132 réponses à ce sujet

[Direwolf0294]

From the gameinformer thread:

Wants to make the action less frantic and more deliberate, returning to more tactics-oriented approach to encounters.

Big return to party-based tactics

Part of that is slowing down speed of attacks, more important is designing enemies that force you to examine the battlefield and choose actions carefully

Battles veer away from button mashing toward a structure where observation and reaction take precedence

Now personally, I hate this. Combat was something I did not enjoy at all in DA:O, and I try to avoid games that emphasize tactical and slow combat, such as RTS games. If DA2 did anything right, it was the combat, which still wasn't great, but was heaps better than what DA:O offered.

Now I understand that some people love that sort of combat, and that's fine, but a lot of people don't. DA:I is still under development, it's still a year away at the least, so in that time can you please, please add the option for fast paced, action oriented combat that's more akin to DA2? 

Modifié par Direwolf0294, 07 août 2013 - 05:32 .

[Nefla]

I hated the combat in both games though I found it bearable in DA:O as a mage. I would love actual twitch combat such as TES and not button mashing press-A-to-win without aiming,etc...that DA2 had. Boring and boring.

[Direwolf0294]

Nefla wrote...

I hated the combat in both games though I found it bearable in DA:O as a mage. I would love actual twitch combat such as TES and not button mashing press-A-to-win without aiming,etc...that DA2 had. Boring and boring.

Mages were OP in Origins, and the most twitchy class, so as you say, I found them bearable to play in DA:O.

I don't know what DA2 was like on console, but on PC it was more like playing an MMO. I get that they probably won't add the option to play the games like TES, Amalur or any of the more action oriented RPGs, but I'd like the option to at least go back to that sort of MMO combat.

If DA:I is anything like DA:O, twinking some things to make it play more MMOey shouldn't be too hard (which isn't to say it would be easy, just easier than doing a complete overhaul to make it play like an action game). Ideally they'd look at a game like Guild Wars 2, and how things like targeting, dodging and attacking work in the game and try and make it like that.

[Direwolf0294]

Filament wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Now I understand that some people love that sort of combat, and that's fine, but a lot of people don't. DA:I is still under development, it's still a year away at the least, so in that time can you please, please add the option for fast paced, action oriented combat that's more akin to DA2? 

Hate to be That Guy who makes That Hasty Generalization, but the numbers seem to indicate that you have your "some" and "a lot" backwards.

Some doesn't mean a minority, and a lot doesn't mean a majority. I'm not trying to start a fight over which is better, all I'm asking for is options.

[Zekka]

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

[n7stormrunner]

leslie2233 wrote...

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

becaue they would need to make two diffent games to that...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

[Direwolf0294]

Filament wrote...

'Just add more options' is all well and good, but how do you mean? Do you want them to develop two entirely separate combat systems to cater to different desires?

Only way I can see it being feasible is either as an evolution of the "Story, RPG, Action" scheme from ME3 (your wish being the "action mode"). Or a discrete "Arcade Mode" separate from the campaign.

I gave my suggestions in my original post, but if you want me to go over them again:

DA2's combat, and MMO combat in general, is just a more action oriented version of the combat seen in DA:O and other tactical games. It still has the click to target, it still has the hotkeys down the bottom that activate your skills, damage/blocking/dodging etc is still based on behind the scenes dice rolls, and you still have AoE and cone abilities you have to manually aim and can manually get out of the way of. The difference is, health/armour/damage and all that has been adjusted, animations are sped up, cooldowns are lowered and tactics don't matter as much, which makes the game feel more actiony and twitchy.

GW2 (and other MMOs, such as The Secret World) are a step further, where the amount of skills you have access to are reduced (which is great, sitting around watching hotbars isn't that fun), aiming your attacks takes a bit more preference, and dodging is made more active.

Now because those combat systems are just evolutions of the sort of system DA:O used, which is similar to what DA:I will presumably be using, adjusting the systems already in place to allow you to play like that, should you choose (so yes, I am asking for you to play the whole game through with either one system or the other, either by selecting which one you want to use at the start, or just toggling it through an option menu during the game), would be much easier than coming up with a combat system which works like those seen in Skyrim, Fable, Amalur, Deus Ex, Mass Effect etc, which is why I'm even bothering to make this thread, because it's feasible that given the time left until the game's released, it would be possible for them to include it in the game, whereas I don't think any other combat system would be as they'd be too far a departure from the original system.

Modifié par Direwolf0294, 07 août 2013 - 06:08 .

[Zekka]

n7stormrunner wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

becaue they would need to make two diffent games to that...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

The first Witcher kinda did it. It let you pick between 3rd person perspective and isometric mode. Granted, the isometric mode was as good as DA:O, but it got the job done.

Modifié par leslie2233, 07 août 2013 - 06:12 .

[Chala]

n7stormrunner wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

becaue they would need to make two diffent games to that...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

The lack of friendly fire made things a lot easier, you can spam all your magic skills with no risks at all

[Sylvius the Mad]

n7stormrunner wrote...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

Funny, I wasn't able to sneak up on anyone in DA2.  Or ambush them.  Or even attack first.  I couldn't pre-cast AoE spells.  I didn't have nearly as many crowd control tools.

[Sylvius the Mad]

leslie2233 wrote...

The first eitcher kinda did it. It let you pick between 3rd person perspective and isometric mode. Granted, the isometric mode was as good as DA:O, but it got the job done.

You still had to click to attack, though, regardless of the camera mode.

[Zekka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...

The first eitcher kinda did it. It let you pick between 3rd person perspective and isometric mode. Granted, the isometric mode was as good as DA:O, but it got the job done.

You still had to click to attack, though, regardless of the camera mode.

You are right. But it doesn't really bother me because the combat in The Witcher wasn't that good.

[n7stormrunner]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

Funny, I wasn't able to sneak up on anyone in DA2.  Or ambush them.  Or even attack first.  I couldn't pre-cast AoE spells.  I didn't have nearly as many crowd control tools.

wait you could ambush people da o? as I remember it it was the other way around 90% of the time.
and pre-cast what does that mean?

don't know about sneaking in da 2 don't do much with rogues .

true, you had less tools but half of them in da o were the same thing.

[leaguer of one]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

becaue they would need to make two diffent games to that...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

The lack of friendly fire made things a lot easier, you can spam all your magic skills with no risks at all

But you still had to use tactics. I go after the mage first with my rogues near the same way I do in DAO.

[Genshie]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

Funny, I wasn't able to sneak up on anyone in DA2.  Or ambush them.  Or even attack first.  I couldn't pre-cast AoE spells.  I didn't have nearly as many crowd control tools.

wait you could ambush people da o? as I remember it it was the other way around 90% of the time.
and pre-cast what does that mean?

don't know about sneaking in da 2 don't do much with rogues .

true, you had less tools but half of them in da o were the same thing.

Yes, you could actually ambush most encounters in DAO (especially as rogue) since most of the enemy targets were already placed and didn't just simply appear/fall from the sky/roofs. One thing I hated about DA2 was how they changed stealth for rogues. (they made it almost useless since they put a timer on it)
Pre-cast= As in set up traps/cast spells before actually encountering enemy targets.

I almost hate playing as mage in DA2 due to friendly fire and how much damage I end up doing to my own team mates. The only spells I ever worried about friendly fire in DAO was my fire/winter spells and even back then it didn't massacre my own team when I accidently hit them. (I hate how my own magic does more damage to my own companions then the enemy targets)

Modifié par Genshie, 07 août 2013 - 06:46 .

[Foolsfolly]

What do you mean by twitch combat? The magazine goes on to state that there are enemies that broadcast their next attack by winding up first. Which gives you a moment or two to get out of the way or press an attack of some kind.

There's also destructible environments, going out to say you could destroy support beams under an archer nest. Do that and the archers fall to the ground, either dead, hurt, or stunned and vulnerable to follow up attack? I cannot say.

The magazine also states that Mike Laidlaw said he wanted to ensure that those who want to go into it all action-y can; and those who want to pause, think, and work with your team as a unit could do that.

This might mean you'll come across mobs that will require tactics. I'm sorry, OP. But tactics are a good thing to require. Even if it's just "Have your Warrior use their grapple chain to remove the shield from that guy" before you have your rogue hit the guy with a poisoned arrow to the face.

But more likely than anything it'll be gated somehow through the difficulty settings. I imagine Casual, as always, will be easy enough that you'd have no problems. It's why that setting's there in the first place.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 07 août 2013 - 06:52 .

[n7stormrunner]

Genshie wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

though I'm still confused why people think da 2 was less tactical I did the same things in both games. I just did them faster in da 2

Funny, I wasn't able to sneak up on anyone in DA2.  Or ambush them.  Or even attack first.  I couldn't pre-cast AoE spells.  I didn't have nearly as many crowd control tools.

wait you could ambush people da o? as I remember it it was the other way around 90% of the time.
and pre-cast what does that mean?

don't know about sneaking in da 2 don't do much with rogues .

true, you had less tools but half of them in da o were the same thing.

Yes, you could actually ambush most encounters in DAO (especially as rogue) since most of the enemy targets were already placed and didn't just simply appear/fall from the sky/roofs. One thing I hated about DA2 was how they changed stealth for rogues. (they made it almost useless since they put a timer on it)
Pre-cast= As in set up traps/cast spells before actually encountering enemy targets.

ahh, that explains that... wait you can't do that in da 2... then what game have I been playing I mean traps don't exist but aoe spells work the same.  the messed up stealth is one of the reasons I don't do much with rogues in da 2. it is one of the few things I hope the changed back.

[Mr.House]

leslie2233 wrote...

Why not have both? Couldn't Bioware just let you switch between twitchy or tactcical gameplay in the options menu.

Making two diffrent combat systems for one game is not cheap or productive. It is a waste of resources and time. DAI is going back to DAO and improving it. Deal with it or find another game.

[Foolsfolly]

ahh, that explains that... wait you can't do that in da 2... then what game have I been playing I mean traps don't exist but aoe spells work the same. the messed up stealth is one of the reasons I don't do much with rogues in da 2. it is one of the few things I hope the changed back.

AoE is different. AoE spells in DA:O could be cast outside of combat. So... like that mission where you break into that mansion in Denerim? There's a locked door and your Survival skill shows enemies on the map in there. You could, outside of combat, set up Storm of the Ages combo right on top of that whole room.

It would kill everyone inside and they couldn't do anything.

AoE spells in DA2, however, could only be cast while inside combat. Which meant you couldn't cast something on unsuspecting enemies, only on enemies that are already engaged with you.

[n7stormrunner]

Foolsfolly wrote...

ahh, that explains that... wait you can't do that in da 2... then what game have I been playing I mean traps don't exist but aoe spells work the same. the messed up stealth is one of the reasons I don't do much with rogues in da 2. it is one of the few things I hope the changed back.

AoE is different. AoE spells in DA:O could be cast outside of combat. So... like that mission where you break into that mansion in Denerim? There's a locked door and your Survival skill shows enemies on the map in there. You could, outside of combat, set up Storm of the Ages combo right on top of that whole room.

It would kill everyone inside and they couldn't do anything.

AoE spells in DA2, however, could only be cast while inside combat. Which meant you couldn't cast something on unsuspecting enemies, only on enemies that are already engaged with you.

ok. I'm starting to think there is a reason why some can play da 2 tactically and some can't.

[Morogrem]

 given that the team really loved how fighting felt in 2 (which I'd have to agree with, it was fantastic) I imagine twitchplay will still be there, theyre just going to add more strategic elements to the fights themselves, which is more the problem that people had with 2's combat.