1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Bleachrude wrote...

Er...I think there is no fundamental difference between the two. The JE system is a prime example of "busywork". Basically, the only difference is that you have to hit one key (heal) after your blue is refilled and then wait once against for it to refill...

I really hope the system in DA:I is nothing like that...

I don't think the Chi automatically refilled, did it?  Not in my (PC) version anyway.  So waiting wouldn't do you much good.

Of course, it still did amount to busywork, but that busywork was either going back to one of those meditation thingummies or keeping the last enemy alive and then using spirit thief to refresh your bar.

[Maria Caliban]

You could get Chi a number of ways in Jade Empire.

1. During combat, an enemy might drop a Chi orb when you beat them.
2. The spirit thief style allowed you to 'rob' enemies of chi.
3. If you put Dawn Star in support mode during combat, she'd help you regenerate chi.
4. Some of the gems increased the chances an enemy would drop a chi orb.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 août 2013 - 10:56 .

[Fast Jimmy]

If you couldn't literally stand still out of combat and regenerate Chi, then I would say its not equivalent to auto regen.


This side convo has reminded how long its been since I played that game and how much I don't remember.

[golak]

Jayne126 wrote...

Excellent.

[Provi-dance]

This is great news. No level scaling being the other marvellous piece of info.


No health regeneration, as has been said, adds a layer of strategy and planning to the game and I believe this is something Bioware RPGs truly need. I love the whole camping thing, after a bunch of exhausting encounters and journeys.
Also, the absence of auto-regen makes weaker encounters relevant too, and that's wonderful.

[CARL_DF90]

I myself have mixed feelings about this. The pros and cons have been discussed and debated enough without having to do a rehash, but one thing I hope they do as development continues is at least add the potential for a partial health regen to be achieved once you reach the higher levels. Example, there is zero health regen for levels 1-29, but at level 30 you gain a 10% health regen, which increases by 1% for every new level until you reach hypothetical level cap 60. With that kind of system in place you still maintain the original intent while giving the player an added sense of achievement, and strengthening and improving their party. Just my two cents.

[Fast Jimmy]

CARL_DF90 wrote...

I myself have mixed feelings about this. The pros and cons have been discussed and debated enough without having to do a rehash, but one thing I hope they do as development continues is at least add the potential for a partial health regen to be achieved once you reach the higher levels. Example, there is zero health regen for levels 1-29, but at level 30 you gain a 10% health regen, which increases by 1% for every new level until you reach hypothetical level cap 60. With that kind of system in place you still maintain the original intent while giving the player an added sense of achievement, and strengthening and improving their party. Just my two cents.

This is not a bad suggestion, but I would say maybe make it its own skill/class ability rather than a set given at certain levels. That way, someone may opt to make their warrior a high-defense tank, or a tank that has HP regen abilities. Both would obviously sacrifice doing more damage. Etc.

[CARL_DF90]

@ Fast Jimmy

Which would add another layer of strategy. Good catch.

[Maconbar]

My primary concern with games that don't have some level of health regeneration is that They commonly result in lots of downtime and loading screens. With KotOR on Taris or Dantooine, I would periodically fast travel back to home base to heal and then fast travel back. Loading screens don't appeal to me. In Morrowind, Oblivian, and Skyrim, I never really enjoyed watching the screen countdown the hours resting while in an inn. This doesn't make me a fan of The approach used in DA:2.

[Realmzmaster]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You could get Chi a number of ways in Jade Empire.

1. During combat, an enemy might drop a Chi orb when you beat them.
2. The spirit thief style allowed you to 'rob' enemies of chi.
3. If you put Dawn Star in support mode during combat, she'd help you regenerate chi.
4. Some of the gems increased the chances an enemy would drop a chi orb.

So chi does not automatically regenerate in Jade Empire. So DAO was the first Bioware game with Health and Mana regeneration.

[Sir JK]

Non-regenerating health?

Interesting. Certainly a big change from the other two games... I feel it could be a good one or a very bad one... depending entirely on implementation. It'll certainly make exploring slightly more interesting I feel, since it creates that sensation of danger and challenge.

I could also see it creatin encounters working in conjunction with one another. Put real value in ambushes and rear or advance-guard tactics of the enemy and the strategic element in managing your party is not something entirely unwelcome as far s I'm concerned.

The real pitfalls, I feel, lies in managing it. As has been mentioned, it can absolutely not be allowed to easily and without warning lead to players painting themselves into a corner. Reloading large segments of a game is a huge mood killer and has led me to abandon games for years before I try again. And carrying on with little resources is really something I feel only people confident in their skill enjoys... and I am not one of them.

I also feel that inventory management is not terribly entertaining. It's not that I don't like managing resources, I generally greatly appriciate games built around that (such as the Stronghold series) but I feel that many rpgs handle it in such uninteresting and clumsy ways. Scavenging shops for every last potion or carefully trudging around the edges of maps for every last herbs are really terrible ideas.

And standing around to wait for the manapool to fill up is even worse.

But assuming the game has solutions for that, whether that is interesting resource management, plenty of tools to keep health up or special emergency powers or whatever, then I am all for this game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well I shared this thread with Mike so at the very least he's aware (he wasn't surprised, so take that how you will).

Aware of what, I wonder.  That this significant change in design makes us both excited and nervous?  Really, that's how we should respond to all design announcements.

Until we see the specifics if the implementation, we can't know whether anything is going to work out to our satisfaction, but nor can we be confident that it will not.

We're uncertain.  Hopeful.  But wary.

Personally, I think this is terrific news, though it could also be misleading.

We should wait and see.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well I shared this thread with Mike so at the very least he's aware (he wasn't surprised, so take that how you will).

Aware of what, I wonder.  That this significant change in design makes us both excited and nervous?  Really, that's how we should respond to all design announcements.

Until we see the specifics if the implementation, we can't know whether anything is going to work out to our satisfaction, but nor can we be confident that it will not.

We're uncertain.  Hopeful.  But wary.

Personally, I think this is terrific news, though it could also be misleading.

We should wait and see.

I think Allan was relating the exact nature of people's concern/excitement. Saying "some people love it, others hate it, as per usual" would be, while likely accurate, pretty worthless. 

And, upon further retrospection, I guess you were asking Allan for the exact details reported? In which case... I'll just be in the corner over here. 

[Zeldrik1389]

Imo, It's too early to say. We still don't know how the actual system will work so it's pretty much just guesses at this point. I think let just keep our finger crossed and wait 'til they show us real gameplay.

[Tvorceskiy]

I think no health regen is awesome. Very immursive IMO. Maybe one of the standard skills for each class will be first aid (ala DAO)? Or perhaps increasing wisdom/dexterity/what have you will increase your survivability or the effectiveness of poultices.

Personally I always keep a balanced party so I see no problem with the concept as a whole.

[Zevais]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

I didn't have an opinion on this before, but now that I think about it...

I rather the game be difficult for the battles themselves rather than the handicap of a health bar.

I agree with this. The ONLY thing NO HEALTH REGENERATION will do is make the game unnecessarily LONGER for no productive reason. I have limited free time to play games. I don't want to waste a good portion of my gameplay crafting potions or casting health spells when there is NO battle involved, and I am simply walking between environments. This is a useless throwback to me.

I don't want to waste my gold buying potions for this pointless endeavour nor relegate myself to reserving one party spot for a healer at ALL times. IF this turns out to be implemented, it would seriously hurt the replayability for me because I will get sick of playing much more quickly.

[Face of Evil]

I'm not really keen on the idea of removing health regeneration, as I really don't care to spend hours hunting for health potions or crafting. My enthusiasm for Inquisition is actually starting to drain a bit.

I guess I'm playing the "wait-and-see" game now.

[Dubozz]

Health not regenerating. 34 pages. Why the f*** is this so important?

[Ziggeh]

Dubozz wrote...

Health not regenerating. 34 pages. Why the f*** is this so important?

It fundamentally changes the combat.

This may seem weird, but people posting on a games forum a interested in it's gameplay.

[Dubozz]

How it will change the gameplay if health didn't regen in any other game in the series while in combat by itself? It changes nothing.

Modifié par Dubozz, 11 août 2013 - 01:48 .

[Ziggeh]

Dubozz wrote...

How it will change the gameplay if health didn't regen in any other game in the series while in combat by itself?

If only there were some sort of place you could read a discussion on this very issue to find the answer to your question.

[Shevy]

Ziggeh wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Health not regenerating. 34 pages. Why the f*** is this so important?

It fundamentally changes the combat.

This may seem weird, but people posting on a games forum a interested in it's gameplay.

It's refreshing to actually have many pages to read about gameplay features, since I'm not interested in in-game romances at all and thus haven't had many things to read here.

I'm pro to no health regeneration as long as your mana regeneration is very slow or you are prevented to heal yourself outside of combat with spells because it would make the system worthless.


With health regeneration every encounter has to be challenging in a way that your party can actually wipe on it or combat ends just being uninteresting and boring work.

Without it, even small fights can make an impact if you are not concentrated or making faults. The only downside I see is to prevent situations in which a player ends in a dead end so to speak, with no potions, no way back and no chance to win the encounter. His only option would be a reload, which with only 1 autosave can result in hours lost.
I would suggest at least 3 autosaves.

[Maria Caliban]

Dubozz wrote...

How it will change the gameplay if health didn't regen in any other game in the series while in combat by itself? It changes nothing.

Translation: No, I haven't read any of the pages in this thread. I can't be bothered to do so because my time is important. Your time isn't important though, so please write out a detailed post explaining the issue.

I will then write out a one sentence reply along the lines of 'That's stupid and you're all stupid.'