum whereas the reapers had fully assimilated not only the organic components of people but their minds as well. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 06 août 2013 - 03:40 .

[Twilight_Princess]

StreetMagic wrote...

I kind of care about EDI (Geth, no.. Legion is a punk for trying to upload Reaper codes, especially at this time.. especially if I just had a conversation with a Reaper. And especially when Legion said the Geth aspire to find their own path in ME2). EDI didn't choose to be Reaper based. Not her fault. Still doesn't mean she's more important than my objective though.

Yeah none of my shepards supported that stupid move, my paragade only let him upload it because she didn't want the geth and quarians to kill eachother. I mean really legion, REALLY?! We're building a device that might potentially wipe out the reapers, did it occur to him or anyone that this might mean anything with a reaper code too? After legion experienced this wonderful reaper upgrade it was like talking to a drug addict "But shepard we NEED THIS".
Ok ,fine legion <_< enjoy your reaper code. But if this does backfire on you down the road, if uploading this code makes you collateral damage later , too bad. The only one I felt sorry for was Edi really. As you said, humans gave her reapers parts. So the choice was Edi or the rest of the universe for me. And after virmire and arrival, shepard has shown she has had to make sucky choices before and this was no different.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 06 août 2013 - 04:13 .

[Enhanced]

OnlyMrChill wrote...

I'm a bit late on the Mass Effect trilogy but I've been playing it these past few months and I just beat the last game (ME3 extended cut) and I got an ending that I believe might just be one of the best ending I have ever experienced in a video game. It was the Destroy Ending.

 I maxed out my readiness by playing multiplayer, had all the war assets and went all out.
I:
Killed the Reapers
My Crew survived (except for edi, didn't care for her tho)
Shep survived
Life is back to normal, they just got to repair the mass relays

I also didn't care for the Geth or Tali and her species dying. I only cared about me, Miranda, ensuring humanities survival and killing those damn reapers.



So why all the hate towards the ending(s) of this game?

If you are talking about the Destroy ending itself and not the what happens to galaxy after the ending, yes it's the best one. The Reapers are killed.  However it does not the solve problem that they were trying to solve. Organic/synthetic conflicts , aka..."Chaos" will continue to happen. Synthetic life will be rebuilt and then they'll eventually try to destroy the races that create them. It's inevitable. The synthetics may not succeed everytime, but just like in the Quarian/Geth Wars, lots of lives will be lost.

Modifié par Enhanced, 06 août 2013 - 04:22 .