1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Reofeir]

Ser Bard wrote...

Could out of combat regeneration of health/mana be a settings choice rather than mandatory on lower difficulties?

I'd like the same for friendly fire but OT.

As much as I am loving the thought of an extra challenge (), the choice would be nice.
However I would simply continue on playing on the hardest anyways. BRING IT ON NO HEALTH REGEN!

[wolfhowwl]

Suffer you filthy casuals.

[Fast Jimmy]

o Ventus wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They didn't announce permadeath. It isn't like having anyone in combat falling is going to be an instant Game Over screen.

Good for them?

Come on, people. If you are REALLY that worried about a system that doesn't automatically heal all wounds after every fight, I guarantee the Casual/Narrative difficulty will be extremely forgiving.

Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to run out of health potions, just like how it's possible to barely scrape past hard encounters (something that will happen much more frequently now that enemies don't scale to the player's level). Like I said before, it will be worse if an enemy scores a lucky crit.

And, again... Casual/Narrative difficulty. 

I understand some people did complain that DA:O's Casual difficulty was too hard. But if anyone can legitimately say that ME3's Narrative difficutly was too hard for them to play, then I doubt any gameplay design changes would have made it much better for them.

[Fast Jimmy]

Am1_vf wrote...

 I think I found a visual representation of what some here seem to fear form the absence of health regen:
by NanoeTetsu 

Without permadeath, this isn't even possible. 

We don't know how this will work, but one can easily still assume characters will hop right back up after combat is done... just with very little health and maybe an injury.

[Bleachrude]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Suffer you filthy casuals.

In boredom, maybe?

I mean, currently we don't know how anything works outside of "health doesn't regnerate.".

If, for some insane reason, mana does, all this means is that "casuals" will always bring a healer and simply stand in place and simply heal everyone once they have suffificent mana....

If mana doesn't regnerate, then all it means is that instead of the casual brewing/buying a couple of potions, the casual player will simply buy out the whole store

Honestly, I don't see this mechanic as one that separates casuals from hardcore (whatever hardcore is supposed to mean with a game). Its not HARDER or anything and it doesn't change how a casual will play the game (so instead of going to the store and clicking on "buy cure wound potion" twice, they'll have to click on it 20 times..)

Now...the non level-scaling...that might affect casuals since casual players I find are the ones that tend to explore more (aka they're not as focused on the plot) and non level-scaling tends to punish the ones that have wanderlust as a trait for their characters...

[philippe willaume]

o Ventus wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They didn't announce permadeath. It isn't like having anyone in combat falling is going to be an instant Game Over screen.

Good for them?

Come on, people. If you are REALLY that worried about a system that doesn't automatically heal all wounds after every fight, I guarantee the Casual/Narrative difficulty will be extremely forgiving.

Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to run out of health potions, just like how it's possible to barely scrape past hard encounters (something that will happen much more frequently now that enemies don't scale to the player's level). Like I said before, it will be worse if an enemy scores a lucky crit.

hello
from the resource management aspect, the difference between gulping potion in fight or outside fight is moot. The same  mechanism of potion hoarding works the same (ie craft buy or loot).
Now resting to recover heath is a essentially a time consuming substitute to point,
ie it is the same as potion in more  boring.

if everything remains the same, no automatic regeneration does  not really change anything other than slightly more resource consuming (and make  heath syphoning talents/spell more attractive) and make you click on something  that either give regeneration or bulk health points (first aid/food/potion).

So I totally agree, if it is to do that there is no point of getting rid of automatic regeneration, it really does not make that much of difference.

Permadeath and a wounding system where the injured  party needs to recuperate at camp, that's an other story.

ps

in DA:0,m with massively suboptimal build, if  you are smart enough you don't really need to use any potion. whilst that is not possible to replicate that in DA:2. only one optimal build in the team will make potion reliance moot.

Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 08 août 2013 - 03:30 .

[Am1vf]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

 I think I found a visual representation of what some here seem to fear form the absence of health regen:
by NanoeTetsu 

Without permadeath, this isn't even possible. 

We don't know how this will work, but one can easily still assume characters will hop right back up after combat is done... just with very little health and maybe an injury.

I imagined they were just unconcius since non-tutorial companions are all immortal.

[Olmerto]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Hope they make health potions not so difficult to make (DA:O HP pot can be crafted too easily imo, gotta be harder than that). Or healing spell is available to all mage companion. Otherwise, battles are gonna be pains in the butts.

Admit it, you really don't know how difficult battles will be with or without regenerating health. No one does.

[Fast Jimmy]

Am1_vf wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

 I think I found a visual representation of what some here seem to fear form the absence of health regen:
by NanoeTetsu 

Without permadeath, this isn't even possible. 

We don't know how this will work, but one can easily still assume characters will hop right back up after combat is done... just with very little health and maybe an injury.

I imagined they were just unconcius since non-tutorial companions are all immortal.

There is still a WORLD of difference between "health doesn't regenerate after every battle to 100%" and "if you fall in combat, that character is a dead body you have to drag around until you can get to a town/inn/temple." 

Bioware would not commit to such a model. What if you are in the last dungeon of the game and the PC falls in combat? Will you do all the end game cutscenes passed out? Of course not.

You will hop right back up after battle, but just with very little health. Expecting anything else with the cinematic focus of Bioware games is a little silly and alarmist for no reason whatsoever.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They didn't announce permadeath. It isn't like having anyone in combat falling is going to be an instant Game Over screen.

Good for them?

Come on, people. If you are REALLY that worried about a system that doesn't automatically heal all wounds after every fight, I guarantee the Casual/Narrative difficulty will be extremely forgiving.

Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to run out of health potions, just like how it's possible to barely scrape past hard encounters (something that will happen much more frequently now that enemies don't scale to the player's level). Like I said before, it will be worse if an enemy scores a lucky crit.

And, again... Casual/Narrative difficulty. 

I understand some people did complain that DA:O's Casual difficulty was too hard. But if anyone can legitimately say that ME3's Narrative difficutly was too hard for them to play, then I doubt any gameplay design changes would have made it much better for them.

Wait. Wait. Wait. Who actually thought DAO casual was hard?

[The Hierophant]

esper wrote...

FO and TES are more open worlds than I hope that da will ever be.

And you didn't not fast travel to locations. You fast traveled to hubs. But you could alway only enter these area from one or two entry points.

Some of these hubs had sub-hubs. It would be like instead of the Deep Roads having several areas map it is now one large area and if you ran out of potions and healing just before the anvil you would have to after the healing in the camp. Start to work you way back to the anvil all the way from Orzommar. That means yes, going through all those areas once more. That would just be boring.

Despite it's limited range the team has shown that they're capable of implementing fast travel in the past DA games. On the flipside the devs would be shooting themselves in the foot if they repeat the same mistake Capcom did with vanilla Dragon's Dogma FT system.

Thanks for the reminder about DA's bare bones FTS, as i felt something was off by including it.

[Xilizhra]

So, what? Did they have too many good ideas, so they had to throw in a really, really stupid one to balance it out?

[Fast Jimmy]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They didn't announce permadeath. It isn't like having anyone in combat falling is going to be an instant Game Over screen.

Good for them?

Come on, people. If you are REALLY that worried about a system that doesn't automatically heal all wounds after every fight, I guarantee the Casual/Narrative difficulty will be extremely forgiving.

Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to run out of health potions, just like how it's possible to barely scrape past hard encounters (something that will happen much more frequently now that enemies don't scale to the player's level). Like I said before, it will be worse if an enemy scores a lucky crit.

And, again... Casual/Narrative difficulty. 

I understand some people did complain that DA:O's Casual difficulty was too hard. But if anyone can legitimately say that ME3's Narrative difficutly was too hard for them to play, then I doubt any gameplay design changes would have made it much better for them.

Wait. Wait. Wait. Who actually thought DAO casual was hard?

http://www.escapistm...er-Than-Origins

[Fast Jimmy]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what? Did they have too many good ideas, so they had to throw in a really, really stupid one to balance it out?

That had to be it. 

[The Hierophant]

No auto regen after combat is a stupid idea?

[AlanC9]

Bleachrude wrote...

If, for some insane reason, mana does, all this means is that "casuals" will always bring a healer and simply stand in place and simply heal everyone once they have suffificent mana....

Would they do that? Or just ragequit because standing around is boring? I imagine the system will have to just go away at lower difficulty levels.

[LPPrince]

There's probably gear that allows health regen.

Regardless, I think its cool. Health potions for all!

[Fast Jimmy]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

If, for some insane reason, mana does, all this means is that "casuals" will always bring a healer and simply stand in place and simply heal everyone once they have suffificent mana....

Would they do that? Or just ragequit because standing around is boring? I imagine the system will have to just go away at lower difficulty levels.

Or damage is reduced, so that healing doesn't need to happen after every fight.

In fact, that may just be the case ANYWAY, on standard difficulty levels. 

People are acting like games, games that have come out in the past 18 months even, haven't included this as a premise and still done absolutely fine in terms of combat balancing in most cases. That some people view this as a neccessary crutch to gaming is starting to become a little alarming.

[Bleachrude]

LPPrince wrote...

There's probably gear that allows health regen.

Regardless, I think its cool. Health potions for all!

Good grief, I hope not.

As mentioned by another poster, in BG2, you played a game of "pass the ring" along which no matter how you slice it, sounds and looks incredibly dumb one you imagine it....

Makes me think of a group of addicts passing a crack pipe among themselves....

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You will hop right back up after battle, but just with very little health. Expecting anything else with the cinematic focus of Bioware games is a little silly and alarmist for no reason whatsoever.

Alarmist? What if I like the idea? :/ Not saying I'd want to go as far as permadeath per se, but carrying stabilized but unconscious companions for lack of any way to heal them, sure.

Hush, Filament. You're scaring people.

[Volus Warlord]

Eh. It may not be as bad as you guys make it out to be. As long as it's not painful. Meaning as long as I don't have to do things like stripping down to run as fast as possible out of caves in Oblivion.

I mean, I did like ME3's system of partial regeneration. it punished you for being careless or hasty much more than full regen does. Made you think tactical. A limitation that forced you to use the game's mechanics rather than going CoD mode. So if they take that and progress it to meet Dragon Age, it may not be too bad. They take away health regen to force you to utilize classes and abilities that you otherwise wouldn't need if you had it. As long as it's more about the utilize than about the force, and as long as it doesn't make so that there is only one way to play, it's good.

Worse comes to worse, have health regen on stupid level difficulty. I'll give them the benefit of a doubt on this one.

[Xilizhra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

If, for some insane reason, mana does, all this means is that "casuals" will always bring a healer and simply stand in place and simply heal everyone once they have suffificent mana....

Would they do that? Or just ragequit because standing around is boring? I imagine the system will have to just go away at lower difficulty levels.

Or damage is reduced, so that healing doesn't need to happen after every fight.

In fact, that may just be the case ANYWAY, on standard difficulty levels. 

People are acting like games, games that have come out in the past 18 months even, haven't included this as a premise and still done absolutely fine in terms of combat balancing in most cases. That some people view this as a neccessary crutch to gaming is starting to become a little alarming.

Why is it a necessary or even idea to remove this? Health regeneration is only practical.

[Bleachrude]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 That some people view this as a neccessary crutch to gaming is starting to become a little alarming.

I take issue with the idea of "crutch". A crutch implies that without it, the game would not be playable by a section of the intended audience....The Geth Juggernaut in ME MP is a crutch since it allows people to play
the higher levels (gold and platinum) that they can't manage.

It's quite easy to compensate for the lack of out of combat healing if we go by the options we have so far in the previous 2 installments. The issue I have and one that many in this thread raise (and one that I actually haven't seen countered) is how does instead of brewing/buying 2-3 potions, you make the game more tactical by making them buy 20 to 30 potions per tavern visit.

It's not exactly HARD to click 18 more times...

That's NOT tactical in the least and that's what most "don't regenerate HP outside of combat" has meant in the past...

Again, I'll state thhat I do think non regneration is perfectly fine for a game where getting hit is completely under your control but in a stat based game? As long as the opposition has the possibility to do damage, no amount of tactics will beat the will of the luck gods.