1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

You never played KotOR or The Witcher? Of course, TW's regen is s slow that it maybe doesn't count; in many zones you end up playing as if Geralt doesn't regenerate because a wandering monster will come along before the regen gets you anywhere.

Although KOTOR only has Force regen.

[EvilChani]

AlanC9 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean that you have never played Bard's Tale I,II and III? The original Wizardry? Roguelikes? If someone will design the game you are suggesting I think I could find the time to play it!

Not everyone here's as old as us.

I'm willing to bet I'm older than you.  I still remember being amazed at Asteroids when it came out. And hell, I grew up in the arcade era. I was the Star Wars game master...nothing like watching the Death Star blow to smithereens. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

this and this

Another reason why I believe such a system would be good is because it gives an opportunity to make party members who are left behind more useful and/or give them prominence through encounters and events that can be tied back to their roles at camp, as opposed to a F/R mechanic.

The largest barrier to it would be determining whether or not we can come up with an implementation for it with our plan as scheduled, because we'd also need to account for potential iteration time in case execution proves a bit of a challenge.

But I do agree that the ideal is always that your in between combat actions (regardless of what they may be) still be something engaging. I think it'd still have to be something somewhat "minimalist" as the action would still be somewhat repetitive. But that's the type of thing that iteration is great for.

Having the mechanic be made abstract through the use of menus, static screens and the like work for me. I think it would be too time consuming if it were done manually (i.e having a camp map like in Origins, and manually assign tasks by talking to NPCs each time you want to rest/regenerate).

If you were able to control the whole process through menus, that would eliminate tedium while still encouraging some aspects of strategic and party management beyond the peeps you take with you for quests.

Then, you could introduce food/sleep requirements on top of that as an optional game mode, meaning that any game hunting that the party does is not for resources, trading and crafting, but also for survival.

It can also be a way to keep all party members combat ready, by introducing training and NPCs who can teach companions skills and let them gain exp off-screen.

Lots o' potential IMO.

[Bleachrude]

Fetunche wrote...

That's the thing that annoys me the most about DA having characters forced on you because your character isn't allowed to open locks.

And this is why I think non regen makes no sense...Contray to how it is presented here, no health regen has NEVER made a game harder I found...it has always made it more tedious as either you ga) o back to home base and get healed,  simply click on the screen and craft/buy extra potions or c) force you to take a certain class.

Again...not HARD in the slightest.

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...doesn't that discourage exploration since I assume Bioware is going to design encounters under the assumption that the party is at certain level of fitness and non-health regen plays merry havoc with that.

(I wonder if said supporters of no health regen ALSO support timed missions. Frankly, THAT makes more sense in a roleplaying/immersion context I find than the debate about health regen).

[Allan Schumacher]

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...

I'm not sure how the health mechanic affects this. In both cases, it means that if you've bit off more than you can chew, you disengage from the combat.

[EvilChani]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bottom line, I have no problem giving the elitists/masochists their cake, and think they should...but those of us who just want to have fun, enjoy the story, and get some stress relief by wiping the floor with our enemies and watching their heads come off in a big bloody splash (without having to plan or risk being forced to limp back to some town and collapse for three game days before we can venture out again, only to have our asses kicked again) should be able to enjoy some cake, too.

I would be surprised if this will not be possible in our game, regardless of our combat health mechanics. I get the impression (and I support) that BioWare looks to have difficulty levels that are more attuned to the "I really just like your stories" type of people, who are perfectly okay with their combat being heroic with a bunch of ultimate badasses.

The issue would be more along the lines of the people that prefer the encounter design of a game with regenerating health, and the challenge that comes with it. (I actually shared a video of me doing COD4's bonus mission on the hardest difficulty, and it was exhilarating to complete it with my adrenaline cranked to the max when I successfully did complete it. Even though I almost bought it twice. No health regen would've had me fail more sure, but that doesn't mean that the level itself isn't still challenging especially given the timer).

Holy crap! That looked like a nightmare! I'm impressed. Nice head shot on the guy holding the hostage, btw. It was funny that my first thought when you got to that part was: "Shoot the hostage!". 

I think the most my heart ever raced during a game was DA:O...the first time I played it through, I didn't know what ballistas were for and ended up fighting the Archdemon one on one to the bitter end, which took half an hour  (and I won, with Alistair, Wynne, and Zevran out in the first three minutes). I don't recommend trying that unless you like having heart palpitations...

[AresKeith]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...

I'm not sure how the health mechanic affects this. In both cases, it means that if you've bit off more than you can chew, you disengage from the combat.

I've been wondering how are we gonna know the level of the enemy?

[Realmzmaster]

EvilChani wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean that you have never played Bard's Tale I,II and III? The original Wizardry? Roguelikes? If someone will design the game you are suggesting I think I could find the time to play it!

Not everyone here's as old as us.

I'm willing to bet I'm older than you.  I still remember being amazed at Asteroids when it came out. And hell, I grew up in the arcade era. I was the Star Wars game master...nothing like watching the Death Star blow to smithereens. 

I was more into Space Invaders, but had my start with Pong back in 1972. Started playing text adventures with Adventure in 1976 and Zork in 1980 The first crpg I played was Akalabeth back in 1980.

[o Ventus]

AresKeith wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...

I'm not sure how the health mechanic affects this. In both cases, it means that if you've bit off more than you can chew, you disengage from the combat.

I've been wondering how are we gonna know the level of the enemy?

A number next to the nametag of the enemy?

"Hurlock [10]"?

[EvilChani]

Realmzmaster wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean that you have never played Bard's Tale I,II and III? The original Wizardry? Roguelikes? If someone will design the game you are suggesting I think I could find the time to play it!

Not everyone here's as old as us.

I'm willing to bet I'm older than you.  I still remember being amazed at Asteroids when it came out. And hell, I grew up in the arcade era. I was the Star Wars game master...nothing like watching the Death Star blow to smithereens. 

I was more into Space Invaders, but had my start with Pong back in 1972. Started playing text adventures with Adventure in 1976 and Zork in 1980 The first crpg I played was Akalabeth back in 1980.

Okay, you win. You're older than me.  

But, out of curiosity, did you ever play the Star Trek game? It was a DOS game (I can't remember the name) and you went into quadrants, praying you didn't get attacked by the bloody Romulans. I loved that game. Wish I could find it, but it was on floppy and I don't even have a floppy drive anymore!

[Realmzmaster]

AresKeith wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...

I'm not sure how the health mechanic affects this. In both cases, it means that if you've bit off more than you can chew, you disengage from the combat.

I've been wondering how are we gonna know the level of the enemy?

Why would you have to know? The game the Last Remnant has bosses and other special creatures whose health meters do not change. The only thing you see is question marks across the health bar. The only indication that the boss is close to dying is that the health bar starts to flash. The kicker is that the health bar flashes at one quarter of the hit point left.
Some of the bosses and special enemies can have 360,000 or more hit points not including the ones the Squad minions have.

[Allan Schumacher]

But, out of curiosity, did you ever play the Star Trek game? It was a
DOS game (I can't remember the name) and you went into quadrants,
praying you didn't get attacked by the bloody Romulans. I loved that
game. Wish I could find it, but it was on floppy and I don't even have a
floppy drive anymore!

Star Trek 25th Anniversary.

My own hypocrisy aside (deal with it DevSin!), we are probably sliding too far off topic now.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 09 août 2013 - 07:22 .

[VampireSoap]

I played DAO dozens of times, and I always finish the game on nightmare difficulty without using potions...And that's just because I felt like cheating whenever I use a potion in a game like this...

[Realmzmaster]

EvilChani wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean that you have never played Bard's Tale I,II and III? The original Wizardry? Roguelikes? If someone will design the game you are suggesting I think I could find the time to play it!

Not everyone here's as old as us.

I'm willing to bet I'm older than you.  I still remember being amazed at Asteroids when it came out. And hell, I grew up in the arcade era. I was the Star Wars game master...nothing like watching the Death Star blow to smithereens. 

I was more into Space Invaders, but had my start with Pong back in 1972. Started playing text adventures with Adventure in 1976 and Zork in 1980 The first crpg I played was Akalabeth back in 1980.

Okay, you win. You're older than me.  

But, out of curiosity, did you ever play the Star Trek game? It was a DOS game (I can't remember the name) and you went into quadrants, praying you didn't get attacked by the bloody Romulans. I loved that game. Wish I could find it, but it was on floppy and I don't even have a floppy drive anymore!

I do believe the name of the game was Super Star Trek. It first appeared in Creative Computing as a type in or you could buy the disk. It was to be available in a more modern form ported over to Visual Basic.net. See if this is what you remember.

sourceforge.net/projects/windowssst/ No files are available just screen shots

The original and updated version can be found Here:
www.almy.us/sst.html

There is also this page:
sst.berlios.de/

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 août 2013 - 07:52 .

[AlanC9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You never played KotOR or The Witcher? Of course, TW's regen is s slow that it maybe doesn't count; in many zones you end up playing as if Geralt doesn't regenerate because a wandering monster will come along before the regen gets you anywhere.

Although KOTOR only has Force regen.

True, but after the first few hours it doesn't matter since Force can be traded for health as soon as you rescue Bastila. Although a player who really wants to can refuse to take the force power on his PC and leave the other Jedi on the ship, I suppose.

[AlanC9]

Realmzmaster wrote...
 I do believe the name of the game was Super Star Trek. It first appeared in Creative Computing as a type in or you could buy the disk.

I actually have the Creative Computing best-of book with that code. IIRC it was so old that you couldn't expect a BASIC compiler to have trig functions yet, so the programmer had to roll his own with a Taylor series.

I played a version of it in high school on a mainframe with a teletype terminal. We didn't get CRTs until I was a junior.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 août 2013 - 07:55 .

[AlanC9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Personally, I'm still wondering how this works with non-level scaled monsters...

I'm not sure how the health mechanic affects this. In both cases, it means that if you've bit off more than you can chew, you disengage from the combat.

Assuming disengagement works. DAO, for example, has a nasty habit of locking doors behind you until the battle's over.

But yeah, the level scaling has nothing to do with it,except that you're somewhat more likely to run into overpowering monsters without scaling.

[Argahawk]

Allan don't say You thinking about there should be health regen in DA:I, as I said in my previous post game without it will be more interesting and more rewarding as there is nothing like be proud from ourselves when we be able to defeat that boss without loose any party member.

[Pzykozis]

Argahawk wrote...

Allan don't say You thinking about there should be health regen in DA:I, as I said in my previous post game without it will be more interesting and more rewarding as there is nothing like be proud from ourselves when we be able to defeat that boss without loose any party member.

But that's the same regardless, as far as I see it and my problem with the change comes down to without health regen you tend to have more meaningless steamrollish encounters dependant entirely on context but without vancian etc you can mop up more, whereas with health regen you focus more (hopefully) on tighter harder encounters because you're not saying oh we can't have an ambush here that'd drain some resources that they'll need further down the road, you're saying yeah lets have an assassin or two drop in behind them and stab the mage.

That's not to say that you can't have hard as nail encounters with no regen just that the change forces them to be fewer and far between, I prefer a peasant stabbing me in the back meaning game over to be honest.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 09 août 2013 - 08:10 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Assuming disengagement works.

Indeed.

[Allan Schumacher]

Argahawk wrote...

Allan don't say You thinking about there should be health regen in DA:I, as I said in my previous post game without it will be more interesting and more rewarding as there is nothing like be proud from ourselves when we be able to defeat that boss without loose any party member.

I'm a bit confused.  I'm not actually sure I stated any direction that DAI would go in, in this thread specifically, but rather talked about the various implications of the different systems.

[Argahawk]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I'm a bit confused.  I'm not actually sure I stated any direction that DAI would go in, in this thread specifically, but rather talked about the various implications of the different systems.

Sorry Allan, I must wrong interpretate last posts in this thread as was thinking alike You are more in for health regen. I think, that I need to read them again :innocent:

[Allan Schumacher]

For a game like DAI, from a gamer perspective I'd probably prefer no health regen.

From a developer perspective I'm more indifferent. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both, and there seems to be a divide as shown in this thread.

[Ziggeh]

Filament wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Assuming disengagement works.

Indeed.

Indeed it works or indeed it's an assumption?

It has to. Having to reload because you couldn't see the mobs level before rocking up would be horrible design.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 09 août 2013 - 09:09 .