1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubozz]

Ziggeh wrote...

Dubozz wrote...
How it will change the gameplay if health didn't regen in any other game in the series while in combat by itself?

If only there were some sort of place you could read a discussion on this very issue to find the answer to your question.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

How it will change the gameplay if health didn't regen in any other game in the series while in combat by itself? It changes nothing.

Translation: No, I haven't read any of the pages in this thread. I can't be bothered to do so because my time is important. Your time isn't important though, so please write out a detailed post explaining the issue. 

I will then write out a one sentence reply along the lines of 'That's stupid and you're all stupid.'

Apparently being a smart*** is something new and intelligent.

Shevy_001 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Health not regenerating. 34 pages. Why the f*** is this so important?

It fundamentally changes the combat.

This may seem weird, but people posting on a games forum a interested in it's gameplay.

It's refreshing to actually have many pages to read about gameplay features, since I'm not interested in in-game romances at all and thus haven't had many things to read here.

I'm pro to no health regeneration as long as your mana regeneration is very slow or you are prevented to heal yourself outside of combat with spells because it would make the system worthless.


With health regeneration every encounter has to be challenging in a way that your party can actually wipe on it or combat ends just being uninteresting and boring work.

Without it, even small fights can make an impact if you are not concentrated or making faults. The only downside I see is to prevent situations in which a player ends in a dead end so to speak, with no potions, no way back and no chance to win the encounter. His only option would be a reload, which with only 1 autosave can result in hours lost.
I would suggest at least 3 autosaves.

Thanks for you thoughtful post good sir.  Still it's not a big deal at all, health regenerating by itself - fine, forget about healers, use pots. Health is not regenerating - take a healer and/or some health pots. Forgot to buy bots? Too bad - it's rpg man. And let's not forget about tactical pause -  which trivializes combat even more. So why exactly is this a big deal again? It's not Wow or other mmo when you may fight with some heroic boss for 15 minutes in real time and one mistake will be equal to wipe. 

Modifié par Dubozz, 11 août 2013 - 02:22 .

[Face of Evil]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I don't understand how removing health regen means that you spend hours hunting for potions. The few games i've played without it--Bioware's Sonic game, FF III, FF VII, Hammer and Sickle, etc--you didn't scrounge around for potions. You just had to be more careful.

My experience has been the opposite. No health regen equals tedious out-of-combat healing, usually involving loads of potions, or frequent trips back to the Trauma Inn.

I haven't soured totally on the series, but I'm not as enthused as I was before.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 11 août 2013 - 02:23 .

[Maconbar]

EntropicAngel wrote...

My experience has been the opposite. No health regen equals tedious out-of-combat healing, usually involving loads of potions, or frequent trips back to the Trauma Inn.

How have I missed this trope until now? DA:I should really have a spa for injured adventurers or a Reiki specialization.

[Examurai]

Meh...this doesn't really matter to me anyway. I'm one of those people that buy like 30 health potions, 15 lyrium and stamina potions, enough to last 2 to 3 quests.
Yeah, all my PC characters are addicts lol

[AresKeith]

 Everyone's Inquisitor is going to be an addict 

[AlanC9]

Dubozz wrote...

Apparently being a smart*** is something new and intelligent.

Not really new.  It's just something we do around here. From your join date, you should know that already.

The "aggressively clueless" approach to a topic can work, but I don't think you played it right.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 août 2013 - 06:12 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ziggeh wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Health not regenerating. 34 pages. Why the f*** is this so important?

It fundamentally changes the combat.

It might fundamentally change the combat.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, ME didn't have regenerating health, but since it did have regenerating shields, and characters rarely took actual heath damage, it wasn't meaningfully different in terms of gameplay as a result of not having regenerating health.

Similarly, if characters in DAI take primarily stamina damage from combat rather than health damage (I understand Project Eternity is doing something like this), and stamina regenerates automatically, then whether health regenerates might be immaterial.

There is a chance that this change is primarily semantic.  Which would be annoying, but it's something to keep in mind.

[Rolling Flame]

It might depend on the size of our health bars. If health levels are anything like DA2 (which was generally very low for mages and rogues) then I feel it would detrimental to the experience, what with having to carry loads of potions, constantly have a mage in the party which could mess with role playing, or finding yourself in an impossible situation where you can't win a battle because your party's health is too low from previous fights.

However, on the flip side, it might work if all health levels are sizable so there is some room for error, or if there are more ways to negate damage altogether (I really miss evasion when playing DA2) . Still, this will have to be handled carefully.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Similarly, if characters in DAI take primarily stamina damage from combat rather than health damage (I understand Project Eternity is doing something like this), and stamina regenerates automatically, then whether health regenerates might be immaterial.

There is a chance that this change is primarily semantic.  Which would be annoying, but it's something to keep in mind.

I would argue that the equivalent of a regenerating shield would radically change the combat in DA:O, essentially adding the equivalent of a second health bar. And if "stamina" is the same pool we use our spells out of, then certainly it would change combat a greatl deal to have that shield. 

[In Exile]

Rolling Flame wrote...

It might depend on the size of our health bars. If health levels are anything like DA2 (which was generally very low for mages and rogues) then I feel it would detrimental to the experience, what with having to carry loads of potions, constantly have a mage in the party which could mess with role playing, or finding yourself in an impossible situation where you can't win a battle because your party's health is too low from previous fights.

However, on the flip side, it might work if all health levels are sizable so there is some room for error, or if there are more ways to negate damage altogether (I really miss evasion when playing DA2) . Still, this will have to be handled carefully.

DA2 wanted to make the CON stat useful, so you didn't get health gains at a level. But since your DMG output was so unbalanced, health was useless anyway. So CON wasn't worthwhile in the end at all, even for a blood mage. 

[Ziggeh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
It might fundamentally change the combat.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, ME didn't have regenerating health, but since it did have regenerating shields, and characters rarely took actual heath damage, it wasn't meaningfully different in terms of gameplay as a result of not having regenerating health.

Similarly, if characters in DAI take primarily stamina damage from combat rather than health damage (I understand Project Eternity is doing something like this), and stamina regenerates automatically, then whether health regenerates might be immaterial.

There is a chance that this change is primarily semantic.  Which would be annoying, but it's something to keep in mind.

Very true, though I would say from the Dev discussion in here that they recognise the impact it has upon design, and would be having different conversations if it was "sort of" not regenerating. But point taken, we should try not to assume.

[philippe willaume]

Face of Evil wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I don't understand how removing health regen means that you spend hours hunting for potions. The few games i've played without it--Bioware's Sonic game, FF III, FF VII, Hammer and Sickle, etc--you didn't scrounge around for potions. You just had to be more careful.

My experience has been the opposite. No health regen equals tedious out-of-combat healing, usually involving loads of potions, or frequent trips back to the Trauma Inn.

I haven't soured totally on the series, but I'm not as enthused as I was before.

yes i think we all agree with that. 
but we need to bear in mind that with a auto health regenertion outside combat, a way to escape combat difficulty could be to kill a few escape, regenerate and re-enter (IE like diying in SWtor).
it is not necessarily bab. making it possible or preventing it could be a dificulty choice.

as well  we  need to consider health auto regeneration in combat as well.
as Fast Jymmy and other have mentioned we need a meaningfull price on healing if we want it to have a tactical value.
I would not be against a rogue being able to regenerate health when hiding for exemple. 
or a mage spening mana and a warrior spending stamina or using a talent that lock him in defensive mode for 5-10 sec.


phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 11 août 2013 - 02:43 .

[Tvorceskiy]

The more I think about it...

Maybe this is a way to keep people upgrading their equipment? Armor lessens damage recieved and the more damage it takes the less useful it is. Maybe in place of regenerating health we get the "shield" bar like ME but with armor. Every so often you need to repair it or upgrade to better armor instead of just sticking with one set through 90% of the game.

[draken-heart]

Tvorceskiy wrote...

The more I think about it...

Maybe this is a way to keep people upgrading their equipment? Armor lessens damage recieved and the more damage it takes the less useful it is. Maybe in place of regenerating health we get the "shield" bar like ME but with armor. Every so often you need to repair it or upgrade to better armor instead of just sticking with one set through 90% of the game.

I...Think this is a good idea actually, particularly the shield/armor bar.

[Allan Schumacher]

Aware of what, I wonder.

I think Allan was relating the exact nature of people's concern/excitement. Saying "some people love it, others hate it, as per usual" would be, while likely accurate, pretty worthless.

You guys are over analyzing my statement too much.

I pretty much just literally said what Jimmy figures I didn't just say, because it was a 3-5 second interaction of my day while we were both in a meeting that was wrapping up.

What I said: "Not really surprising but there's a thread on no health regen and it seems to have a pretty even split down the middle thus far with some ideas I think are interesting."

"Aware of what" is simply "Aware of the thread's existence." Mike doesn't spend as much time on the forums as I do. But if he wants to read up on it, it's up to him.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 11 août 2013 - 06:56 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Filament wrote...

But I'd have to imagine there would be a way to repair it. I'd hate weapons/armor that are effectively consumables and have to be replaced when they're too damaged.

It would be very funny to have Project Eternity cut item degredation (which it has), only to have BioWare add it.

[draken-heart]

Filament wrote...

Armor health would be cool. Presumably it would not regenerate either.

Does not have to be armor. Could be resolve or something, like the lower the bar is, the less resolve you have to stand your gound.

Modifié par draken-heart, 11 août 2013 - 07:15 .

[rolson00]

Concession wrote...

Potion guzzlers rejoice.

[Sylvius the Mad]

My understanding is that they eliminated the need to use crafting to maintain items entirely.

[Sylvianus]

I'm indifferent. Though the fact that there are 35 pages made me think more about this matter. But either way, I'm fine.