1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Intending the game to challenge the player is simply the wrong way to go about designing a roleplaying game, I think. Forcing the player to work hard at playing the game limits his character's development based on the player's ability to learn.

That's antithetical to roleplaying.

I feel the exact opposite. Your character is struggling to overcome insanely impossible odds. By correlating the player's experience of struggle with the character's, I would think that would enhance roleplaying, if anything. 

Being able to mow through enemies without any resistance would make light of the accomplishments your character is completing and, hence, their perceived value for doing so. 

[DarthLaxian]

guys - quick question (i don't want to read through the whole topic all fourty odd pages of it!):

is there now going to be health regeneration or not?

i mean, yes i have an oppinion on that of course (for me: health regen all the way - tough encounters yeah, but slaying cannon-fodder should not endanger you (if you loose to much health and don't have enough potions) enough so that you can't fight the boss/elite monster afterwards (if you are in a dungeon for example)...it just slows the player down and that is unneeded IMHO (it is no MMO with farming - and i don't want it to be!) i want to play this game (like the ones before) for the story, not because i want to have adrenalin pumping through me constantly (if i want that i take a random shooter from my game-shelf and play that at a difficulty that i find challenging) and frankly:

i hate working in a game (quests are fine, but farming? - come on that is no fun at all) at least if it is repetitiv work (collecting herbs, buying bottles, brewing a ton of potions and buying all available potions, too in order to have enough (and probably still running short later on))...i don't want it...it's a thing of the past for me and i like that they got rid of this in modern games (at least mostly)

but that said, i would like to know, if they already said how it's going to be?

greetings LAX

[Fast Jimmy]

is there now going to be health regeneration or not?

It is currently believed to not have instant health restoration after every fight, like what was in DA:O and DA2.

How is will actually work is not known by anyone outside of Bioware.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 août 2013 - 01:11 .

[dduane o]

oh come one, please let there be a base .25% health regeneration per second during combat and 5% health regeneration during exploration. This would really help during hard mode and nightmare mode which the difficulty can be increased. Also an injury of poultrices addiction can be added when too much poultrices is taken, which then increases the amount of mana/stamina consumption with talents and spells. Look at it as the lyium consumption addiction of the templars when using their skills. please have the health regeneration in there.

[Mark of the Dragon]

John Epler wrote...

As to what games are balanced around their health mechanics, Dark Souls/Demon's Souls comes to mind (more the former than the latter). You could acquire limited health regeneration, of course, but as with most things in that game it was a fairly significant trade-off.

I don't think it's any more difficult to balance a game around a lack of health regeneration as opposed to around health regeneration - it simply requires a different mindset. You shift your focus on the 'average' number of resources a party will have at that point as opposed to always assuming everyone's at full strength.

Personally, I dig it. One of the things that always drew me to the STALKER games (take a shot) is the feeling of going on expeditions out into the uncharted wastelands. You had your stash, and you'd take what you thought you might need - and hope that was enough. It made for some excellent emergent storytelling and kept things interesting, even in the earlier areas.

These kinda echo my thoughts.

Since DAI has a bigger world the prospects of exploration excites me. Being able to pick a few party members and go on an adventure with limited supplies sounds fun to me. It gives it a more realistic feel.

I like this no health regen idea.

[Mark of the Dragon]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have to disagree that No Health Regen is not connected to difficulty.
A game with health regen, can have really hard fights, but they would be nearly impossible with no health regen and fighting several before that. A great player can win eventually, dying a bit more, many casual players won't be able to finish

This is true, but the point I was making is that "If you have a game with health regen, you can design things differently."

That is, a game with health regen doesn't need to be easy. Yes, if you take the exact same game and remove health regen, it will be harder, but if the game doesn't have health regenerating health, the encounters may be designed differently to accommodate that.


EDIT: In retrospect you seem to be saying the same thing upon further reading your post >.>

I dont really like the idea of tying health regen to difficulty.
 
I usually play my first playthrough on casual just for the story. However I'm excited about the no health regen feature. It adds a level of realism to the game that im really excited for.

Should I miss out on that just because of my difficulty level?

I would much rather just be able to toggle the feature on or off no matter the difficulty.

[Maria Caliban]

Why would poultices be addictive?

You know a poultice is something you rub on your skin, right?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 août 2013 - 03:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Why would poultices be addictive?

You know a poultice is something you rub on your skin, right?

Depends what's in the poultice.

[philippe willaume]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think the important question is: Can I regain heal by devouring my enemies?

In the Wolfenstein, you can drink blood to heal small amounts of health. Ah... simpler times. 

or eat dog food..  

[philippe willaume]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Intending the game to challenge the player is simply the wrong way to go about designing a roleplaying game, I think. Forcing the player to work hard at playing the game limits his character's development based on the player's ability to learn.

That's antithetical to roleplaying.

I feel the exact opposite. Your character is struggling to overcome insanely impossible odds. By correlating the player's experience of struggle with the character's, I would think that would enhance roleplaying, if anything. 

Being able to mow through enemies without any resistance would make light of the accomplishments your character is completing and, hence, their perceived value for doing so. 

Well I am not sure that is mutually exclusive, I kind of agree with you both. 
I think StM is talking about stuff like finding a the wining tactic by dying and and try at nauseam or die and withle like in SWtOR or when you have to hide and kite whilst health is auto regenerating not that the  combat/dialogue 
ie  I run like around pillar like a pubescent maiden/ knave when the "artichoke" shows up is a massive kick in the goolies to the i am a warrior standing toes to toes against my opponent role. Yes there is way around that vanguard berserker/reaver but that might not be the role you wanted to play.

where i do not really agree, is that health regen has such an impact.as long as you have a game resources free health recuperation method like resting when the number of days have no influence on the game or using spell when mana is regenerating for free it is pretty much a moot point.
yes non regenerating health during combat, will get rid of the peta-byte hit point baddies, kitting&hiding like a Muppet but that's about it.I thinks a way around it is to dissociate health effect from Hit Point (the shield that was discussed before)

Taking Maria C idea, we could have wind/fatigue/defense  bar that would act like shield. this bar would represent your ability to absorb/deflect damage, with you weapon, shield rolling with the blows or using your armored arm to deflect a blow. That would be regenerating.
your HP get damaged only when the defense bar is down.
HP  can be first aided in combat and like Jagged alliance restore your combat efficiency but they will need to be treated after the battle.
HP would not regenerate in or out of combat.
Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 15 août 2013 - 09:34 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I feel the exact opposite. Your character is struggling to overcome insanely impossible odds. By correlating the player's experience of struggle with the character's, I would think that would enhance roleplaying, if anything.

First, I'm not a method roleplayer.  I don't experience my character's emotions.

Second, as I mentioned, if my lack of ability holds back my character, that breaks the game world.  This is just like my opposition to twitch combat.

Being able to mow through enemies without any resistance would make light of the accomplishments your character is completing and, hence, their perceived value for doing so.

If it comes easily, yes, absolutely.  But I'm saying that if the character struggles through hardship first, then he has earned that later ease.  Punishing him by making the game harder is just cruel (which is why I oppose scaling).

[draken-heart]

Maybe a bad idea, but Why not have Mana/Stamina bar be the secondary/defensive bar? and every ability you use lowers that, so you have to approach battle tactically?

Modifié par draken-heart, 15 août 2013 - 05:43 .

[Allan Schumacher]

First, I'm not a method roleplayer

This actually made me laugh (the term)

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 août 2013 - 06:04 .

[Fetunche]

I would be interested to know why the devs decided to drag no health regen out of the ancient rpg abyss when it had no place in the DA universe before.

[DarthLaxian]

i have but one - other - question concernin this:

why is there development-time spent to fix something that is not broken (not at all)?

greetins LAX
ps: lingering injuries like in DA:O - where you had to apply medicine in order to be fully healed, yes, that i could get behind, but everything else is just a waste of effort!

[The Hierophant]

I would be interested to know why the devs decided to drag no health regen out of the ancient rpg abyss when it had no place in the DA universe before.

To see you cry?

[AresKeith]

Fetunche wrote...

I would be interested to know why the devs decided to drag no health regen out of the ancient rpg abyss when it had no place in the DA universe before.

Is having health regen really that big of a deal when you have a ton of health potions to handle the situation?

[Sylvianus]

I was indifferent, but after reading this thread, finally convinced, I'm glad that bioware is moving toward the no healt regen system. That seems to be really interesting. As it has been already said, it can add a lot ( planning and strategy ) , while not being a big deal. ( to me. )

Otherwise, I've learned in this thread why I suck so much with the combats in the witcher 2 ! xD I never considered I really needed to be prepared before going to battles ! I knew it was a possibility, but didn't know it was quite necessary. Now, I know lol.

[ZeshinX]

Awesome.

Potion overdose, here I come!!!

[legbamel]

A couple of thoughts:
First, my hope is that the reason behind removing regen is to make crafting or other skills facilitated by a more-open world relevant. I'm still dubious that it was necessary outside of battle (though removing the instant heal I have no argument with) but as someone who enjoys gathering and crafting I'd consider it an acceptable trade.

Second, I had assumed Ithough I know what it makes of me) that environmental factors would affect things like dexterity, attack speed, and chance to hit rather than being some sort of sandblasting effect that would wear your health away. Is there somewhere that it's described as such or is this mere speculation as well?

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

Maybe a bad idea, but Why not have Mana/Stamina bar be the secondary/defensive bar? and every ability you use lowers that, so you have to approach battle tactically?

Sorry for quoting, but nobody wants to comment? Seemed like a bad idea anyways.