1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

The Hierophant wrote...

Wouldn't there be workarounds for no auto regen after battle like unlocking passive abilities, and armor enchantments, or is auto regen completely scrapped?

Good question, is mana and stamina regen gone too?  Or reduced?  Or unchanged?

Either way, I can definitely see resource management being a much bigger factor. Players will have to be more cautious in battle. This isn't a bad thing, but a definite playstyle shift.  I'd be interested to hear more.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As I have said previously, as long as it is very hard for a person to paint themselves into a corner in this regard i am fine with it. You can't let the player get in a spot where they have saved the game and not realized they were about to be in a really bad spot resource wise and have to go back hours and hours for a save long ago.

This would definitely be my top concern as well.

Well it's a good thing I save often 

But not quicksaves, right? Those just make things worse since there's only one slot.

[AlanC9]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'm saying that, though it may cost time, time doesn't actually cost anything so essentially it's the same thing.

There could be a cost in boredom if the time taken is more than a few seconds.  Same cost as limiting resting via random encounters, really.

[Realmzmaster]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The minute you wait around a cost has been paid in time. DAO and DA2 has no cost not even in time that is the difference especially when some posters are complaining about having to wait.

That would be a fair point, if waiting around cost you anything in-game. But it doesn't. The Dragon Age games don't time tied to anything. As far as the story and world are concerned, when you're standing still Thedas is on pause. Nothing happens.

I'm saying that, though it may cost time, time doesn't actually cost anything so essentially it's the same thing.

No it does not just cost time in game but time out of game. You the player must wait until the Chi meter is full. That is one of the points that some posters in this thread are complaining about when it comes to resource management. I am not just talking about in game time. It also applies to the game as far as the player is concern because the player can get on with playing rather than waiting. That is opportunity cost.

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As I have said previously, as long as it is very hard for a person to paint themselves into a corner in this regard i am fine with it. You can't let the player get in a spot where they have saved the game and not realized they were about to be in a really bad spot resource wise and have to go back hours and hours for a save long ago.

This would definitely be my top concern as well.

Well, as far as dungeon crawl-type situations go, there could always be the "restart level" option the Mass Effect games had...

[The Hierophant]

Nerevar-as wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Wouldn't there be workarounds for no auto regen after battle like unlocking passive abilities, and armor enchantments, or is auto regen completely scrapped?

Some of the Avernum games had a skill that determined how much health and MP you got back after each combat. Otherwise it was potions or going into cities.

I wouldn't be surprised to see similar passive skills in Inquisition.

[The Hierophant]

iakus wrote...

Good question, is mana and stamina regen gone too?  Or reduced?  Or unchanged?

Either way, I can definitely see resource management being a much bigger factor. Players will have to be more cautious in battle. This isn't a bad thing, but a definite playstyle shift.  I'd be interested to hear more.

Agreed

[Realmzmaster]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

No it does not just cost time in game but time out of game. You the player must wait until the Chi meter is full. That is one of the points that some posters in this thread are complaining about when it comes to resource management. I am not just talking about in game time. It also applies to the game as far as the player is concern because the player can get on with playing rather than waiting. That is opportunity cost.

That's an additional step meta. By that token, it was the same way in DA: O--by the time you got to pretty high levels of mana/stamina and health, it would take several seconds--longer than the nearest enemy, in some cases--for it to refill. I distinctly recall waiting for Wynne and Morrigan's Mana levels to regenerate for like a minute or so, several times. That's time out-of-game too, in a system with health/mana/stamina regen. Similar situation.

I never said it was not, which is why it was changed in DA2 to instant for both.

[Sidney]

Really a bad mechanism. Felt it replaying BG2 on the iPad. Since you really can't not get hit (in other words good tactics can't save you) it turns the game into a long grind of fight, cast, cast, guzzle, rest...a lot of waiting and not a lot of playing.

What I really hate about it is it relies on the idea that health/hit points represent actual physical ability to absorb damage - as if you got hit by 4 arrows, 2 hammers and a sword and lived - insetad of being a measure of ability to dodge, parry, and just flat out luck.

[Realmzmaster]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I never said it was not, which is why it was changed in DA2 to instant for both.

But if there's a time cost, and that somehow translates into it not being a health regen system, are you suggesting that DA:O's time cost, the same thing as JE, means that DA:O's system is not health regen? It costs you out-of-game time, does it not? And that out-of-game time is, you're arguing, why JE's system isn't health regen.

Actually both the health and mana levels in DAO rengerated automatically. So the player could continue to explore while the meters click upward which happened every few seconds more so if you have armor or other equipment that boosted life or mana regen (like Lifegiver) . The party runs the risk of an encounter with lower health and mana (paying an opportunity cost that way or not).

If the player wanted to wait until the meters were full  for both the player could (paying the opportunity cost in time) or the player could wait until the Mana meter was sufficient to cast the healing spell to restore full health and then let mana continue to regenerate (paying the opportunity cost in Mana).

 Both health and mana regenerated in DAO. In Jade Empire only Chi regenerated.

The opportunity cost can be lessened in Jade Empire as in DAO by waiting until a sufficient amount of Chi was present to heal, but health itself did not regenerate like in DAO.

DA2 eliminated the need for any of it.

[karushna5]

Realmzmaster wrote...

No it is not a radically different playstyle for me. DAO and DA2 were radically different from the playstyle I had grown to love. That playstyle was taken away with DAO and DA2. I grew up with Wizardry, Ultima, Might & Magic, BG1 and BG2, NWN, NWN2, IWD 1 and 2, , TOEE (Temple of Elemental Evil), Pool of Radiance Myth Drannor, SSI Gold box game series, Bard's Tale I,II,III and others.

Bioware stripped out my playstyle from DAO and DA2 when it was present in their other games like BG1, BG2 and NWN.
I like having to worry about every little thing in combat. I like resource management. That is fun for me. I would not have less fun but more.
So for me and other posters in this thread it is going back to see an old friend that has been missing for a few years.

A bit melodramatic, you just admitted they were different play styles, and I want you to have them, although certainly Bioware isn't stripping now or then, my thing was some people will hate it some love it, I am happy you will love it, but I am saying some will hate it and that's understandable as the devs seem surprised at the reaction. But it is great you are getting your old friend, but many players will be unhappy to lose theirs, both are acceptable and understandable reactions.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Some games have more than one quicksave slot.

I played a CRPG in the past few years that had 4, but I can't recall what it was.  KoA:Reckoning, maybe?  Does anyone remember?

I recall that Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri has a whole bunch of auto-save slots, which was really nice.  There's always auto-saves from 1 turns ago, 2 turns ago, 3 turns ago, 5 turns ago, 10 turns ago, 20 turns ago - so you have to screw up really badly before you can't back up and try again.

SOME games even make a quicksave a normal save, which would probably actually be a bad idea in a sense

Why would that be bad?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Filament wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Assuming disengagement works.

Indeed.

It was based on this remark that I suggested the pre-encounter withdrawal as a possible implementation of disengagement.

AlanC9 wrote...

DAO, for example, has a nasty habit of locking doors behind you until the battle's over.

Something the game should never do.

[Realmzmaster]

karushna5 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

No it is not a radically different playstyle for me. DAO and DA2 were radically different from the playstyle I had grown to love. That playstyle was taken away with DAO and DA2. I grew up with Wizardry, Ultima, Might & Magic, BG1 and BG2, NWN, NWN2, IWD 1 and 2, , TOEE (Temple of Elemental Evil), Pool of Radiance Myth Drannor, SSI Gold box game series, Bard's Tale I,II,III and others.

Bioware stripped out my playstyle from DAO and DA2 when it was present in their other games like BG1, BG2 and NWN.
I like having to worry about every little thing in combat. I like resource management. That is fun for me. I would not have less fun but more.
So for me and other posters in this thread it is going back to see an old friend that has been missing for a few years.

A bit melodramatic, you just admitted they were different play styles, and I want you to have them, although certainly Bioware isn't stripping now or then, my thing was some people will hate it some love it, I am happy you will love it, but I am saying some will hate it and that's understandable as the devs seem surprised at the reaction. But it is great you are getting your old friend, but many players will be unhappy to lose theirs, both are acceptable and understandable reactions.

No Bioware did strip out the elements I like when moving from BG and NWN
to DA. Bioware positioned DA as the spiritual successor to BG as the
good doctors put it. It was not the spiritual successor in that it
adopted what many would call MMO concepts which was a departure from
what came before.
Yes, there was lots of discussion and many threads on the subject before DAO came out. So I ended up having to live with it.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 août 2013 - 11:13 .

[Fast Jimmy]

iakus wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As I have said previously, as long as it is very hard for a person to paint themselves into a corner in this regard i am fine with it. You can't let the player get in a spot where they have saved the game and not realized they were about to be in a really bad spot resource wise and have to go back hours and hours for a save long ago.

This would definitely be my top concern as well.

Well, as far as dungeon crawl-type situations go, there could always be the "restart level" option the Mass Effect games had...

I really like the idea PsychoBlonde suggested earlier of having a sort of crazy explosion of power if you're entire is near death, a sort of "break in case of emergency" ability that can seriously handicap the character until you get to a proper base/camp area, but would get you out of a jam and wipe out your competition/restore your party/etc.

Theoretically, you would get four of these a party, meaning you'd have four "get out of jail free" cards for any given dungeon, with your party being more handicapped after each use. With the rather easy task of gettig out of a dungeon with your party's healing supplies and  four emergency power usages, the number of people who would truly paint themselves in a corner would be few and far between.

And honestly, if you have used two of your emergency powers and haven't gotten through the dungeon, I'd say it may be not a bad idea to drop the difficulty. Use of emergency powers could even be a factor in if the game prompts you to lower or increase the difficulty like I had suggested a few pages back as well. 

[ChaosMorning]

Generally I choose casual or normal (I usually play for the story more than the battle mechanics) so I hope that at least casual will have auto health regeneration.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

This is kind of off-topic, but you know what I want? I want friendly fire back. It made a spell like Tempest truly dangerous to use around your people. It kind of annoys me in DA ][.

It really annoyed me in DA2.  I modded the game to put friendly fire back in at lower difficult levels (which happened to make the game absurdly difficult, as the glancing blows that melee friendly fire produced are vastly more dangerous on lower difficult levels.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I didn't know "glancing blows" was even a thing. Probably because I've never played a Warrior--unless that happens for rogues, too.

DA2 doesn't have misses.  Every attack is either a hit or a glancing blow.  Melee friendly fire was always glancing blows.

However, how much damage a glancing blow did was affected by the difficulty setting.  On Nightmare (where there was friendly fire) glancing blows did only 10% damage.  But on Normal, they did 50% damage.  As such, melee friendly fire on Normal was vastly more dangerous than melee friendly fire on Nightmare.