80 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

Steelcan wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
While possible for some species such as turians, salarians, etc... It is unlikely for krogan or asari.

Asari not so much, they do bring up a dependance on other species to widen their limited genepool.

But doing so would greatly expand it, and such unions are considered very widespread. 

Fair point.

[shingara]

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...


Interbreeding causes a lack of dna diversity, im not sure what that has todo with dna diversity itself as interbreeding is relativly rare within humans.  Most notible case of interbreeding is the doma people who have a severe lack of genetic diversity.

lol

but if the population were reduced to a few thousand individuals, confined to a geographically small area, the African Rift Valley, and that small population lasted for several thousand years, the results on the descendent's genetic make up would be very great indeed.

A similar event, even more extreme happened to cheetahs at roughly the same time.  Now most cheetahs are are at best 4th cousins.

 Wouldnt matter, the genetic diversity would be re enhanced through mutation and enviromental factors that manipulate the dna and genes of the humans who migrated out. Then when other races of humans then were introuduced in the most common case via war or commerce the mutations of dna and genes is then passed through the liniages of those lines. Obviously this wouldnt happen over night and would take thousands of years for the proccess to happen.

 Diseases are a major factor for mutation and  specific regional areas will be effect by this but not others thus giving rise to these specific alterations.

Modifié par shingara, 07 août 2013 - 12:57 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Han Shot First wrote...

Yes, but it is silly have the Reapers saying "your genetic diversity makes you special" when the humans are not genetically diverse at all. That supervolcano eruption left us an endangered species, hovering near extinction. Did every space faring species have a Toba in its past?

The Drell probably came closest to it. As I understand the numbers, even the Quarians had more survivors (thus more diversity).

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
While possible for some species such as turians, salarians, etc... It is unlikely for krogan or asari.

Asari not so much, they do bring up a dependance on other species to widen their limited genepool.

That doesn't make any sense; asari don't take DNA from their second parent.

But they use it as a template for their offspring, so while actual genetic material is not transfered, the DNA is scrambled for want of a better term.

[Steelcan]

shingara wrote...

 Wouldnt matter, the genetic diversity would be re enhanced through mutation and enviromental factors that manipulate the dna and genes of the humans who migrated out. Then when other races of humans then were introuduced in the most common case via war or commerce the mutations of dna and genes is then passed through the liniages of those lines. Obviously this wouldnt happen over night and would take thousands of years for the proccess to happen.

 Diseases are a major factor for mutation and  specific regional areas will be effect by this but not others thus giving rise to these specific alterations.

Probabaly hundreds of thousands of years.  Longer than humanity has existed.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Yes, but it is silly have the Reapers saying "your genetic diversity makes you special" when the humans are not genetically diverse at all. That supervolcano eruption left us an endangered species, hovering near extinction. Did every space faring species have a Toba in its past?

The Drell probably came closest to it. As I understand the numbers, even the Quarians had more survivors (thus more diversity).

The Drell had a few hundred thousand escape Rakhana.  Is there an exact number on quarians?  Is the 117 million the result of a stable population, limited growth or a steady decline?

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Yes, but it is silly have the Reapers saying "your genetic diversity makes you special" when the humans are not genetically diverse at all. That supervolcano eruption left us an endangered species, hovering near extinction. Did every space faring species have a Toba in its past?

The Drell probably came closest to it. As I understand the numbers, even the Quarians had more survivors (thus more diversity).

The Drell had a few hundred thousand escape Rakhana.  Is there an exact number on quarians?  Is the 117 million the result of a stable population, limited growth or a steady decline?

As I understand, they maintained zero population growth since the exile. Then again, the first book says only a "few" million survived, so they might have expanded to 17 million from a lower number, then levelled out.

[shingara]

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...

 Wouldnt matter, the genetic diversity would be re enhanced through mutation and enviromental factors that manipulate the dna and genes of the humans who migrated out. Then when other races of humans then were introuduced in the most common case via war or commerce the mutations of dna and genes is then passed through the liniages of those lines. Obviously this wouldnt happen over night and would take thousands of years for the proccess to happen.

 Diseases are a major factor for mutation and  specific regional areas will be effect by this but not others thus giving rise to these specific alterations.

Probabaly hundreds of thousands of years.  Longer than humanity has existed.

 not so, the alterations would happen rather rapidly in the cosmic sense, it is only within recent times that lives last over a hundred years, previously before the mass expansion of medicine and the understand of the human physiology the average lifespan was around 30 years max. So within a hundred years with disease poping up all the time either through, war, famine etc you could have 4-6 generations of a line. All those mutations and alterations passed from one, add to passed to another etc. And that is without the consideration of transient behavior and breeding with humans for other often far away populations.

Modifié par shingara, 07 août 2013 - 01:05 .

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

As I understand, they maintained zero population growth since the exile. Then again, the first book says only a "few" million survived, so they might have expanded to 17 million from a lower number, then levelled out.

One day I'll get around to reading those books....

Given their cramped conditions, and the knowledge that high density populations produce fewer offspring it might be possible that they have been declining since then.  A smaller population would ease their situation.

[Steelcan]

shingara wrote...


 not so, the alterations would happen rather rapidly in the cosmic sense, it is only within recent times that lives last over a hundred years, previously before the mass expansion of medicine and the understand of the human physiology the average lifespan was around 30 years max. So within a hundred years with disease poping up all the time either through, war, famine etc you could have 4-6 generations of a line. All those mutations and alterations based from one, add to passed to another etc. And that is without the consideration of transient behavior and breeding with humans for other often faer away populations.

Not true, evidence from ice age digs, as well as copper age, and even into medieval times suggests many lived into their 60's.  Typically agrarian societies in Europe, China, and Central/North America.  When massive cities started cropping up, ie London, Paris, Rome, then did lifespan start to decline..

/nitpick.

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

As I understand, they maintained zero population growth since the exile. Then again, the first book says only a "few" million survived, so they might have expanded to 17 million from a lower number, then levelled out.

One day I'll get around to reading those books....

Given their cramped conditions, and the knowledge that high density populations produce fewer offspring it might be possible that they have been declining since then.  A smaller population would ease their situation.

We know that "billions," plural, died in the war, and "less than one percent" of the population escaped. With a minimum starting population of two billion, that means a maximum of twenty million survivors. It comes down to how many ships they had to start with, how many people they could feed, things which we simply don't know. I've never heard any figure other than 50,000 ships, with older ones replaced over time.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 août 2013 - 01:09 .

[shingara]

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...


 not so, the alterations would happen rather rapidly in the cosmic sense, it is only within recent times that lives last over a hundred years, previously before the mass expansion of medicine and the understand of the human physiology the average lifespan was around 30 years max. So within a hundred years with disease poping up all the time either through, war, famine etc you could have 4-6 generations of a line. All those mutations and alterations based from one, add to passed to another etc. And that is without the consideration of transient behavior and breeding with humans for other often faer away populations.

Not true, evidence from ice age digs, as well as copper age, and even into medieval times suggests many lived into their 60's.  Typically agrarian societies in Europe, China, and Central/North America.  When massive cities started cropping up, ie London, Paris, Rome, then did lifespan start to decline..

/nitpick.

 whilst some could live to 60 it was far from the average, without the medicins we have today disease and famines hit popualtions much more viriently then today. Not to mention the dangers from every day life and working.

[Steelcan]

shingara wrote...

 whilst some could live to 60 it was far from the average, without the medicins we have today disease and famines hit popualtions much more viriently then today. Not to mention the dangers from every day life and working.

Again, in relatively isolated rural/agrain socities, not the average city or town dweller.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

As I understand, they maintained zero population growth since the exile. Then again, the first book says only a "few" million survived, so they might have expanded to 17 million from a lower number, then levelled out.

One day I'll get around to reading those books....

Given their cramped conditions, and the knowledge that high density populations produce fewer offspring it might be possible that they have been declining since then.  A smaller population would ease their situation.

We know that "billions," plural, died in the war, and "less than one percent" of the population escaped. With a minimum starting population of two billion, that means a maximum of twenty million survivors. It comes down to how many ships they had to start with, how many people they could feed, things which we simply don't know. I've never heard any figure other than 50,000 ships, with older ones replaced over time.

I'm inclined to believe that they had a much higher starting population, probably on par with the turians, and a somewhat equal escaped population size ~17 million.

[shingara]

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...

 whilst some could live to 60 it was far from the average, without the medicins we have today disease and famines hit popualtions much more viriently then today. Not to mention the dangers from every day life and working.

Again, in relatively isolated rural/agrain socities, not the average city or town dweller.

 taking it to the wall.

[Clayless]

I like most of the idea David. Perhaps the reason for keeping the technology would be in the hopes that you could use it against the Reapers, by taking control of their troops and perhaps even a Reaper?

Of course you would be giving this technology to Cerberus.

shingara wrote...

-I'm ruining the thread by taking it off topic-

Stop ruining the thread by taking it off topic.

[David7204]

What parts don't you like?

[shingara]

Robosexual wrote...

shingara wrote...

-I'm ruining the thread by taking it off topic-

Stop ruining the thread by taking it off topic.

 grow a brain, he original had how the goo couldnt be used. not off topic. and if anything, ive helped him keep this thread up.

Modifié par shingara, 07 août 2013 - 01:33 .

[ShepnTali]

shingara wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

shingara wrote...

-I'm ruining the thread by taking it off topic-

Stop ruining the thread by taking it off topic.

 grow a brain, he original had how the goo couldnt be used. not off topic. and if anything, ive helped him keep this thread up.

There are pills for that.

[ShepnTali]

The idea seems pretty good to me, roughly.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

shingara wrote...

 whilst some could live to 60 it was far from the average, without the medicins we have today disease and famines hit popualtions much more viriently then today. Not to mention the dangers from every day life and working.

Again, in relatively isolated rural/agrain socities, not the average city or town dweller.

How is this relevant to heroism?

[David7204]

ShepnTali wrote...

The idea seems pretty good to me, roughly.

Roughly, huh? What problems do you have with it?

[Clayless]

David7204 wrote...

What parts don't you like?

Effectively it means there's a lack of explanation for the Reapers motives, and in an attempt to weaken the Reapers you made it so their numbers are pretty much "as much as they can build".

Whilst they are unbeatable demi-gods in the trilogy, and it makes no difference to their power in the plot, their capital ships are technically restricted. Removing their indoctination would make little difference as you've granted them the ability to make an infinite amount of capital ships in exchange.

[ShepnTali]

David7204 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

The idea seems pretty good to me, roughly.

Roughly, huh? What problems do you have with it?

I only say that because my memory tends to be poor on details, and I don't know what / if other tweaks would need to be made. It generally seems reasonable, with more purpose in the plot.