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Ways to Help the Race Investment Pay Off?


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#1
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The devs have said it's no small amount of work to include race choices but are going through with it anyway. So, I'd like to propose simple, hopefully easily implemented features to make the races more appealing, so more people will want to play them, so the devs will feel it's worth the time and effort to implement them. =)

Before proceeding, I will acknowledge that many players will always prefer humans no matter what, and/or feel that human gameplay advantages will always be more appealing, and that's cool. It's their prerogative. A lot of people feel the same about non-humans. However, I've also noticed many "neutral" players who pick races for solid bonuses.

A common criticism for DA:O player races has been the lack of solid gameplay advantages for elves/dwarves that humans can't also get. Common praise for DA:O's Human Noble Origin was getting the Mabari sooner, and being able to become king queen at the end. By contrast, roughly 20% of players picked non-humans. Of those, most of the 15% of elves seem to have been mages to reap the magic and mana bonuses, and most of the 5% of dwarves were nobles to get Gorim's discount.

So, I propose expanding on the advantages so they can be more appealing this game.

1) Higher Stat Bonuses. In DA:O, dwarves got 10% magic resistance but couldn't be mages, which honestly seems like a small gain for losing an entire class. The elves had +3 magic and +2 mana, and that was it. Many players felt the dwarf wasn't worth it since they could get Templar armor fairly early for the same bonus, and the elf stat bonus was negligible.

For DA:I, I propose increasing dwarf magic resistance to maybe 15-20% (again, making up for losing a class, and making it higher than magic-resistant items for first half or 3/4ths of the game) and the elves to maybe +3 magic and +2 mana so their stat bonuses are more noticeable? Maybe give both dwarves and elves some extra physical stat points? That way, mage-friendly dwarves and non-magic elves can still be desirable.

2) Discounts/Exclusive Items. In DA:O, Dwarf Nobles got a great discount from Gorim. I propose a similar feature for all non-humans for DA:I. Maybe have one or two dwarven vendors offer a dwarven protagonist discounts and/or specialty items for whatever reason: old friend, xenophobic, etc.

Same with elves. Yeah, most people figure city elven vendors wouldn't have anything humans want anyway, but discounts are always nice. Plus, maybe a Dalish and/or Mage Elf vendor could have a secret stash of desirable items? For instance, any protagonist can buy from a Dalish Camp, but non-elves get standard items while fellow elves can get the "specialty" named items, magic weapons, craft substances, higher tier armor and weapons (+Dex Dalish armor), etc.

3) More In-Game Acknowledgement. In DA:O, many players felt that not enough characters acknowledged the protagonist's race. I have more faith for DA:I since the devs have vowed to fix the lack of in-game acknowledgement like for ME backgrounds and DA Origins. Still, it bears repeating to include more frequent comments from NPC's, more in-depth conversations with companions, maybe a race-specific quest or two, etc.

4) Cooler appearances. For DA:O, many people felt the elves were "just slim pointy-eared humans," and the dwarves "just short, guerilla-armed humans." In fact, many female players felt that elven women were less attractive than human women (which I sadly agree with), and dwarven women had ugly orangutan arms, qne I've actually seen many female players claim to pick human women just to look prettier.

People care how their character look, so a quick fix would be making elves and dwarves (and kossith??) look cooler, sexier, and even more exotic; which is what the devs are doing anyway. Still, this would still be a good way to draw more "meh" players; or at least not scare them away.


So, your turn. Any thoughts, suggestions, hopefully fairly easily(ish) implemented ideas that you think can help make non-human protagonists more desirable than the first game, and thus more worth the investment?

- Edited to make the proposed stat increases not so game-breaking.

- Fixed the title.

Modifié par Faerunner, 08 août 2013 - 03:07 .


#2
Ziggeh

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I don't understand what's going on here.

In a single player narrative driven game where the racial choice has story implications do people really pick characters based on minor statistical advantage?

Surely you pick them because they lend an immediate identifiable perspective. And because dwarves are better.

#3
garrusfan1

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I am just happy they are doing it

#4
brushyourteeth

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Ziggeh wrote...

I don't understand what's going on here.

In a single player narrative driven game where the racial choice has story implications do people really pick characters based on minor statistical advantage?

Surely you pick them because they lend an immediate identifiable perspective. And because dwarves are better.



Hear, hear!

Though I do understand the point that the OP is trying to make, and I applaud it. Trying out new races should be its own reward, though other incentives are great too. For me those big incentives were the prologues and epilogues of DA:O.

I have been literally shaking with delight at getting to play a dwarf again, but I will probably eventually play all options (even though I have to be a human all day in real life).

#5
Potato Cat

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Why not just make a elf the default and first available in the CC screen? I think that's part of it for non-serious DA players.

#6
Taleroth

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Stop making the story revolve around humans. Elves and Dwarves were support cast in DAO. Denerim was what mattered.

I'd like to see the stats on people playing Dunmer in Morrowind.

#7
brushyourteeth

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Elfman wrote...

Why not just make a elf the default and first available in the CC screen? I think that's part of it for non-serious DA players.



I LOL'd because it's true.

#8
ladyiolanthe

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They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.

#9
garrusfan1

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ladyiolanthe wrote...

They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.

this

#10
Ziegrif

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Are they letting me play an elf?
If so YAY!!

As funny as it may sound I like being persecuted for silly reasons in videogames.
Gives me a default reason to enact horrible horrible genocide on poor unsuspecting racist bandits.

#11
The dead fish

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I never played male elves in DAO. Too feminine to my taste infortunately. :/ They are already small, skinny, without hair... Each time I played an Elf in DA, it was a female PC.

In Skyrim, I could enjoy my male elves with good male facial features, I'd like to be able to do the same in DA. But I'm aware, that's just me, so whatever XD !

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 août 2013 - 10:52 .


#12
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Ziggeh wrote...

In a single player narrative driven game where the racial choice has story implications do people really pick characters based on minor statistical advantage?


From what I've seen in the forums and online: yes.

I've seen many female players openly admit to choosing human protagonists (or at least shying away from elves and/or dwarves) because they preferred the way they looked.

I've seen many people shrug off non-human options by saying: "What can I experience as an elf or dwarf that I can't experience as a human, except what it's like to be discriminated against?" or "What can I get as an elf or dwarf that I can't get as a human?"

"Why would I be a dwarf when I can just get Templar armor for the same magic resistance?"

"Why would I want to be a Bann [CE] or a Paragon [Dwarf] when I can be King/Queen of Freaking Ferelden?"

"I want to marry Alistair and be Queen, so I'll go with the Human Noble Origin."

I've seen many online walkthroughs and class guides say: "The Human (Noble) is the best because it lets you do X, so go with that one."

"If you're going to be a dwarf, the Dwarf Noble lets you get a great discount with Gorim, so do X to get to him soonest to get the most gold/items from him." Or "I played a dwarf noble because [see above]."

"Elves don't have any bonuses to str/dex, so skip it for a warrior/rogue." "The only reason to play the CE for a Rogue is to get Fang, one of the best daggers in the game. But it's bugged for the PC, so..."

I would like the devs to learn from DA:O and make the races more desirable this time around.


Surely you pick them because they lend an immediate identifiable perspective. And because dwarves are better.


I do, but not everyone does.

Like I said, there are people who feel strongly both ways. There are those who feel strongly enough to play humans no matter what and those feel strongly enough to play elves/dwarves no matter what. In the middle, there are people who don't feel that strongly either way and will go with whatever race offers neat incentives. Maybe one looks cool, another looks like s/he'll offer some neat role-playing experiences, they have cool discounts, exclusive items, bonus material, etc. If it looks unsatisfying or doesn't seem to offer anything they can't get as a human (as many players felt around Ostagar in DA:O), they'll just go back to the "default" human.

I'm just offering and asking for suggestions that could fix up little issues with race selection in DA:O.

Modifié par Faerunner, 06 août 2013 - 10:56 .


#13
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It would be interesting to see how much more "appealing" statistically the other races would become if they did nothing but randomize the default race/sex at character creation.

#14
dragondreamer

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Sylvianus wrote...

I never played male elves in DAO. Too feminine to my taste infortunately. :/ They are already small, skinny, without hair... Each time I played an Elf in DA, it was a female PC.

In Skyrim, I could enjoy my male elves with good male facial features, I'd like to be able to do the same in DA. But I'm aware, that's just me, so whatever XD !


I like some androgyny, and I find the male elves suit that best.  :wizard:

#15
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ladyiolanthe wrote...

They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.


Oh! That's actually a great idea!

brushyourteeth wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Why not just make a elf the default and first available in the CC screen? I think that's part of it for non-serious DA players.



I LOL'd because it's true.


Filament wrote...

It would be interesting to see how much more "appealing" statistically the other races would become if they did nothing but randomize the default race/sex at character creation.


These are also great points.

Modifié par Faerunner, 06 août 2013 - 11:06 .


#16
MilaBanilla

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Ziegrif wrote...

Are they letting me play an elf?
If so YAY!!

As funny as it may sound I like being persecuted for silly reasons in videogames.
Gives me a default reason to enact horrible horrible genocide on poor unsuspecting racist bandits.


I love the way you think :D
I did the same thing when my dalish elf was mistreated and there was an option to kill the bigot.

#17
ladyiolanthe

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Faerunner wrote...

ladyiolanthe wrote...

They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.


Oh! That's actually a great idea!


To back myself up here's a quote. It's in the Game Informer article under the "Races Return" sidebar:

"The starting point for all characters is unified from a story perspective, but your racial choice still colours your interactions with others. For instance, elves may be persecuted in some areas, but an enclave of elves is more likely to open up to one of their own."

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 06 août 2013 - 11:43 .


#18
duckley

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If most people play as humans I think it is interesting that Bioware would invest the time and energy into providing the opportunity to have another race lead the Inquisition. Personally I would only pkay as a human, or if they make elves pretty again, I would play as an Elf. I guess this makes those of you who prefer playing as another race happy!

#19
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ladyiolanthe wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

ladyiolanthe wrote...

They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.


Oh! That's actually a great idea!


To back myself up here's a quote. It's in the Game Informer article under the "Races Return" sidebar:

"The starting point for all characters is unified from a story perspective, but your racial choice still colours your interactions with others. For instance, elves may be persecuted in some areas, but an enclave of elves is more likely to open up to one of their own."


That's actually really great, both from a roleplay and gameplay perspective. I can't wait to see how this plays out! Image IPB

#20
Annihilator27

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Have they shown the new elf look?

#21
DarkKnightHolmes

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Annihilator27 wrote...

Have they shown the new elf look?


They showed a game model of it.

#22
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I think they need to do two main things to increase interest in non human races. A) Use those races in marketing. B) Don't have a default human warrior auto selected at the beginning of the game. Actually have all race choices appear on screen at once and don't prioritize one.

#23
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ive yet to play a game where the race choice mattered, so i play what i prefer to look at

#24
funmachine

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Mila-banilla wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Are they letting me play an elf?
If so YAY!!

As funny as it may sound I like being persecuted for silly reasons in videogames.
Gives me a default reason to enact horrible horrible genocide on poor unsuspecting racist bandits.


I love the way you think :D
I did the same thing when my dalish elf was mistreated and there was an option to kill the bigot.




+1 for righteous genocidal fury! :lol:

#25
WardenWade

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Faerunner wrote...

ladyiolanthe wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

ladyiolanthe wrote...

They did mention in one of the articles that playing an elf would get you advantages in places like elven alienages - you'd get more from the alienage elves than a human or a dwarf would. I assume similar holds true for dwarves.


Oh! That's actually a great idea!


To back myself up here's a quote. It's in the Game Informer article under the "Races Return" sidebar:

"The starting point for all characters is unified from a story perspective, but your racial choice still colours your interactions with others. For instance, elves may be persecuted in some areas, but an enclave of elves is more likely to open up to one of their own."


That's actually really great, both from a roleplay and gameplay perspective. I can't wait to see how this plays out! Image IPB


I like this.  Exploring the cultures of the different races as a member rather than an "outsider" is something I always wanted from DAI.  And I think doing so might bring encourage players to enjoy the race options as well, much as with Origins.