1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Am1vf]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

 I think I found a visual representation of what some here seem to fear form the absence of health regen:(...)
by NanoeTetsu 

Without permadeath, this isn't even possible. 

We don't know how this will work, but one can easily still assume characters will hop right back up after combat is done... just with very little health and maybe an injury.

I imagined they were just unconcius since non-tutorial companions are all immortal.

There is still a WORLD of difference between "health doesn't regenerate after every battle to 100%" and "if you fall in combat, that character is a dead body you have to drag around until you can get to a town/inn/temple." 

Bioware would not commit to such a model. What if you are in the last dungeon of the game and the PC falls in combat? Will you do all the end game cutscenes passed out? Of course not.

You will hop right back up after battle, but just with very little health. Expecting anything else with the cinematic focus of Bioware games is a little silly and alarmist for no reason whatsoever.

Let me make this as clear as I can: I don't think this is going to happen and I am in favor of no health regen. I just thought this picture could illustrate what those complaining about backtracking feared.

[LadyRaena13]

Ok I didn't read through all these pages but I have a question... If there is no health regen does that mean that there's still a cooldown for potions???

[Realmzmaster]

metatheurgist wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Some posters are saying that kind of stuff is tedium and a fun killer. Well for me the lack of that stuff is a fun killer. Combat and dungeon delving is all about survival and good planning.

For me those details are the difference between an RPG and an action game. It's looking like DA:I will be an RPG. I didn't buy DA2 but DA:I is looking like a purchase.

AlanC9 wrote...
People really stuck with 2E?

There's a core of players that refused to go to the complexity of 3rd. I don't think it's a large population but they're there.

The population is large enough that WotC is reprinting 2E.

[Fast Jimmy]

LadyRaena13 wrote...

Ok I didn't read through all these pages but I have a question... If there is no health regen does that mean that there's still a cooldown for potions???

Query Unknown.

[The Hierophant]

LadyRaena13 wrote...

Ok I didn't read through all these pages but I have a question... If there is no health regen does that mean that there's still a cooldown for potions???

I hope not. I pray the team uses an alternative method to balancing potion guzzling, like diminished returns for health gains with each successive potion under a certain time frame.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 08 août 2013 - 05:22 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Bleachrude wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 That some people view this as a neccessary crutch to gaming is starting to become a little alarming.

I take issue with the idea of "crutch". A crutch implies that without it, the game would not be playable by a section of the intended audience....The Geth Juggernaut in ME MP is a crutch since it allows people to play
the higher levels (gold and platinum) that they can't manage.

It's quite easy to compensate for the lack of out of combat healing if we go by the options we have so far in the previous 2 installments. The issue I have and one that many in this thread raise (and one that I actually haven't seen countered) is how does instead of brewing/buying 2-3 potions, you make the game more tactical by making them buy 20 to 30 potions per tavern visit.

It's not exactly HARD to click 18 more times...

That's NOT tactical in the least and that's what most "don't regenerate HP outside of combat" has meant in the past...

Again, I'll state thhat I do think non regneration is perfectly fine for a game where getting hit is completely under your control but in a stat based game? As long as the opposition has the possibility to do damage, no amount of tactics will beat the will of the luck gods.

Because if you buy 20 potions, you can't buy that new shiny sword. Or that accessory that makes your spells go BOOM louder. Or give 1 sovereign to that starving veteran in the street.

It will make money an actual factor in the DA games, as opposed to just a number that grows constantly with only four or five things in the game worth actually buying. In my estimation, at least.

[Realmzmaster]

Many posters have stated that those who play casually would simply go to the inn and buy 20 or 30 health potions which is perfectly fine. Now some strategic and tactical thinking has to come into play with regards to money management.
Do you buy the health potions or that shiny new armor, weapon or accessory? I hope Bioware sets up the inventory of the stores so that only a limited amount of healing potions are available at any given time. Any other healing potions must be taken off the enemy or crafted. The crafting system would require the finding of the ingredients like in DAO and a herbalism skill to craft potions.

I would not mind seeing a crafting system like in Kingdoms of Amalur.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Hierophant wrote...

LadyRaena13 wrote...

Ok I didn't read through all these pages but I have a question... If there is no health regen does that mean that there's still a cooldown for potions???

I hope not. I pray the team uses an alternative method to balancing potion guzzling, like diminished returns for health gains with each successive potion under a certain time frame.

This would be cool. The only problem that comes into play is what you make that time frame.

Is it thirty seconds? Then people will chug a potion, walk away from the game and grab a soda, rinse, lather, repeat.

Is it hours? Well, now we are running into abstratctions of time and how things happen within the game. There will be weather and day/night effects, but does that also mean a realistic time tracking? If so, will there be a way to make that clock jump forward? Say you want to visit somewhere at night, but it is high noon right now - you'd want a way to control that. 

So what would prevent someone from abusing said time mechanics to space out their potion drinking? 


I say the best way to do it is to make potions (or whatever healing items used) expensive, so that the player CAN heal any wounds they come across, but doing so will drain their pocket book. 




And now... a tangent about game difficulty is incoming.

Maybe multiple fights that either result in a lot of damage taken, companions falling  or even Game Over/Load screens should prompt the user to change the difficulty. In addition, prompts to INCREASE the difficulty level might be good too, for players who are getting through without any scratches and aren't on the highest difficulty.

And/or, possibly starting out Casual/Narrative for all players might not be a bad idea either? 

If the game loaded up on the easiest difficulty level (Casual or Narrative, what have you) and then, as the player progressed and did particularly well, the game would prompt them to increase the difficulty, with average players bumped up to the "Normal" difficulty range and veteran players making it to Hard or Nightmare, but the players who don't live for tactics or combat stay right where they started, unaware they were on the "easy" difficulty and keeping everyone's ego intact.

[Beerfish]

It will probably help push crafting as well. You may not be able to go back to town to fix thing sup but maybe you can get craft items on the run to make ointments, salves, potions. I hope you don;t have to go to town to some crafting booth to make things.

[NUM13ER]

Beerfish wrote...
It will probably help push crafting as well. You may not be able to go back to town to fix thing sup but maybe you can get craft items on the run to make ointments, salves, potions. I hope you don;t have to go to town to some crafting booth to make things.

Whilst I feel it will make potions less likely to be stocking up unused (I myself was guilty of this) which is a good thing, I must admit I'm not a big fan of crafting in games. I would make runes and such now and again, but having it become an essential part of the game as opposed to an ehancement, not that big on the notion.

If the crafting system had more depth on the other hand I might be inclined to give it a shot.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 08 août 2013 - 05:52 .

[Xilizhra]

This is still complete bull****... however, does health regenerate on lower difficulty levels still? I'm not quite sure.

[Pzykozis]

Filament wrote...

I take issue with framing either type of gameplay as "hard" or "easy." One requires you to consider more things in combat and out, but that in itself is not necessarily "hard." The other is designed knowing you'll be at full health for every combat, so each encounter can be more tightly balanced and they could all throw the big guns at you.

As far as RNG being incompatible with no regen-- FTL: Faster Than Light is based entirely on stats and regeneration is a lot more limited than DA will ever be with potions, and you can't save the game. Yet it's amazing. Disabling enemy weapons, upgrading your shields, getting defense drones to shoot down shield-piercing rockets- there are tons of things you can do to minimize damage taken and help you stay alive through the long haul. Yea, sometimes enemies are absurdly well equipped or hit just the right parts of your ship to unexpectedly tear you apart, but there's still a vast difference between how survivable you are overall when you understand how to avoid damage than when you don't.

Thanks for bringing that up, my preferences lie with the latter which is why I'm not a massive fan of this change, also im not a massive fan of economy and inventory management which this change also seems to force. But Ill wait and see.

As for FTL it was likewise, I personally found that game hideous, though that wasnt so much to do with the no regen and fairly irregular repairs if you're unlucky and more the game itself, but its another case of it might have worked for you but others probably hated it.

[Bleachrude]

Xilizhra wrote...

This is still complete bull****... however, does health regenerate on lower difficulty levels still? I'm not quite sure.

No one knows really...

We're months away fom finding out conclusively how health and mana will work in and out of combat...

All we know is AS OF THE TIME game informer did the piece (which means it probably is still open to change), health does not regnerate...no idea if it's just one difficulty level or across every difficulty level...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The population is large enough that WotC is reprinting 2E.

I got the reprints for Father's Day.  Best Father's Day ever.

metatheurgist wrote...

There's a core of players that refused to go to the complexity of 3rd. I don't think it's a large population but they're there.

It's not entirely about complexity.  3E did not, for example, adequately replace dual-classing. If you had a dual-classed character in 2nd edition, converting him to 3E nerfed him horribly.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 août 2013 - 06:25 .

[AlanC9]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Because if you buy 20 potions, you can't buy that new shiny sword. Or that accessory that makes your spells go BOOM louder. Or give 1 sovereign to that starving veteran in the street.

It will make money an actual factor in the DA games, as opposed to just a number that grows constantly with only four or five things in the game worth actually buying. In my estimation, at least.

The economy probably needs its own thread.

I agree that there's not much point buying any item that isn't top-tier in DA:O unless you're trying to fill out an item set. You still have costs for better recipes and alchemical components ( varies depending on how into traps and whatnot you are). This isn't all that different from any other fantasy game. But there are enough top-tier items to suck out most of the gold by the endgame, IIRC.

[abnocte]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 That some people view this as a neccessary crutch to gaming is starting to become a little alarming.

I take issue with the idea of "crutch". A crutch implies that without it, the game would not be playable by a section of the intended audience....The Geth Juggernaut in ME MP is a crutch since it allows people to play
the higher levels (gold and platinum) that they can't manage.

It's quite easy to compensate for the lack of out of combat healing if we go by the options we have so far in the previous 2 installments. The issue I have and one that many in this thread raise (and one that I actually haven't seen countered) is how does instead of brewing/buying 2-3 potions, you make the game more tactical by making them buy 20 to 30 potions per tavern visit.

It's not exactly HARD to click 18 more times...

That's NOT tactical in the least and that's what most "don't regenerate HP outside of combat" has meant in the past...

Again, I'll state thhat I do think non regneration is perfectly fine for a game where getting hit is completely under your control but in a stat based game? As long as the opposition has the possibility to do damage, no amount of tactics will beat the will of the luck gods.

Because if you buy 20 potions, you can't buy that new shiny sword. Or that accessory that makes your spells go BOOM louder. Or give 1 sovereign to that starving veteran in the street.

It will make money an actual factor in the DA games, as opposed to just a number that grows constantly with only four or five things in the game worth actually buying. In my estimation, at least.

This, a hundred times.

One of my major gripes with Bioware games is that I can go through their games without ever buying a damn potion/armor/sword.

Everything I ever needed I found through looting, then they added crafting and buying potions became meaningless, they removed resting and then renting a room wasn't needed.

If I don't need to use money to get things my party needs why implement money at all?

[lady_v23]

I'm not sure I like this. I always plays casual, I love the godlike power.

[Ziggeh]

abnocte wrote...
If I don't need to use money to get things my party needs why implement money at all?

I'd remove it. (But then I'd also remove loot and the inventory).

Consumables should be a finite resource, and that's easier to control without cash. Buying gear is always problematic due to the potential for a replacement to drop from the next thing you hit with it. It just leads to a series of uninformed decisions, and I can't stand those.

[Bleachrude]

As AlanC9 says, the economy is another whole thread...

But it comes down to..."which do you prefer...finding awesome loot or getting money to BUY that awesome gear".

[SlottsMachine]

lady_v23 wrote...

I'm not sure I like this. I always plays casual, I love the godlike power.

Yeah. More developers need to follow Fallout: New Vegas, in how they incorporated an optional Hardcore mode. 

[Volus Warlord]

LindsayLohan wrote...

>No health regen
>Add permadeath tbh.

Ever play NV on hardcore?

[abnocte]

Ziggeh wrote...

abnocte wrote...
If I don't need to use money to get things my party needs why implement money at all?

I'd remove it. (But then I'd also remove loot and the inventory).

I'd keep it and redesign the game with it in mind.

I feel that if we start removing things like these, the game will be nothing more than a sequence of combats encounters interrupted by some cinematics instead of a breathing world we can experience.

( Yeah, we could argue that that's what it has been so far, but I would like to think that the goal is to offer us the later ... )

Ziggeh wrote...
Consumables should be a finite resource, and that's easier to control without cash. Buying gear is always problematic due to the potential for a replacement to drop from the next thing you hit with it. It just leads to a series of uninformed decisions, and I can't stand those.

It annoys me too. I always end up not buying any gear.

Modifié par abnocte, 08 août 2013 - 07:46 .