58 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfva2]

Seboist wrote...

klarabella wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

Then don't play games with pre-rolled characters.  After all, we may be playing Shep, but he's still his own person, and we have to play him within that framework.  Ie, an honorable, persistant, soldier who will do what it takes to accomplish his mission.  He's going to care about people the player may not.  Get over it.

I would just like to point out that "honorable" and "will do whatever it takes" are antonymous.

Not in a video game like ME. It's pretty much standard to shoot people in the face because why the hell not (and being part of the wrong faction is punishable by death anyway) unless they are given a name and maybe ask for mercy ... then I pardon you. Shepard the good. Also Shepard the naive, Shepard the moron...

I love how BW has me ruthlessly slaughter hundreds of mercs but then expects me to seriously ponder whether or not i should kill that one guy by the glass in Thane's LM. 

YEAH!  That's like, so freaking idiotic.  I guess it harkens back to the action movies...you know, where the hero has ruthlessly killed hordes of nameless henchmen; dangled them from rooftops to get info then dropping them with a 'Have a nice trip'  or setting them on fire and muttering, "Hey, you look a little hot under the collar."  Then they get to the named guy and it's all, "OH NOES!  I'm the HERO!  I'm NOBLE!  I must let you live to show how good I am!"  Of course, the bad guy then pulls his hidden weapon (which would have come in MUCH handier earlier, but how else can he show he's eeeEEEEEvvvviillllll) and attacks the hero who effortlessly tosses him out a window or blasts him with their empty gun or something.  Gods I hate that trope!

And why can't the enemy ever surrender?  Ok, sure.  In ME3 Cerb troops were basically half-husks.  But the other games?  Just once I'd've liked to hear, "OK men, the enemy is coming!  I want snipers on the balcony!  Let's get some mechs to the east and...and...what was that?   It's SHEPARD?   WE SURRENDER!   DON"T SHOOT!   I WANT TO LIIIIIVE!!!!"  Let's be honest here; mercs fight for money.  You don't get paid if you're dead.  WHY would they take on Shep?  Hell, the only ones who ever beat him were the collectors and they had to blow up the Normandy to do it...and all dying did was ****** him off. 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

While a decent idea. This still forces emotion on Shepard the player may dislike. For instance, Cass-Shepard already dealt with PTSD prior to the events of ME1. That was my personal headcanon and what I used to shape her character. ME1 and ME2 maintained a degree of vagueness that allowed player imagination to fill in blanks - merely handing out the template. What bothers people is BioWare abruptly deciding in the third game to yank control away and insert their own presumptions of development.

Personally, I ignore the dream sequences in every file.

@Ventus

Misread that first part as your post. No wondering it seemed so out of place. 

"I Remember Me" and "Dead Scientists" deal overtly with shepard's ptsd in colony and sole survivor backstories.  I was surprised at how emotional IRM was, and how different DS was when you had sole survivor as your backstory  (If you shoot the scientist the dialogue changes make it like shepard did it on a personal vendeta)

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Wolfva2 wrote...


And why can't the enemy ever surrender?  Ok, sure.  In ME3 Cerb troops were basically half-husks.  But the other games?  Just once I'd've liked to hear, "OK men, the enemy is coming!  I want snipers on the balcony!  Let's get some mechs to the east and...and...what was that?   It's SHEPARD?   WE SURRENDER!   DON"T SHOOT!   I WANT TO LIIIIIVE!!!!"  Let's be honest here; mercs fight for money.  You don't get paid if you're dead.  WHY would they take on Shep?  Hell, the only ones who ever beat him were the collectors and they had to blow up the Normandy to do it...and all dying did was ****** him off. 

in me1 there was plenty of characters that surrender or tell you they dont want trouble.  a good early example is when you raid chora's den you can gain the option to talk two kids out of guarding fist if you get to them before they realise what's going on.  ME2 is written differently and filled itself with idiot action movie villains in every quest. 

[wolfhowwl]

Seboist wrote...
I love how BW has me ruthlessly slaughter hundreds of mercs but then expects me to seriously ponder whether or not i should kill that one guy by the glass in Thane's LM. 

Mercenaries are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

In case you consider that private military contractors are legal and acting as bodyguards is a legitimate job, here they are gunning down innocent construction workers, look how evil they are! Can't have Shepard doing something morally questionable like killing people just doing their job.

We never fight anyone we could feel that bad about killing, just terrorists, pirates, reaper slaves. They have it coming or like the Cerberus grunts, well, for them death is probably a release. How very safe, how heroic.

Before I played ME3, I had read about the Geth/Quarian war. I had thought that if you sided with the robots your opponents would be Quarian soldiers, just fighting for their people's survival and they would be in the right. Probably a first for mooks in the ME series. Or from the other side, fight Geth that are not compelled by the Reapers to attack you.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 07 août 2013 - 10:39 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

StreetMagic wrote...

Sole Survivor doesn't necessarily have PTSD. You can choose to be dismissive and flippant about it.. so even if he/she is traumatized, they're not interested in telling anyone at least. It's more like "Whatever." Think back on the origin story questions in ME2. Miranda and Jacob ask about it in their "quiz".

Shepard: "Yeah, I remember. Lots of blood. People dying. I was the only one who was focused on surviving."

Same with comments from Ashley, when she asks about Akuze. She tries to say her god was watching over you. Shepard can blow her off and tell he survived because he simply refused to die. This is a person with a lot of willpower. Not trauma.

or someone putting on a brave face, someone who's lieing to themselves.  (Denial shepard)

[Wolfva2]

StreetMagic wrote...

I can't remember any action movies like that actually (not to say there aren't any though. Not any good ones, I think). Usually the hero is stalled at the end because the villain has leverage in one way or another (vital info, a hostage, etc).

Lethal Weapon
Lethal Weapon 2.
about half the Schwartzenegger and almost all the Van Damme movies of the 90s-millenium
Die Hard



Of course, you DID say 'good ones'...so you get  a pass <LOL>.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

StreetMagic wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...


or someone putting on a brave face, someone who's lieing to themselves.  (Denial shepard)

If that was the case though, he wouldn't make it past the dozens of situations you play through. You can't fake survivability.

It would seem that Sole Survivor even purposely puts himself in these situations. Jenkins says in ME1 that Sole Survivor Shep could make a good Spectre, since he's always being thrown into impossible situations. So it seems to be more than just Akuze at this point.


Not to say Shepard isn't crazy though. Vega nicknames all (male) Shepards as crazy.

faking it can get you through alot.

[Ice Cold J]

 Nice idea! Would've been cool.

And I'm a little upset that Talitha never showed up again except in email form... 

[dorktainian]

people still thinking it's a kid and they're dreams. roflmao.

[NeonFlux117]

Well, harby and the reaper's don't really care about sheps history, only that he/she see's oily shadows, reapers sounds, and whispers in the dark.....

You know, standard dream stuff. Nothing out of place or anything.

Just regular PTSD and war fatigue dream. Yep. Cause shep so has PTSD and war fatigue. Shep is just terrified and scared to death about reapers. In fact shep can't cope. Why Shepard can barely fight the reapers. In fact, I think shepard is a shell of the shepard from the previous games. Shepards PTSD and war fatigue paralyzes him/her.Sheps depressed, edgy and out a shape and can't relate to his/her friends anymore. Shep feels couped up and shep's anxious and scared of the reapers. Shepard can't lead. Can't fight reapers anymore.

Oh wait.... Damn, Shep's none of those things.

So then, what are the dreams really saying?

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 07 août 2013 - 01:56 .

[DeinonSlayer]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Seboist wrote...
I love how BW has me ruthlessly slaughter hundreds of mercs but then expects me to seriously ponder whether or not i should kill that one guy by the glass in Thane's LM.

Mercenaries are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

In case you consider that private military contractors are legal and acting as bodyguards is a legitimate job, here they are gunning down innocent construction workers, look how evil they are! Can't have Shepard doing something morally questionable like killing people just doing their job.

We never fight anyone we could feel that bad about killing, just terrorists, pirates, reaper slaves. They have it coming or like the Cerberus grunts, well, for them death is probably a release. How very safe, how heroic.

Before I played ME3, I had read about the Geth/Quarian war. I had thought that if you sided with the robots your opponents would be Quarian soldiers, just fighting for their people's survival and they would be in the right. Probably a first for mooks in the ME series. Or from the other side, fight Geth that are not compelled by the Reapers to attack you.

Such was the case for choosing to side with the werewolves or the dalish in DA:O. You couldn't select a side for extinction and then sit back and shrug it off afterwards with next to no objection from your team. You had to get your hands dirty.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 août 2013 - 02:53 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Well, harby and the reaper's don't really care about sheps history, only that he/she see's oily shadows, reapers sounds, and whispers in the dark.....

You know, standard dream stuff. Nothing out of place or anything.

Just regular PTSD and war fatigue dream. Yep. Cause shep so has PTSD and war fatigue. Shep is just terrified and scared to death about reapers. In fact shep can't cope. Why Shepard can barely fight the reapers. In fact, I think shepard is a shell of the shepard from the previous games. Shepards PTSD and war fatigue paralyzes him/her.Sheps depressed, edgy and out a shape and can't relate to his/her friends anymore. Shep feels couped up and shep's anxious and scared of the reapers. Shepard can't lead. Can't fight reapers anymore.

Oh wait.... Damn, Shep's none of those things.

So then, what are the dreams really saying?

You just quoted 90% of me3's story and shepard's actions within that game.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

While a decent idea. This still forces emotion on Shepard the player may dislike. For instance, Cass-Shepard already dealt with PTSD prior to the events of ME1. That was my personal headcanon and what I used to shape her character. ME1 and ME2 maintained a degree of vagueness that allowed player imagination to fill in blanks - merely handing out the template. What bothers people is BioWare abruptly deciding in the third game to yank control away and insert their own presumptions of development.

Personally, I ignore the dream sequences in every file.

@Ventus

Misread that first part as your post. No wondering it seemed so out of place. 

"I Remember Me" and "Dead Scientists" deal overtly with shepard's ptsd in colony and sole survivor backstories.  I was surprised at how emotional IRM was, and how different DS was when you had sole survivor as your backstory  (If you shoot the scientist the dialogue changes make it like shepard did it on a personal vendeta)

"I Remember Me" focuses on Tabitha's PTSD, not Shepard's. You can play the role of compassionate, tough love, annoyance or outright have her killed. Likewise, in "Dead Scientists," Shepard has a similar reacting to Corporal Tombs. You can certainly headcanon PTSD but it is not explicitly implied.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Sole Survivor doesn't necessarily have PTSD. You can choose to be dismissive and flippant about it.. so even if he/she is traumatized, they're not interested in telling anyone at least. It's more like "Whatever." Think back on the origin story questions in ME2. Miranda and Jacob ask about it in their "quiz".

Shepard: "Yeah, I remember. Lots of blood. People dying. I was the only one who was focused on surviving."

Same with comments from Ashley, when she asks about Akuze. She tries to say her god was watching over you. Shepard can blow her off and tell he survived because he simply refused to die. This is a person with a lot of willpower. Not trauma.

or someone putting on a brave face, someone who's lieing to themselves.  (Denial shepard)

Well, that might explain why Shepard conveniently never mentions it to TIM throughout ME2.

Nevertheless, you seem unwilling to accept other people's beliefs or imaginations beyond your own. Therefore, I see no point to this thread. People will disagree because what you have is theory, not fact. For instance, my Cassandra Shepard is Earthborn/Ruthless.

This shepard is earthborn and would be closer tied to earth, so it might make more sense for them to sort of reflect on seeing that kid in parralel to themselves.

Nope. Cass has little love for Earth, citing it the worst time of her life. That period is what defined her jaded perspective and severe anti-trust issues. Given the choice, she would never return. All the references to Earth in ME3, I headcanon as it being where the bulk of the reaper fleet is located, thus the only reason Cass gives a damn about Earth.

This Shepard reacts with anger at the death on london.

Also, no. Cass is a pragmatist and her reaction is little more than "this is war, death happens. Get use to it." In many ways, she withholds any emotional response, making Joker's observation of her being "half-robot" all the more poignant. My headcanon here is the crew knows she can be a bloody hardass, almost Turian-esque at times, but she cares and will go out of her way for them. She just as difficulty showing it, theorising they fight better pissed. Naturally, her and Javik see eye to eye frequently.

You may insert whatever headcanon you fancy. Just do not project it on others and expect them to accept it.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 07 août 2013 - 07:04 .

[dorktainian]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Well, harby and the reaper's don't really care about sheps history, only that he/she see's oily shadows, reapers sounds, and whispers in the dark.....

You know, standard dream stuff. Nothing out of place or anything.

Just regular PTSD and war fatigue dream. Yep. Cause shep so has PTSD and war fatigue. Shep is just terrified and scared to death about reapers. In fact shep can't cope. Why Shepard can barely fight the reapers. In fact, I think shepard is a shell of the shepard from the previous games. Shepards PTSD and war fatigue paralyzes him/her.Sheps depressed, edgy and out a shape and can't relate to his/her friends anymore. Shep feels couped up and shep's anxious and scared of the reapers. Shepard can't lead. Can't fight reapers anymore.

Oh wait.... Damn, Shep's none of those things.

So then, what are the dreams really saying?

    

i think i might be able to suggest an answer to that question.


1st dream.  Shep has his weapon.  Chases the kid.  Kid burns.  The process begins.
2nd dream.  Shep has now lost his weapons.  Oily shadows in the dreams.  Reapers also there.  Kid Burns.  His mind is struggling to resist.
3rd dream.  Shep has no weapons.  Oily shadows become protective of boy.  Whispers are getting louder.  Boy runs to shepard and burns = shepard is becoming indoctrinated.  He can no longer protect himself.  His mental defense has been stripped away (bark been stripped from trees) His weapons are gone and he cannot protect the very thing he is trying to save........His sanity.

[Saberchic]

I still say nix the dreams and insert Earth combat sequences where you are either Random Soldier or Anderson. That would have made more sense than the kid dreams.

[Wolfva2]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Well, harby and the reaper's don't really care about sheps history, only that he/she see's oily shadows, reapers sounds, and whispers in the dark.....

You know, standard dream stuff. Nothing out of place or anything.

Just regular PTSD and war fatigue dream. Yep. Cause shep so has PTSD and war fatigue. Shep is just terrified and scared to death about reapers. In fact shep can't cope. Why Shepard can barely fight the reapers. In fact, I think shepard is a shell of the shepard from the previous games. Shepards PTSD and war fatigue paralyzes him/her.Sheps depressed, edgy and out a shape and can't relate to his/her friends anymore. Shep feels couped up and shep's anxious and scared of the reapers. Shepard can't lead. Can't fight reapers anymore.

Oh wait.... Damn, Shep's none of those things.

So then, what are the dreams really saying?

I'm assuming you played on a console and not a PC.  If you play on a PC(and have a decent sound system I suppose), you can clearly hear the whispers.  They're your dead crewmembers, using their various catch phrases.  As ME3 progresses and you lose more crew, you hear more of their voices.  Those are the ONLY voices you hear.  There is no indoctrination.

I find it odd you think it's out of the normal for a person to dream of his enemies.  In the middle of a war.  With those enemies pressing down on him.  That is, if Shepard is even hearing the reaper sounds and it's not just part of the ambient sound track, there to set the mood for the player.

I get the distinct feeling you are completely clueless about PTSD.  I suppose you're just some uber masculine image of He Man perfection who never feels fear, who stoicly steps over the bodies of children while chewing on a fat stogie and tossing out one liners to show how tough you  are.  <shrug>  Must suck for the rest of us to not be you.

[Wolfva2]

StreetMagic wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I can't remember any action movies like that actually (not to say there aren't any though. Not any good ones, I think). Usually the hero is stalled at the end because the villain has leverage in one way or another (vital info, a hostage, etc).

Lethal Weapon
Lethal Weapon 2.
about half the Schwartzenegger and almost all the Van Damme movies of the 90s-millenium
Die Hard



Of course, you DID say 'good ones'...so you get  a pass <LOL>.

Die Hard? Hans Gruber takes his wife hostage at the end. John McClane wasn't compelled to stop out of goody-goody heroics. His wife was in the way.

Also, if you're saying none of those are good, then I almost pity you (yes, even the early Van Damme films ).

I thought he beat Gruber, turned to walk away with his wife and Gruber grabbed a gun to shoot him when the fat cop shoots him first, sending him to fly out the window (what type of rounds was he using?!?  Howitzer?!?) to fly backwards to his doom.  Or am I mixing up my movies?  

Man...I'm glad you ALMOST pity me...because I'm not sure if I could take the pity of someone who thought ANY Van Damme movie was good....

[PMC65]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...


And why can't the enemy ever surrender?  Ok, sure.  In ME3 Cerb troops were basically half-husks.  But the other games?  Just once I'd've liked to hear, "OK men, the enemy is coming!  I want snipers on the balcony!  Let's get some mechs to the east and...and...what was that?   It's SHEPARD?   WE SURRENDER!   DON"T SHOOT!   I WANT TO LIIIIIVE!!!!"  Let's be honest here; mercs fight for money.  You don't get paid if you're dead.  WHY would they take on Shep?  Hell, the only ones who ever beat him were the collectors and they had to blow up the Normandy to do it...and all dying did was ****** him off. 

in me1 there was plenty of characters that surrender or tell you they dont want trouble.  a good early example is when you raid chora's den you can gain the option to talk two kids out of guarding fist if you get to them before they realise what's going on.  ME2 is written differently and filled itself with idiot action movie villains in every quest. 

In ME1, there's also the two ERCS guards in the Synthetic Insights lab that will leave if you have enough persuasion points as well.

[LiL Reapur]

^ What the other 3 said!