1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm guessing injuries will still exist, because I'd highly doubt they would embrace any form of permadeath. If you or your companion falls in combat, will they get back up with one hit point and an injury, I wonder? Since they are making health regen non-existent, will injuries be more penalizing, to keep in line with the hard line towards resource management? Will they be less penalizing, to counter balance the fact that they are including no health regen?

[abnocte]

Oh God, YES!!

I've missed this so much!!

Really looking forward to its implementation!

Will we see a resting system? day/night cycles? Random encounters if you rest in the wildereness? Inn's where you can rent a room? health kits? meaningful crafting? .....

Oh the possibilities!!!

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I like trash mobs. I like being able to enjoy the benefits of having grown more powerful, and it makes sense within the setting that there should still be low-level enemies out there even after you've become high-level.

I agree wholeheartedly.

And further, levelling up has no meaning, to me at least, when everything levels with you. A world that magically grows in power as you do nullifies your "power."


As for the topic, it sounds like i need to read Game Informer. Bioware may actually be heading the right direction.

+ 1000

[TMJfin]

I really hope that health regen will be optional on lower difficulties or there's regen at casual. While I like challenge, I'm a story gamer first. And I do many playtroughs (almost 20 now both on Origins and ][) so I don't want it to become a chore. It's ok to put it in game as an option. Like you don't have party damage on lower difficulties, but it's there for people who like it.

[Ziggeh]

I've been trying to think how this could work. There are loads of clumsy ways, indeed, I can only think of one that's not, which is concerning. But that may jsut be a failure of my imagination.

You have to allow for some measure of health recovery, otherwise people will simply reload in response to non ideal results, but you can't allow constant total health recovery because that defeats the object and is simply replacing a passive system with a button that we peck mindlessly out of combat like a pigeon in a box.

Which means either mana cannot regenerate (which has fairly deep gameplay consequences) or magical healing needs to be limited or removed out of combat.

You need a penalty to recovery that isn't time, because people will simply wait. "Rest" is problematic as it's an infinite resource. You could add the risk of random encounters, but you back run into the reload issue, especially if used in dire straits. 

Comsumables are better, and can be finite through inventory limits (weight, space or simply arbitrary) (not that I like inventories but that's a seperate topic) which lends a risk/reward element to their usage (you have X amount to get through this dungeon) and also have a literal cost attached.

[Fetunche]

No health regen is just a unnecessary throwback that's adds nothing but tedium especially if potions still have cool downs.

[Ziggeh]

Also, doesn't it put blood mages in a weird position? Unless mana doesn't regenerate, in which case it's functionally identical, I guess.

[Fast Jimmy]

Ziggeh wrote...

Also, doesn't it put blood mages in a weird position? Unless mana doesn't regenerate, in which case it's functionally identical, I guess.

We would likely assume that stamina AND mana are treated the same, so it wouldn't just be Mages. Rogues and Warriors couldn't use their skills without needing to chug lyrium potions, either. 

There may very well be an entirely different mechanic at play, where healing demonstrates the law of diminishing returns. 


For example, your basic healing spell restores 50% of your total health, but for 5 minutes, all healing effects from spells and potions are reduced by 50% for that character. So if you are down to 25% health and get a healing spell cast, the cool down on the spell may only be 15 seconds, but if you cast it on the same character again within 5 minutes, it would only be half as effective.

These diminishing return effects could then either stack (50% of 50% healing efficacy, yielding 25% for any healing after that) or it could simply reset the 5 minute clock. This could lead to not having to never use spells/skills, but simply reduces the ability to spam healing spells/skills. 

[GameHunter]

IM all for no health regen
Immediate health regen in games just makes you rush headlessly through the game
and in the end just make for boring gameplay.

No health regen is awesome thing it encourages player to make preparations and
decisions ,to take care of his party.

Possible examples sleeping on taverns, ordering breakfast on taverns , making camps ,finding outpost with deeper entrance blocked by debris but few room's to sleep till morning so you can remove debris at morning
and explore in daylight safer and rested. Finding bandit camp overwhelming its inhabitants and celebrating
by eating wild hog they were roasting over fire.Or bring meat of animal you hunted on your travels and cook
on campfire so technically you didn't spent all night resting but regained your strength so to speak.

Also areas are made for you to explore so you will be finding potions in the environment naturally
on humanoid enemies( at least ) as well. You may encounter something out of your league on your travels as stated so I doubt there will be insufferable enemy re-spawning all the time, and you won't reach point of neither forward neither backward possible anymore. So you should be able to get back to some safe place rest your bones and stock up on supplies.

Game allows player agency I doubted Ill ever see in a game in one package there is tactical combat, exploration which is optional but rewarding ,cave crawling(dungeon), leading huge organization ,making impact on the world ,horse riding ,interesting crafting ,and tactical party and area exploration management ,day night cycles.

Mages cant draw mana from thin air at whim and blood mages can take blood only if there
is actual blood left

All I have to say I'm disappointed in lack of imagination of some players in terms of such system
and viewing it as something negative. I thought rpg players are jolly bunch which
likes campfire and stuff (beer or w/e you fancy) ^^.

I was bored to hell of game cloning which was happening for with quite a lot of games.
And this game actually tries something new while in part returning to the ways of games
were before and not just time killer or railroad with story nodes. Something so much
more ,something greater.

I crave for all the sweet features this game is providing , I want to enjoy them , all of them ^^.
P.S Im gonna put so many weekends in this game it's a bit frightening .

Modifié par GameHunter, 07 août 2013 - 03:04 .

[karushna5]

I have to agree all this means is we will have to spend everything on potions or have a spirit healer all the time, if mana doesn't regenerate...this sounds incredibly aggravating

[Ziggeh]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

We would likely assume that stamina AND mana are treated the same, so it wouldn't just be Mages. Rogues and Warriors couldn't use their skills without needing to chug lyrium potions, either. 

I dislike potions. They have a problematic effect on balance. But that's another topic.

I think it makes more sense to have a strategic (one health bar per dungeon/"mission") and tactical (1 mana/stamina bar per combat) resource. 

Which would make blood magic really interesting, but really specific. Unless you have reavers (and a rogue equivelant) do much the same thing.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

These diminishing return effects could then either stack (50% of 50% healing efficacy, yielding 25% for any healing after that) or it could simply reset the 5 minute clock. This could lead to not having to never use spells/skills, but simply reduces the ability to spam healing spells/skills. 

Making the out of combat penalty time based is really problematic design. You'd find people waiting and begrudging it rather than pushing on being suboptimal.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Unless, as I stated earlier, waiting wasn't inherently safe. If enemies roamed and you could be barged in on at any moment, rather than have the enemies wait to be activated, such strategies would be just as dangerous as pushing onward.

[Ziggeh]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Unless, as I stated earlier, waiting wasn't inherently safe. If enemies roamed and you could be barged in on at any moment, rather than have the enemies wait to be activated, such strategies would be just as dangerous as pushing onward.

As I say though, that creates an issue for disaster recovery. If you make recovery a risk and the player is already crippled they have no choice but to gamble. You really don't want to create a lose condition that operates on a random seed.

[Plaintiff]

GameHunter wrote...
Possible examples sleeping on taverns, ordering breakfast on taverns , making camps ,finding outpost with deeper entrance blocked by debris but few room's to sleep till morning so you can remove debris at morning
and explore in daylight safer and rested.

I can't wait for the super-awesome tedium of running all the way back across one of DA:I's supposedly "ENORMOUS" field areas so I can rest at a tavern or what-the-hell-ever.

Is this what passes for "fun" among "oldschool gamers"? Pointless busywork and arbitrarily enforced wait-times?

I hope to god that Inquisition isn't anything like this at all.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 07 août 2013 - 03:48 .

[Ziggeh]

Plaintiff wrote...

I can't wait for the super-awesome tedium of running all the way back across one of DA:I's supposedly "ENORMOUS" field areas so I can rest at a tavern or what-the-hell-ever.

Allowing that would be problematic design. Because people will if they can.

[uzivatel]

Plaintiff wrote...

Is this what passes for "fun" among "oldschool gamers"? Pointless busywork and arbitrarily enforced wait-times?

Clearly you are not hardcore RPGer enough to appriciate all these "fun" features. 

Modifié par uzivatel, 07 août 2013 - 04:01 .

[Olmerto]

Great move. Maybe Bioware still does have some of the gaming vision and philosophy left.

[Ziggeh]

Out of interest, for those looking forward to this, what is it about it that you're looking forward to? (I've only seen two elaborations so far, and one of those was the ever nebulous "realism")

I appreciate that's a bit leading, but I'm genuinely interested in hearing differing playstyles.

[karushna5]

Wait, it did say you don't have to be tactical to play the game. I adore these games, but it won't be any fun if all the stuff you guys are suggesting is true.
No health regen
No rest stops
Enemies come back, so that to finish the adventure you have to do it all over again to get out
No potion spamming
mana/stamina also non recharge
no level scaling

I understand some people like that stuff, but I would wager the majority of players find (if the other things suggested are not true) it too tedious, all those potions, all that trekking for rest stops, never mind the fact that it is now quite possible to lose your game because you saved at a wrong moment and your health was too low to continue, otherwise anyone who isn't hard core won't be able to play. It seems that difficulty should decide these things. Not everyone is a virtuoso at gaming, most people are not virtuosos at gaming, and I personally will feel they did not live up to their word of "you can play tactically, or all action" if all these features become the norm.

I love they want to make the hard core people happy, but it sounds like casual is being given hard time for it, and I am hoping they are optional features

[Am1vf]

I'm in favor of gameplay encouraging players to avoid getting hurt. Let's hope that is what this is instead of ...

Plaintiff wrote...
... running all the way back across one of DA:I's supposedly "ENORMOUS" field areas so I can rest at a tavern or what-the-hell-ever.
...

...or spamming potions and healing magic. That is just lame

Modifié par Am1_vf, 07 août 2013 - 04:17 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

GameHunter wrote...
Possible examples sleeping on taverns, ordering breakfast on taverns , making camps ,finding outpost with deeper entrance blocked by debris but few room's to sleep till morning so you can remove debris at morning
and explore in daylight safer and rested.

I can't wait for the super-awesome tedium of running all the way back across one of DA:I's supposedly "ENORMOUS" field areas so I can rest at a tavern or what-the-hell-ever.

Is this what passes for "fun" among "oldschool gamers"? Pointless busywork and arbitrarily enforced wait-times?

I hope to god that Inquisition isn't anything like this at all.

The whole point of all that "tedium" is to plan and play better so that you DON'T wind up in these situations. 

Don't worry - I have zero doubt that the Casual or Narrative difficulties will exist and make most of these exercises moot or unnecessary if you so choose. 

[Fetunche]

Some people enjoy tedium like calculus, some people are just elitist and look down on casual gamers. Of all the problems DA2 had this wasn't one of them it's fixing something that wasn't broken. It's totally put me off the game, I was never one of the doomsayers and was looking forward to this game. Now I'll have to wait for a combat demo to see if I can redevelop my enthusiasm.

[karushna5]

But not everyone is so good they can "avoid getting hurt" most will just quit because they can't win instead of becoming great. There have been several games I really wanted to play but they were too hard. Since Dragon Age has always been accessible to casual gamers, it seems hard that those players are being forgotten, or if all the things the hard core members want happen, discarded. I am all for the good players having a hard game, but the casual gamers need to also have an easy game, or at least much easier game than those who are hard core

[Plaintiff]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
The whole point of all that "tedium" is to plan and play better so that you DON'T wind up in these situations.

I thought "hardcores" and "old schoolers" frowned on metagaming. Or does DA:I have a mechanic for seeing the future?

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
The whole point of all that "tedium" is to plan and play better so that you DON'T wind up in these situations.

I thought "hardcores" and "old schoolers" frowned on metagaming. Or does DA:I have a mechanic for seeing the future?

Going into an area with proper equipment and supplies to handle a list of different situations is meta-gaming?

We better call the Boy Scouts - they've been cheating this whole time with their "Always Be Prepared" motto.