1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I don't mind all this (no regen, camping w/ food requirements) being non-compulsory.

Just have them as default settings, then have a "casual" toggle to disable them. Everybody wins.

Meh, a toggle would imply that they'd need to balance the later encounters if one played casual-nightmare. Same argument for a "hardcore" toggle.

Just tie in regenerative health with the casual difficulty and everyone is happy, those who want to play the game and strategize can manage resources and those who want the story and don't want to manage their characters or supplies can just breeze through the game and experience the story at their leisure.

Which is the best of both worlds, as you can switch to casual for the pure purposes of regenerating health, then go back to Normal or whatever.

[Dirty Whore]

health regen is for kindergartners and degenerate gamers...this is a good call on BioWares behalf.

watch them "fix it" in the first patch.



MODEDIT: Stop responding to this post please.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 09 août 2013 - 05:59 .

[EvilChani]

General Slotts wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

I'm not sure I like this. I always plays casual, I love the godlike power.

Yeah. More developers need to follow Fallout: New Vegas, in how they incorporated an optional Hardcore mode. 

Agreed. I think that would pacify all of the people who want the game to be nothing but constant and practically impossible battles where your character is handicapped to the point where even the lowest level enemies provide a challenge. Bioware should make hardcore/insanity levels like that in all of their games, though, if I had to bet, people would still complain that they were only dying every ten minutes and that it was too 'easy'...plus, they will never be happy as long as there is a casual/easy level where people aren't constantly dying and frustrated by the difficulty. 

[Allan Schumacher]

It seems we have finally been heard.

Note that a comment like this is actually comes across as patronizing. You've always been heard, and it always gets discussed during development (even DA2). The combat system is still under heavy iteration and we're looking on making sure that it's fun without being aggravating. Clearly there's two sides to the camp on this issue, and I can understand both perspectives.

As a game player, I have little invested in "health regen vs. no health regen" because to me it just means that encounters get played differently. There are advantages/disadvantages to both. If you were to force me to choose one, I probably have a slight leaning towards no health regen, because with that I make the assumption that encounters get crafted in a more interesting way. Although this is just for CRPGs. For FPS games, I have actually come to appreciate health regen more, since I like the intensity of each encounter and set piece.

I think it's a delicate balancing act between ensuring that there's a fun, strategic element to combat and general gameplay, without making the system appear aggravating.

Some advantages of health regeneration come down to reducing degenerate gameplay (i.e. various tedium). While some people like the tedium, I also don't consider it a good thing if the player can get themselves into a place where the game progress is now halted as they're effectively blocked by a situation where their party will wipe.

One advantage of no health regen is that a smaller encounter can still be meaningful. Encounters that don't threaten the entire party are no threat with health regen, and as such is also busy work for some, just a different type. With no health regen, a completely trivial encounter will exist more to literally display power (your character is now strong), while smaller encounters cannot be facerolled as there is still some level of a cost involved. For some people, they see this as "playing the game well" and they receive some level of reward for doing so (less resource consumption, both in game and outside of game).


So both "sides" of this discussion seek to ameliorate the tedious busy work that they don't like. It's just that both sides disagree on what the tedious busy work is.

We can try out some different ideas, however, because frankly I find that fun (as a developer), and while we may blow it and not satisfy people, there's also the idea that "Hey, we DID come up with something that works really well" that makes me excited. Ideally it's something that most people will gain enjoyment out of.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

EvilChani wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

I'm not sure I like this. I always plays casual, I love the godlike power.

Yeah. More developers need to follow Fallout: New Vegas, in how they incorporated an optional Hardcore mode. 

Agreed. I think that would pacify all of the people who want the game to be nothing but constant and practically impossible battles where your character is handicapped to the point where even the lowest level enemies provide a challenge. Bioware should make hardcore/insanity levels like that in all of their games, though, if I had to bet, people would still complain that they were only dying every ten minutes and that it was too 'easy'...plus, they will never be happy as long as there is a casual/easy level where people aren't constantly dying and frustrated by the difficulty. 

I like posts like this. Teeming with enough seething hate in the form of passive aggressive potshots, strawmen and flamebait, but docile and non-specific enough that it doesn't warrant a warning from the mods.

Congrats, you might be crap at playing games, but you certainly are skilled at playing the BSN.

I salute you.

[saMoorai]

David7204 wrote...

Me insult people? Are you incapable of reading? Or did you the miss the part of regenerating health being for 'degenerate gamers'?

You literally just insulted them.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

David, are you okay? I can sympathise with your position a bit, but you've been taking the angry pills today.

If you want, I could give your wall a lil lovin'.

[EvilChani]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ArenCordial wrote...

Well I think this means everyone will have 1 party slot reserved for mage.

+ 1 for rogues because you need them to open doors/find traps/pick locks.

Next, they'll add in a giant fist that appears beside you and punches you in the gonads every 5-10 minutes or so unless you have a warrior.

ROTFLMAO! I don't think you're too far from the truth.

As I said in another post, I wish Bioware would make the insanity level so damned impossible that whoever plays it, no matter how awesome they think they are, suffers a forced death in every single damned battle. I'm sure they'd love it....they could make it so that their health potions poison them, they are only allowed to fight with a twig they spend five hours tracking down in a forest, their PC is so weak that he/she gets dropped if someone even farts near them, and they only have a 1 in 100 chance of surviving every battle. Oh, and all of their companions die permanently if they get hit. Maybe then they'd be happy and the rest of us could play the game in a reasonable amount of time instead of spending three fricking hours to get through a battle that should take thirty seconds. Gaming is fun, and it's a recreational activity...I have a job and a life and don't have 1000 hours to play a game that should only take me 20, tops, but is drawn out because I'm constantly dropping dead or being forced to spend half an hour positioning my companions in a way that will keep me from dying and having to reload a save from an hour earlier. Blah!

[d-boy15]

I think it's better as optional (or at least have something to make it easier to play).

Not every player like to die again and again. Some just play for story especially in Bioware game.

[AresKeith]

Filament wrote...

Let's try to keep this about health regen and not about David and Dirty ****'s insults...

Uhh.

Yay, no health regen! Or something.

(and I love how just saying that user's name is an insult itself... but somehow that's kosher here)

(wait crap, health regen!!! x2)

I also wonder if we're gonna see the level of the enemy or find out the hard way

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

In all honesty, while I'm good with it, and like it even, this is a really odd old-timey gameplay mechanic to go back to, because even DA:O has health regen. I'm not really sure why they did it.

Neither am I.  It's entirely unexpected.

[Allan Schumacher]

As awesome as that sounds to me, I think if there was a rumbling about requiring characters to eat/keep rations for food, you'd see this entire forum meltdown in anti-grognard sentiment. At least, if this thread is any indication.

You'd see the people against it speak up more vocally, with the defenders of said choice speaking up in defense. Which is not uncommon on the BSN or the rest of the internet really. This board entering total meltdown is simply hyperbole, as this topic itself has a good amount of people that both support it and those that don't. (although the hyperbole does have a habit of unnecessarily escalating things).

Let them rumble, I was sufficiently butthurt after Dragon Age 2. It would be nice to see the shoe on the other foot.

Vindictiveness is so unbecoming. It sucks that you feel betrayed by DA2, but wanting others to feel the same isn't necessary. At worst DAI becomes a game you aren't interested in playing, at which point it's functionally no different than a game that doesn't exist at all.

[JWvonGoethe]

Currently playing Skyrim as a vampire, which means health doesn't regenerate. It was an interesting change to the gameplay at first (encouraging me to make my PC great at stealth), but it's become a bit of a pain after a while I have to admit.

That said, I don't really have any context for how the feature will sit in Inquisition. On its own, health regen (or the lack of it) is neither a good nor a bad thing. It's the mechanics and gameplay surrounding it that make all the difference (eg, do we get a lot of drain life abilities/healing spells; are there usually crafting resources around with which we can make health potions; how viable is it to stealth our way past enemies when health is low?)

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 09 août 2013 - 06:00 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vindictiveness is so unbecoming.

You are a funny guy.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 09 août 2013 - 06:02 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I openly acknowledge my own hypocrisy.

Still, as a gamer I don't wish anyone to feel "butthurt" over a game, so my point still stands

[AresKeith]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I openly acknowledge my own hypocrisy.

Still, as a gamer I don't wish anyone to feel "butthurt" over a game, so my point still stands

Wanna go stab some maps, might cheer you up some 

And the Maps can't regenerate health 

Modifié par AresKeith, 09 août 2013 - 06:04 .

[mp911]

a little worried but interested

[Realmzmaster]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It seems we have finally been heard.

Snip (removed so as not to make the response to large)

I did not mean to come across as patronizing. That was not my intent. I apologize if it sounded that way. I know the women and men at Bioware do listen to our concerns. I see this occurance as an outward acknowledgement of that listening along with other changes I saw in Legacy and MotA..

I agree with you that others may see it as tedium whereas I do not. I would be equally happy with a hardcore mode like Fallout: New Vegas. I await further information on the game over the next year.

[TheBlackBaron]

So what you're saying is I'm going to have to put the manufacturers of Heal potions kids through college and finance their vacation home again.

That's cool I guess. Better than Neverwinter's broke ass rest mechanics.

[Allan Schumacher]

Wanna go stab some maps, might cheer you up some

While I had some terse responses, I'm actually in a relatively decent mood. (I have certainly been on the BSN in a worse mood!)


Slight mod comment: I deleted a plethora of posts. And yes, I know what a plethora is.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vindictiveness is so unbecoming.

Vindictiveness is malicious.

Malice is literally the only thing I'm confident warrants the label "evil".  Malice intends only harm, and benefits no one.

That said, it's possible to want someone to suffer in the pursuit of some other end - to teach him a valuable lesson, perhaps.  But I wouldn't characterise that as vindictive, let alone malicious.

I shall now end this detour into ethical theory.

[zMataxa]

AresKeith wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I don't mind all this (no regen, camping w/ food requirements) being non-compulsory.

Just have them as default settings, then have a "casual" toggle to disable them. Everybody wins.

Meh, a toggle would imply that they'd need to balance the later encounters if one played casual-nightmare. Same argument for a "hardcore" toggle.

Just tie in regenerative health with the casual difficulty and everyone is happy, those who want to play the game and strategize can manage resources and those who want the story and don't want to manage their characters or supplies can just breeze through the game and experience the story at their leisure.

I agree with this

Assuming it isn't a "big " investment for the studio resource-wise - that would certainly cater to the 2 different levels.  I totatlly agree with the idea - if resources allow and if it's a priority ?! well time will tell.
Depends who Bioware is targeting for an audience.

[Realmzmaster]

EvilChani wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ArenCordial wrote...

Well I think this means everyone will have 1 party slot reserved for mage.

+ 1 for rogues because you need them to open doors/find traps/pick locks.

Next, they'll add in a giant fist that appears beside you and punches you in the gonads every 5-10 minutes or so unless you have a warrior.

ROTFLMAO! I don't think you're too far from the truth.

As I said in another post, I wish Bioware would make the insanity level so damned impossible that whoever plays it, no matter how awesome they think they are, suffers a forced death in every single damned battle. I'm sure they'd love it....they could make it so that their health potions poison them, they are only allowed to fight with a twig they spend five hours tracking down in a forest, their PC is so weak that he/she gets dropped if someone even farts near them, and they only have a 1 in 100 chance of surviving every battle. Oh, and all of their companions die permanently if they get hit. Maybe then they'd be happy and the rest of us could play the game in a reasonable amount of time instead of spending three fricking hours to get through a battle that should take thirty seconds. Gaming is fun, and it's a recreational activity...I have a job and a life and don't have 1000 hours to play a game that should only take me 20, tops, but is drawn out because I'm constantly dropping dead or being forced to spend half an hour positioning my companions in a way that will keep me from dying and having to reload a save from an hour earlier. Blah!

You mean that you have never played Bard's Tale I,II and III? The original Wizardry? Roguelikes? If someone will design the game you are suggesting I think I could find the time to play it!