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Alternate Central Plot for Mass Effect 2


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#1
David7204

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There are a lot of things I loved about ME 2. I loved the suicide mission, and liked the collectors as an enemy. I wouldn't want those elements gone. But I wasn't at all thrilled with the Human-Reaper, Reapers being made out of organics, and a lack of follow up in ME 3. So I have an alternative to propose.

The collectors abduct humans to make indoctrination functional.


Consider indoctrination.

The brain is an incredibly complex thing. What if instead of the Reapers being able to sway the thoughts of any thinking lifeform instantly, it required study? It required the Reapers to study and understand the structures and functions of the brain and nervous system of whatever species they sought to indoctrinate. Surely an incredibly plausible scenario?

As the player and Shepard learn, indoctrination is not instant. It requires the Reapers to study each species they indoctrinate to be effective. So each cycle, agents of the Reapers meticulously spend hundreds of years gathering samples from the major species to study. In this cycle, the collectors. The galaxy is a huge place with plenty of dark, remote corners, so the agents are able to operate undetected. Asari, salarians, turians, krogan, maybe quarians and volus...all have had thousands of members quietly abducted by the Collectors over many years. The necessary data points for indoctrination to be effective.

But humans? Humans are different. Only made first contact 30 years ago. Not yet spread out enough across the galaxy to make discreet abductions particularly easy. Minor race. Insignificant. They'll be more than plenty of indoctrinated thralls from the other races to easily deal with them. No need to start a whole new cycle of collection and study to deal just because a minor race made contact a few decades ago.

That is, until the events of Mass Effect 1. Where humanity plays a very significant role in defeating Sovereign, where a human stops Saren, and where the Reapers lose their very significant advantage of control over the Relays. And so the collectors change their mind.

Not because humans are super special. Not because they're the geneically perfect race. Just because their actions in dealing with Sovereign bumped them up a few notches on the 'threat-o-mater.' Before, the Reapers had dismissed them as a minor race. Shepard's actions in ME 1caused the Reapers to reconsider and put in the effort to study them for indoctrination like the rest of the major races. On par with the major races. Barely. Not above.  

Obviously, the collectors don't have hundreds of years to quietly abduct samples here and there. The invasion is imminent, so they resort to quicker methods - abducting colonies.

Remember, even if the 'collectors' of previous cycles were discovered or exposed or something like that...So what? The Reapers would still have the overwhelming advantage, indoctrination or not. They would still have go control over the relays, armies of husks, and of course the Reaper ships themselves. If the 'collectors' of previous cycles failed, the Reapers would only lose an advantage they didn't need in the first place.

But wait a minute. There's a huge problem. Indoctrination supposedly doesn't work without study, but we saw it in ME 1! The main villain was indoctrinated! Does indoctrination work without the Collector's data or not?

Well, yes and no. Consider:

#1. Saren and Benezia were exposed to Sovereign for years on end.
#2. Saren and Benezia were in much closer proxmity - often inside the ship itself.
#3. The indoctrination didn't actually fully work. Despite those two incredibly significant advantages, both Saren and Benezia were able to resist. Saren was even able to resist additonal implants from Sovereign.

There's very clearly a huge difference between the indoctraination we see in ME 1 and the stories of mass indoctrination we hear about. Stories of entire populations being completely subdued within days simply by a Reaper having landed miles away. Sovereign was able to kinda-sorta indoctrinate Saren the same way fiddling around with a machine long enough will probably eventually get something to work, even if you're completely clueless about what you're doing. The important point is, this 'blind indoctrination' would be more or less useless on a large scale, and so without the Collector data the threat of mass Reaper indoctrination is eliminated for Mass Effect 3.

So how does this all affect Shepard? Simple. The abductions and suicide mission procede normally. Instead of finding humans turned into goo to make a Reaper, Shepard finds thousands of aliens preserved in stasis. Learns the truth behind the collectors. Destroys the data for the Reapers. Makes a choice to Destroy the data entirely or preserve a copy. Some other final boss or climax would have to be thought up, but I doubt that would be too difficult.

What are the advantages of this?

 - Mass Effect 2 is no longer 'pointless.'


We now have an established and progessive arc for the central conflict against the Reapers.

- Mass Effect 1 concerns crippling the Reapers' weapon of control of the Relays.
- Mass Effect 2 concerns crippling the Reapers' weapon of indoctraination.
- Mass Effect 3 concerns the defeat of the weakened yet still incredibly powerful Reapers themselves

- A victory in Mass Effect 3, particularly a conventional victory, is all the more plausible.


Justifying a victory over the Reapers is difficult. There needs to be very significant advantages the current cycle has that other cycles didn't to make a victory plausible and satisfying instead of contrived. Depriving the Reapers of one of their most powerful weapons is a massive step in that direction. Having the allied fleets be successful against Reapers is more much justified when the player is reminded that previous cycles had to deal with not only Reapers, but also indoctrinated masses equipped with their own weapons and ships.

- The absence of indoctrinated masses and non-Cerberus indoctrination in general in ME 3 is much more plausible.

I'm glad we didn't fight indoctrainated populations in ME 3; Shepard already has enough to deal with and gunning down humans, turians,  salarians and asari would heavily undermine the themes of unity between the races in ME 3. It would also raise questions as to why Joe Average suddenly becomes a soldier that can hold his ground against Shepard and the squad as soon as he's indoctrainted.

But now, instead of just being handwaved, indoctrinated populations canonically don't exist in any significant numbers. Never fighting Reaper-aligned humans or aliens is justified because there are now no Reaper-aligned humans or aliens to fight.

- The final choice becomes much better

Many players have been upset that the presented reasoning behind destroying the base in ME 2 isn't very good. And I agree. The fact that the Collectors have killed people and a made a Reaper out of them isn't good enough justification for throwing away the base. A lot of players like to reason that they Destroy the base because they don't want Cerberus to have control of such technology, but that isn't explained well in-game.

So here's the new choice. Do you save the Indoctrination technology and data? Do you save the technology built for the sole and explicit purpose of enslaving a sentient being? No longer is the choice about saving whatever generic Collector technology lies within the base - it's about saving technology designed specifically to rob a person of their free will.

Is enslaving humans and aliens a price worth paying for the help in defeating the Reapers? It's a premise I'm confident Renegade players would find meaning in accepting and Paragon players would find meaning in rejecting. It also fits much better into themes of Control Cerberus uses in ME 3. Granted, I'm still unsure how the choice could be intergrated into ME 3, but I'm sure I could think of something satisfying with enough time.

- No genetic nonsense

No more Reapers being built out of human goo. No more 'essence of a species.' No more baby Reaper. No more 'humans have special genes.' No more Reapers being Organic-Synthetic hybrids. All of that can happily be scrapped.  

Modifié par David7204, 06 août 2013 - 11:55 .


#2
shingara

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All reapers are made up of organic material repurposed via nanide reconstruction into a basic blueprint which on this basis is harbringer. The strength at which the species specific dna can be munipulation allows for the design of reapers to vary from reaper to reaper based upon the manipulation that dna can take before it is no longer viable. The fact that the proto reaper can exists is ultimatly down the human dna being the most adaptive dna within the universe and more suceptable to mutation.

Mordin tells you this on his loyalty mission in ME2. the collectors manipulated this fact when creating a new reaper which allowed them to go beyond the previous constaints placed upon reapers without breaking the framework beyond acceptale ranges within that dna.

Modifié par shingara, 06 août 2013 - 09:48 .


#3
David7204

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That's all a load of nonsense.

Look, you can't build a better machine out of organic goo just because the organic it came from had 'better DNA.'

Modifié par David7204, 06 août 2013 - 09:48 .


#4
shingara

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how is it nonesense, javik explains this to you in 3, the nanides are what allow turain-krogan hyrbid husks to be created. The nanides repurpose humans via manipulation of the dna advanced via adrenaline interaction to create human husks upon spikes.

All life is made up of a soup of goo, the only thing that distinguises that goo is how it is assembled by the genes and cells within that goo based upon how the dna is structured.

 How else do you think they make such large reapers from species, do you think they staple them together and then bluetac the edges until it looks about right ?

 Edit and ps you can, its how development of organic computers are being theorized and attempted to be created in real life. its how test tube babys are created and how you can grow ears on the back of a mouse.

Modifié par shingara, 06 août 2013 - 09:54 .


#5
AresKeith

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Too busy with DA news for this nonsense

#6
David7204

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I really do not want to argue about that on this thread. The point is, I don't like it and I'd prefer it to be gone.

#7
shingara

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So you dont like actual science so you ignore it. thats cool.

#8
KieranW

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... Personally, I loved your idea for the plot David7204. It makes good, logical sense within the framework of the game. And while I did enjoy the proto-Reaper, this could be another viable plotline for the game.

As you said, we'd need another boss fight. But on the other hand, I did always wondered how the hell the proto-reaper laser couldn't burn through the 2ft of metal I was hiding behind.

#9
DeinonSlayer

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Not bad, David, though there would need to be heavy emphasis on why indoctrination plays such a pivotal role in Reaper victory. It's better than the "essence of a species"/"superior genetic diversity" BS from canon. Humans actually have very low genetic diversity owing to a bottleneck event about 100,000 years ago.

#10
David7204

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Is that really necessary? It's a significant advantage that's one more bit of insurance to make sure the Reapers win. I would think the implications of the Reapers being able to convert populations within days or even hours would be obvious.

#11
Steelcan

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nevermind

Modifié par Steelcan, 06 août 2013 - 11:44 .


#12
David7204

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You're defending Reapers being made from human goo, Steelcan? And doing so in the name of 'actual science'?

#13
Steelcan

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David7204 wrote...

You're defending Reapers being made from human goo, Steelcan? And doing so in the name of 'actual science'?

The problems with pre-conceptions.

#14
shingara

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Not bad, David, though there would need to be heavy emphasis on why indoctrination plays such a pivotal role in Reaper victory. It's better than the "essence of a species"/"superior genetic diversity" BS from canon. Humans actually have very low genetic diversity owing to a bottleneck event about 100,000 years ago.


 Im not sure where you get the bottleneck idea from because human dna specific is not specific to humans. Humans share dna with sub sect Hominidae species and also has varients through set spaced races. With inter change through races and sub races the diversity is more advanced then previously thought. I think maybe if you are honestly interested in this type of thing to look up the work of Chiara Romualdi.

#15
DeinonSlayer

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David7204 wrote...

Is that really necessary? It's a significant advantage that's one more bit of insurance to make sure the Reapers win. I would think the implications of the Reapers being able to convert populations within days or even hours would be obvious.

An overwhelming fleet and control of the relay network are enough by themselves for an enemy willing to press its campaign for centuries on end. Just saying, need to showcase the role it plays in their strategy. Maybe show indoctrinated agents at work, laying the groundwork to cripple the galaxy's response on the eve of the invasion, as happened to the Batarians in canon.

What would you think, David, had it turned out that the Shadow Broker was, himself, a Reaper (or a Harbinger-esque thrall - walk into the Yahg's office, it glows yellow and bellows out "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL")? I'd have thought it a clever and VERY significant plot development, that they're pulling the strings of galactic society, privy to every secret. We develop along the paths they desire.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 août 2013 - 11:53 .


#16
David7204

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That would have been horrible and caused the ruination of a great DLC.

#17
Steelcan

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shingara wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Not bad, David, though there would need to be heavy emphasis on why indoctrination plays such a pivotal role in Reaper victory. It's better than the "essence of a species"/"superior genetic diversity" BS from canon. Humans actually have very low genetic diversity owing to a bottleneck event about 100,000 years ago.


 Im not sure where you get the bottleneck idea from because human dna specific is not specific to humans. Humans share dna with sub sect Hominidae species and also has varients through set spaced races. With inter change through races and sub races the diversity is more advanced then previously thought. I think maybe if you are honestly interested in this type of thing to look up the work of Chiara Romualdi.

The bottleneck occured when there was only one species of hominids left, well two, but the 'hobbits' were not breeding with ****** sapiens.

It occured in Africa after the end of the last ice age, which is why modern man shows little characteristics of neanderthal DNA, those who interbred died off in Europe, the middle east, and north Africa. 

#18
DeinonSlayer

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David7204 wrote...

That would have been horrible and caused the ruination of a great DLC.

Uh, okay... I know you said the Liara kiss at its conclusion is the greatest moment of any fiction ever, but how would it have been a negative plot development that they're influencing us in such a way?

#19
shingara

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Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Not bad, David, though there would need to be heavy emphasis on why indoctrination plays such a pivotal role in Reaper victory. It's better than the "essence of a species"/"superior genetic diversity" BS from canon. Humans actually have very low genetic diversity owing to a bottleneck event about 100,000 years ago.


 Im not sure where you get the bottleneck idea from because human dna specific is not specific to humans. Humans share dna with sub sect Hominidae species and also has varients through set spaced races. With inter change through races and sub races the diversity is more advanced then previously thought. I think maybe if you are honestly interested in this type of thing to look up the work of Chiara Romualdi.

The bottleneck occured when there was only one species of hominids left, well two, but the 'hobbits' were not breeding with ****** sapiens.

It occured in Africa after the end of the last ice age, which is why modern man shows little characteristics of neanderthal DNA, those who interbred died off in Europe, the middle east, and north Africa. 



 I have no idea where your getting your ideas from but they are wrong. Hominidae species include all varient races of humans, all races of gorrilas, orangutans, Chimps, lemur with off branch species including mice etc etc etc.

Modifié par shingara, 06 août 2013 - 11:58 .


#20
Steelcan

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shingara wrote...


 I have no idea where your getting your ideas from but they are wrong. Hominidae species include all varient races of humans, all races of gorrilas, orangutans, Chimps, lemur with off branch species including mice etc etc etc.

You clealry do not understand the diusctinction of the hominid branch from that of the other great apes, from monkeys, or prosimians.

#21
shingara

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Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...


 I have no idea where your getting your ideas from but they are wrong. Hominidae species include all varient races of humans, all races of gorrilas, orangutans, Chimps, lemur with off branch species including mice etc etc etc.

You clealry do not understand the diusctinction of the hominid branch from that of the other great apes, from monkeys, or prosimians.


Hominidae is the collection of the species. You clearly do not understand the fact that through the Hominidae species the shared dna and varients is not just prominent but shared. Your confused by the fact that you think that what is on the outside of the box defines whats inside it.

Modifié par shingara, 07 août 2013 - 12:05 .


#22
Steelcan

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shingara wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...


 I have no idea where your getting your ideas from but they are wrong. Hominidae species include all varient races of humans, all races of gorrilas, orangutans, Chimps, lemur with off branch species including mice etc etc etc.

You clealry do not understand the diusctinction of the hominid branch from that of the other great apes, from monkeys, or prosimians.


Hominidae is the collection of the species. You clearly do not understand the fact that through the Hominidae species the shared dna and varients is not just prominent but shared. Your confused by the fact that you think that what is on the outside of the box defines whats inside it.

Humans cannot interbreed with any other species and produce a viable and fertile offspring, possubly with neanderthals, but DNA evidence suggests such couplings were rare and likely had little affect on human DNA make up.

When the human population was reduced to such a small amount genetic diversity tanked, the smae event also hit cheetahs, subsequently humans actually have fairly low genetic diversity when compared to other species.

#23
shingara

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Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...


 I have no idea where your getting your ideas from but they are wrong. Hominidae species include all varient races of humans, all races of gorrilas, orangutans, Chimps, lemur with off branch species including mice etc etc etc.

You clealry do not understand the diusctinction of the hominid branch from that of the other great apes, from monkeys, or prosimians.


Hominidae is the collection of the species. You clearly do not understand the fact that through the Hominidae species the shared dna and varients is not just prominent but shared. Your confused by the fact that you think that what is on the outside of the box defines whats inside it.

Humans cannot interbreed with any other species and produce a viable and fertile offspring, possubly with neanderthals, but DNA evidence suggests such couplings were rare and likely had little affect on human DNA make up.

When the human population was reduced to such a small amount genetic diversity tanked, the smae event also hit cheetahs, subsequently humans actually have fairly low genetic diversity when compared to other species.



 So let me get this right, you think for dna to be shared you have to be able to hump and have a kid with something within that species. thanks, you just gave me a laugh. The exact criteria for membership in the Homininae are not clear, but the subfamily generally includes those species which share more than 97% of their DNA with the modern human genome, and exhibit a capacity for language or for simple cultures beyond the family or band. And that there doesnt involve shaggin the thing.

Modifié par shingara, 07 août 2013 - 12:08 .


#24
Steelcan

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Anyways, on topic.

I actually do like this idea David, I'm curious to see what you would have Cerberus do in ME3 based off of this.

#25
Steelcan

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shingara wrote...


 So let me get this right, you think for dna to be shared you have to be able to hump and have a kid with something within that species. thanks, you just gave me a laugh. The exact criteria for membership in the Homininae are not clear, but the subfamily generally includes those species which share more than 97% of their DNA with the modern human genome, and exhibit a capacity for language or for simple cultures beyond the family or band.

You are misunderstanding me.  We may "share" DNA with chimpanzees, lemurs, australopithicenes, etc... But that is irrelevent to what I am saying.  Human diversity took a hit because of a population bottleneck, and since humantiy cannot interbreed with other species this lack of genetic diversity ahs persisted for millenia.