1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Tarek]

screw health regeneration, we are not frigging wolverine

[Fast Jimmy]

Fetunche wrote...

It's not about the difficulty I don't play narrative it's about adding an unnecessary layer of tedium.

If you have to constantly go through that layer of tedium (waiting to heal after every fight before you feel comfortable moving forward), then maybe you would best be served by PLAYING on a Casual difficulty level. 

The goal isn't to prove you are patient and able to wait after every fight. The goal is to do well enough against your enemies that the times you actually have to do this is minimal. In which case, if the game is consistently getting the better of you, it would just seem prudent to lower the difficulty. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 07 août 2013 - 05:25 .

[karushna5]

"Slacker difficulty" for "lazy people" there is no reason to be insulting. Not everyone is great at things, its like calling a calculator, brain for dumb people, there is no call for it. Not everyone is great at playing games to the height you are, and there is no point being elitist because people play differently from you.

An insult is the first sign of a bad position, if you can't make your point without trying to intimidate people, then you can't make a point. You are resting on being rude to make your point for you. I am not lazy, I am not as good as you are at gaming and find gaming ceases to be fun at that point where if I make a small mistake, I lose everything and need to start over.

That is how I game, and if it is a separate mode I see no reason why you have to insult me since it will have no effect on you at all.

[Ziggeh]

GameHunter wrote...

You cerial how can you make selling less busy work with things to be sold ,sort so you just add all
things you want to sell to it and when you stumble on vendor press sell all on that. How lazy you need
to be .

You're talking about a mechanic that makes strides to remove busywork. If that mechanic is your defense of busywork you've misunderstood the issue.

GameHunter wrote...
And there will most likely be slacker difficulty for all the lazy people.

Meh. It was only a matter of time until this thread devolved into hardcore/casual insults. So, you know, way to go.

There are ways to implement this that are satisfying to everyone. Assuming it's just a measure of difficulty is assuming lazy design.

[Am1vf]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Jayne126 wrote...

Now just add that the weather also can impact you, like having to find shelter in a snowstorm. That would be great.

Preparation is the way to success~

I would LOVE something like that. As long as it is integrated in the gameplay and not a single ocurrence to trigger some quest ofc.

They've said this will be the case, already. Moving/fighting in a swamp while it's raining will slow down your movement and response times. Sandstorms will cause damage so that you have to seek out shelter. It's in the Game Informer article. 

Sounds good thanks for the info.

[Foxhound2121]

I didn't have an opinion on this before, but now that I think about it...

I rather the game be difficult for the battles themselves rather than the handicap of a health bar.

[cJohnOne]

I usually like easy games but I think I would enjoy trekking to rest spots if that happens.

I'm one who was happy with things the way they were but find the new way intriguing.

[Ziggeh]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If you have to constantly go through that layer of tedium (waiting to heal after every right before you feel comfortable moving forward), then maybe you would best be served by PLAYING on a Casual difficulty level. 

The goal isn't to prove you are patient and able to wait after every fight. The goal is to do well enough against your enemies that the times you actually have to do this is minimal. In which case, if the game is consistently getting the better of you, it would just seem prudent to lower the difficulty.

That's a really disatisfying solution. It's a sound argument because this would place difficulty in terms of efficiency rather than binary success of failure, but it should allow for mistakes and learning curves with more developed penalties than tedium.

[GameHunter]

Plaintiff wrote...

GameHunter wrote...
No  wait times ,your passing day night cycle at seconds, you rest at 
convienent for you places not run half country for that only save haven like you put it.

It doesnt really matter where they happen. Resting mechanics aren't convenient, they slow down the game and they eat up the precious time that I allocated for gaming. I don't like watching the timer in Skyrim or Fallout count down. I don't like watching John Marston stamp out his campfire. I don't like it in JRPGs when the screen fades to black and I have to listen to a little lullaby. That time adds up.

Those are not the fun parts of the game, they don't even count as playing. They count as watching the screen while things happen (or rather don't happen) without my input. That is acceptable for cutscenes, which are visually interesting and progress the plot. It's not okay when what you wind up looking at is the same few loading screens over and over again.

Gamehunter wrote...
What kind of  loading screens? Press ding you heal it's night or day.
Second countdowns I never mentioned such .

Use your head to think out of the box for once.

Camping isn't "outside the box", it's in a lot of games.

Gamehunter wrote...
This wasn't about  camping but about all system as a hole and possibilities potions ,food crates
food drops idk healing shrines anything brought by EXPLORATION which is OPTIONAL TOO. Also
things you can do in your temporary camp location besides getting health.

Busywork ? maybe call quest completing busy work too,maybe call selling stuff busy work ass well
you can't do it anywhere and at any time.

Selling stuff is a pain in the butt, but games can and do alleviate that by implementing mechanics to make it go faster. Dragon Age 2, for example, gave me a special "Junk" tab that I could sort items into, and then gave me the option of selling all "junk" items at once.

Not to mention, selling comes with a reward (currency), which I can use to progress, and creates a felling of accomplishment. Resting is just an unnecessary hindrance.

Gamehunter wrote...
Yes ladies and gentelmans he couldn't press on get full health button  cause its time hindrance.
But he can  press get money button because it gives him sense of acomplishment .

GameHunter wrote...
I feel like I'm attacked by fast gaming addict here "lets beat game in 24 hours and go rant on forums till next game..."

This is rich, coming from someone who can barely take the time to form coherent sentences.

Gamehunter wrote...
I spend time to actually say something what is not "its improbable concept
I don't like to have to do anything". And how my English spelling is relevant ?

And being 21 Im sooooo old school that my beard reaches my knees you know.

I'm 23. What's your point?

 I'm not some old dude trying to tell you old times story with morals and etc.

Modifié par GameHunter, 07 août 2013 - 05:47 .

[Am1vf]

Ziggeh wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If you have to constantly go through that layer of tedium (waiting to heal after every right before you feel comfortable moving forward), then maybe you would best be served by PLAYING on a Casual difficulty level. 

The goal isn't to prove you are patient and able to wait after every fight. The goal is to do well enough against your enemies that the times you actually have to do this is minimal. In which case, if the game is consistently getting the better of you, it would just seem prudent to lower the difficulty.

That's a really disatisfying solution. It's a sound argument because this would place difficulty in terms of efficiency rather than binary success of failure, but it should allow for mistakes and learning curves with more developed penalties than tedium.

This.

Edit: Failing at anticipating what would happen in a fight should lead to more thrilling gameplay, not boredom.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 07 août 2013 - 05:32 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

I didn't have an opinion on this before, but now that I think about it...

I rather the game be difficult for the battles themselves rather than the handicap of a health bar.

I think the logic, though, is that the only way to make that happen is to make every right so hard that you can legitimately face everyone in your party dying at once. After all, if every fight let you auto-heal afterwards, then the only way to die would to be in a fight where everyone in your party was taken from 100% health to zero without you killing the enemy.

However, no one wants fights that hard (or enemies that unbalanced). So you run the risk of what DA2 -having waves of enemies to make fights possible to lose (more enemies, more whittling down of the health bar over the course of the fight) and also feeling as if combat had no risk at all, with countless amounts of trash mobs offering no real threat.

A health bar that you have to watch over the course of an entire dungeon/area, every encounter, even against mook enemies, is vital, as it can add up and leave you weaker.

And tough enemies don't need to be INSANELY tough (or, as in DA2, with giant health bars requiring twenty minutes of kiting) because there is a very real chance the dungeon already wore you down before you got to them. So it would, in theory, make each encounter less tedium, more engagement. 

[AlanC9]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

It's not metagame to fight tactically like you would if you were in the situation yourself. I've always found BioWare's games to be a way to play an analogue of PnP RPGs on my own, with the companions acting as the characters of the other people around the game table. Delving down dungeons in those games, feeling a bit nervous as a resource is exhausted, wondering just what is beyond the next corner since I know I won't be in absolute top shape... it's tense, it's thrilling, it's downright amazing.

Not all PnP games are about resource management, of course.

[ladyiolanthe]

Oh, come to think of it, the weather effects might be minimized if we use things like rock salves in the sandstorms, cold salves in snowstorms... I never had much use for the salves in DA:O but I would definitely hang on to them and use them in DA:I if this is the case. I just hope that they would last longer than the DA:O salves did.

[Fast Jimmy]

Ziggeh wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If you have to constantly go through that layer of tedium (waiting to heal after every right before you feel comfortable moving forward), then maybe you would best be served by PLAYING on a Casual difficulty level. 

The goal isn't to prove you are patient and able to wait after every fight. The goal is to do well enough against your enemies that the times you actually have to do this is minimal. In which case, if the game is consistently getting the better of you, it would just seem prudent to lower the difficulty.

That's a really disatisfying solution. It's a sound argument because this would place difficulty in terms of efficiency rather than binary success of failure, but it should allow for mistakes and learning curves with more developed penalties than tedium.

Well, I would assume you can also use potions or healing items in times where you are injured, people were just suggesting "waiting around" (which we don't even know if that would be a viable option, BTW) as a way you could get around paying for or using such items, in which case they would feel forced to do said waiting around all the time.

This is all, let's be clear, based off of a one-line caption of a picture in a magazine article. It may be wrong. It may be completely different than what any of us imagine. It may be a feature you can turn on and off at will. It may be a ton of fun for everyone, somehow, some way. Until we know more, enough to really argue one way or another, let's all try to stay civil and keep and open mind, if possible. 

[GameHunter]

karushna5 wrote...

"Slacker difficulty" for "lazy people" there is no reason to be insulting. Not everyone is great at things, its like calling a calculator, brain for dumb people, there is no call for it. Not everyone is great at playing games to the height you are, and there is no point being elitist because people play differently from you.

An insult is the first sign of a bad position, if you can't make your point without trying to intimidate people, then you can't make a point. You are resting on being rude to make your point for you. I am not lazy, I am not as good as you are at gaming and find gaming ceases to be fun at that point where if I make a small mistake, I lose everything and need to start over.

That is how I game, and if it is a separate mode I see no reason why you have to insult me since it will have no effect on you at all.

Ok maybe I should Implied slacker difficulty was a joke before I made people angry at me  and thought
Im total jerk.
I don't reinforce [one mistake ruins gameplay and you have to restart] position cause it would be absurd.
I would totally see second lowest difficulty accessible to almost anyone. I want that game would challenge
me beyond 90k hp bars.
As I see no hp regen is way to add  manage your resources use advantages of your location thing .
Not an Impossible to get heal situations and die horribly.

And most insults I may have typed are really directed at Plaintiff.

Still people pay more attention to my less civilized sentences than my other mentions
 
Few people make big deal of no health regen MAINLY Plaintiff as it hinders his experience.

Game will possibly have mentioned outposts you will be able to repair , there is no reason they
wouldn't work as DAO camp for getting strength back you possibly have some passive followers
NPC s (not party members) who will buy and sell your loots when you setup camp for rest.
You free up space ,get glug bottle .
Also rest would change daytime so it wouldn't be hindrance as area may very much change during
different daytime day would provide quests from passing by caravan or local who hides at night
and night all kind of light hating nasties would come out.

Or camp can be setup on any non city territory. For all we know

The Irony there was going notion Bioware forgot their roots but now they do things like they were 
in BG and some people pull Plaintiff on forums basically (PLaintiff) 

Plaintiff - being to busy to be hindered by sleep or no health regen 
be cautious  approaching him at night time.

Modifié par GameHunter, 07 août 2013 - 06:06 .

[AlanC9]

It'll be interesting to see if Bio can actually pull this off. They haven't done a game with a serious resting mechanic since.....BG2?

Edit: except ME1 before you can pick up a couple of regeneration armors or upgrades.

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 août 2013 - 05:48 .

[Bat32391]

Sounds like it might be pain at first. I'll just play as a healer and that problem should be solved.

[Am1vf]

Bat32391 wrote...

Sounds like it might be pain at first. I'll just play as a healer and that problem should be solved.

I'm hoping it'll be more comlplicated than that. Like if a companion gets a nasty hit from a troll (one of the predictable ones like rock throwing) breaks an arm, and I don't mean -5 to dexterity, I mean that companion won't be able to help you much for the rest of the quest.

[Wulfram]

Games should be about me trying to win. Not me judging whether the game will waste more of my time by waiting to heal or risking continuing and dying.

I don't want east combat, so I don't want to go to Casual/Narrative difficulty. I want interesting, challenging combats, not tests of my tolerance for time wasting. I want to try my hardest to win, I don't want to have to add self imposed arbitrary limits to my choices to get that challenge.

Creating roleplaying/gameplay disparities is never good. If the game rewards bad roleplaying, then it's encouraging bad roleplaying.

Who are they going to balance the boss fight at the end of the dungeon for - Player A who has rested (or was just that good), or the Player B who hasn't? If for player A, then B is going to get splattered, if for player B then the boss will be way too easy for player A.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

You do realize you are arguing an outcome of a mechanic that is not at all guaranteed?

What if there is no regenerating health bar, no way to rest and no way to leave the dungeon to recover? It's healing spells, potions or quest failure (which may not even be a game over)?

We don't know. Again - we are taking a caption of a picture and assuming TONS about how the game will play. Which may not be valid at all.

[MerinTB]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...
I didn't have an opinion on this before, but now that I think about it...

I rather the game be difficult for the battles themselves rather than the handicap of a health bar.

I think the logic, though, is that the only way to make that happen is to make every right so hard that you can legitimately face everyone in your party dying at once. After all, if every fight let you auto-heal afterwards, then the only way to die would to be in a fight where everyone in your party was taken from 100% health to zero without you killing the enemy.

However, no one wants fights that hard (or enemies that unbalanced). So you run the risk of what DA2 -having waves of enemies to make fights possible to lose (more enemies, more whittling down of the health bar over the course of the fight) and also feeling as if combat had no risk at all, with countless amounts of trash mobs offering no real threat.

A health bar that you have to watch over the course of an entire dungeon/area, every encounter, even against mook enemies, is vital, as it can add up and leave you weaker.

And tough enemies don't need to be INSANELY tough (or, as in DA2, with giant health bars requiring twenty minutes of kiting) because there is a very real chance the dungeon already wore you down before you got to them. So it would, in theory, make each encounter less tedium, more engagement. 

I'm not against health and mana regen at all.
And I'm certainly no fan of Vancian magic.

But, that said, there is a different kind of both short-term tactical and long-term strategic thinking that goes into playing a cRPG when each encounter as you delve deeper into a dungeon gets more and more difficult because you are using up resources that you cannot easily replenish just by the fight ending.  That can be enjoyable.

What's not enjoyable is setting up camp and sleeping 8 hours after every goblin attack.

(putting up the blue flame shield spell before speaking)

I think 4th ED D&D did this well by granting more HP, healing surges, and three tiers of powers (at-will, encounter, daily) so that you could handle multiple fights, but would eventually wear down to the point that you had to rest.  Almost all healing worked off the surges (even cleric spells and healing potions) so you were still forced to have to camp because your life, even with magic, was finite.  But, on the other hand, Mages could always contribute to a fight outside of having to fall back on crossbows or daggers.

[Am1vf]

Wulfram wrote...

Games should be about me trying to win. Not me judging whether the game will waste more of my time by waiting to heal or risking continuing and dying.

I don't want east combat, so I don't want to go to Casual/Narrative difficulty. I want interesting, challenging combats, not tests of my tolerance for time wasting. I want to try my hardest to win, I don't want to have to add self imposed arbitrary limits to my choices to get that challenge.

Creating roleplaying/gameplay disparities is never good. If the game rewards bad roleplaying, then it's encouraging bad roleplaying.

Who are they going to balance the boss fight at the end of the dungeon for - Player A who has rested (or was just that good), or the Player B who hasn't? If for player A, then B is going to get splattered, if for player B then the boss will be way too easy for player A.

That is your way of playing, and it's allright. But I have had enough trying to win during a lifetime of exams. I want interesting fights as any other kind of gameplay, but that doesn't mean I want it to be hard.

[Ziggeh]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Well, I would assume you can also use potions or healing items in times where you are injured, people were just suggesting "waiting around" (which we don't even know if that would be a viable option, BTW) as a way you could get around paying for or using such items, in which case they would feel forced to do said waiting around all the time.

Cost is a better penalty. It's not one I would be jazzed about, but it's an option. But if you provide the option of waiting around, or pressing a key/spamming a spell etc to restore people will use it. Then begrudge it. It would be the optimum strategy, and lord knows people will go out of their way for what is optimal. I think you have to account for that, and that you can, and that it would be a more interesting mechanic for more people if they do.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

This is all, let's be clear, based off of a one-line caption of a picture in a magazine article. It may be wrong. It may be completely different than what any of us imagine.

Very true. I'm trying to see it from various perspectives and not assume anything on that basis. I think there are some things that are inherent to such a system - that it applies a layer of strategy, for example, but mostly I'm discussing the risks and potential pitfalls of a element that I'm genuinely interested to see work well.

[Wulfram]

Am1_vf wrote...

That is your way of playing, and it's allright. But I have had enough trying to win during a lifetime of exams. I want interesting fights as any other kind of gameplay, but that doesn't mean I want it to be hard.

If you don't want a challenge, I don't really see why you'd care about any of this.  Either way, you can switch things down to an easier difficulty

I don't see how fights can be interesting without some sort of challenge though - what else is there to enjoy in them?

[esper]

this + 'large' areas promise one thing for me. I am going to be bored as heck, playing this game. I can already see needless backtracking.... urgh.

This game is now officially off my preorder list untill they bring something to the table I will be exicted about. Everything I have heard so far as confirmed just drained my exicetment and now they have more and less promised backtracking or mindless waiting.... Yeah, not liking it.