482 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Peace shouldn't have been possible because it rendered the ending narrative nonsense. But ME3 is not that dark of a game with a proper import. DAA and DA2 are both much grimmer.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

Peace shouldn't have been possible because it rendered the ending narrative nonsense. But ME3 is not that dark of a game with a proper import. DAA and DA2 are both much grimmer.

... Except for the dream sequences, the fall of Thessia, Earth, etc..

[dreamgazer]

PinkysPain wrote...

ME3 feels schizoid ... Gaider was right when he said you shouldn't really have been able to broker a peace between the Geth and the Quarians, that was a ME1/ME2 type solution which only served as a reminder of the previous games before grim derp took over.

Meh.  ME1 also featured an unavoidable choice between mass human deaths or allowing the council + Destiny Ascension (and its crew of 10k) to perish, with no way out of it.

[vallore]

KaiserShep wrote...

Vallore,

I agree about the destroy monologue. Shepard > Hackett, but I guess they wanted variety for each one, since Shepard's reaper-ized voice covers the Control ending.

Indeed, listening to Shepard’s own voice would add closure. But, as you said, variety is a possible reason, I agree. However I suspect that the main problem of using Shepard ‘s own voice during the epilogue is that it would make Shepard’s survival a fact, and I suspect that the writer(s) really, really wanted to avoid that.

AlanC9 wrote...

vallore wrote...

But the cost was poorly implemented; If the best you can hope is to see Shepard on top of a pile of rubble, alone and bleeding to death, then, in regard to Shepard’s survival, the issue of choosing Control or Synthesis vs. Destroy is merely a matter of explicit death vs. likely death.

I don't think Bio expected anyone to interpret the scene that way unless he actually wanted to interpret it that way. I'm surprised that people do that myself.

Which makes it poorly implemented, sure. Same as the pre-EC relay explosions. Bio shows that the explosions aren't novas when we see the Citadel Relay blow, but that didn't stop people from concluding that all the other relays novaed.

Personally, I doubt the breath scene was ever intended to have a clear “Shepard survives” message. It suspect it was always meant to be very ambiguous, but heavily tilted towards the Shepard’s death. Why?

Compare high Destroy with both Control and Synthesis; both of the later allow us to know explicitly what Shepard’s fate is. In High Destroy, even with the gasp, everything, even Shepard’s identity, is left open to interpretation. There is a reason for this:

The gasp scene was initially no more than a multiplayer easter egg. Without it, in the vanilla endings, Shepard would end up dead, regardless of picking read, blue or green.

I believe Shepard was originally “supposed to die “ in all endings ,and the easter egg was left ambiguous precisely to not oppose what the author(s) intended. “The gasp” was not to be understood as canon, rather an option to headcanon, if you felt like it.

If so, the ambiguity wasn’t changed in the EC simply because the writer’s goal didn’t really change. This is why Shepard remains in a desperate situation that can easily result in her death. And why even her identity isn’t absolutely certain. So that Shepard’s survival is never canon. The author(s) just conceded to increase the number of ambiguous endings , (regarding Shepard’s fate), By “promoting” the gasp scene from multiplayer bonus, o full feature of the Destroy ending.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

The real reason of course is that they were written by two people, and one was egotistic enough to not consult the rest of the team or share notes, so as to tie these things together in a coherent way.

pure speculation....nothing more.


Though it is a trend around these parts to state such things as if they're factual and are backed up by any solid evidence/proof (which they're not)

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

The real reason of course is that they were written by two people, and one was egotistic enough to not consult the rest of the team or share notes, so as to tie these things together in a coherent way.

pure speculation....nothing more.


Though it is a trend around these parts to state such things as if they're factual and are backed up by any solid evidence/proof (which they're not)

 There was a leak on the plotline for ME3, this is fact. They changed the plot because of this and its very possible what the person your replying to is correct based upon who actualy leaked said plot.

[Mcfly616]

shingara wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

The real reason of course is that they were written by two people, and one was egotistic enough to not consult the rest of the team or share notes, so as to tie these things together in a coherent way.

pure speculation....nothing more.


Though it is a trend around these parts to state such things as if they're factual and are backed up by any solid evidence/proof (which they're not)

 There was a leak on the plotline for ME3, this is fact. They changed the plot because of this and its very possible what the person your replying to is correct based upon who actualy leaked said plot.

I'm aware of the leak in Fall 2011. The leaked ending is basically the same exact thing as the original ending upon release. Nor does a leak prove that a single individual wrote the ending all by themselves. All youre doing is adding to speculation.

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

shingara wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

The real reason of course is that they were written by two people, and one was egotistic enough to not consult the rest of the team or share notes, so as to tie these things together in a coherent way.

pure speculation....nothing more.


Though it is a trend around these parts to state such things as if they're factual and are backed up by any solid evidence/proof (which they're not)

 There was a leak on the plotline for ME3, this is fact. They changed the plot because of this and its very possible what the person your replying to is correct based upon who actualy leaked said plot.

I'm aware of the leak in Fall 2011. The leaked ending is basically the same exact thing as the original ending upon release. Nor does a leak prove that a single individual wrote the ending all by themselves. All youre doing is adding to speculation.

 You misinterprit what i am saying, No one is assuming one person wrote everything. It doesnt matter how many writers are on a game there is no matter which way you twizzle it 1 main person who decides said story elements and what goes where or why. Its also public knowledge that they did change the game because of the leaks, there is no assumption in that nor speculation.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...
I don't need evidence.

If you're stating things as if they're facts.....yes, you do.

All of the evidence is implicit, right there in how the dialogue and quests are written. Why would the most unlikely alliance in the galaxy (Geth/Quarians) not even be even a minor footnote in the dialogue with the Catalyst? It turns out to be as important as Captain Bailey's boot size (which is to say, not important at all). This major event that just happened on Rannoch about organics and synthetics is suddenly not important to the one character who has everything invested in the subject of organics and synthetics. That's not the kind of mistake you intentionally ignore. It shows a complete lack of communication.

The Catalyst tells you straight up: the peace won't last. What more do you want it to say about the matter?

[shingara]

well isnt harbringer, sorry catalyst captain obvious. peace never lasts.

[HellbirdIV]

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

Peace shouldn't have been possible because it rendered the ending narrative nonsense. But ME3 is not that dark of a game with a proper import. DAA and DA2 are both much grimmer.

... Except for the dream sequences, the fall of Thessia, Earth, etc..

The dream sequences were dark?

I mean yeah it was hard to see but that's just ****ty graphic design, but they were hardly thematically dark. They were ridiculous.

[Mcfly616]

shingara wrote...

 You misinterprit what i am saying, No one is assuming one person wrote everything. It doesnt matter how many writers are on a game there is no matter which way you twizzle it 1 main person who decides said story elements and what goes where or why. Its also public knowledge that they did change the game because of the leaks, there is no assumption in that nor speculation.

have you even seen it? go ahead. Go take a look at what the leaked scripts ending was. There's basically no difference.

Hell, its also "public knowledge" that Javik was originally the Catalyst too, right? But nope, its not even true. He was never ever the Catalyst. Yet, around these parts you'll see such lies are stated as if they're facts.

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

shingara wrote...

 You misinterprit what i am saying, No one is assuming one person wrote everything. It doesnt matter how many writers are on a game there is no matter which way you twizzle it 1 main person who decides said story elements and what goes where or why. Its also public knowledge that they did change the game because of the leaks, there is no assumption in that nor speculation.

have you even seen it? go ahead. Go take a look at what the leaked scripts ending was. There's basically no difference.

Hell, its also "public knowledge" that Javik was originally the Catalyst too, right? But nope, its not even true. He was never ever the Catalyst. Yet, around these parts you'll see such lies are stated as if they're facts.

 And pixies and rainbows, and cats in black ribbons. So you see myth and facts and twist it to believe nothing. Thats cool. Each to there own i suppose.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst tells you straight up: the peace won't last. What more do you want it to say about the matter?

The "peace won't last" is referring specifically to a post Destroy scenario, where emerging AI will one day come to bite everyone in the ass. It has nothing to do with the current cycle. It's a scenario where even the Geth are long gone already.

The difference with a Geth/Quarian alliance is it's a living testament of something totally contrary to it's current beliefs (yes, I say beliefs. The singularity is like a religion, complete with self styled "prophets"). You wouldn't even get that Destroy dialogue above if you were allowed to bring this up first. It's an actual challenge to it's viewpoints, sitting there right outside the ****ing window. It deserves it's own answer. Not some answer from an unrelated scenario.

its established quite well, that as long as there are organics and synthetics the peace won't last. Conflict will always arise between organics and synthetics

[shingara]

StreetMagic wrote...

Oh, and just to mention, whether the Catalyst has a viable challenge and dispells all hope once again, is irrelevant. It's not that I necessarily want a pleasing answer to it. My point is that it doesn't have any answer at all. Which brings me back to my main point: There was a lack of communication on what needed to be addressed at the end.

 I would say this is nail > hammer > head, spot on.

Modifié par shingara, 10 août 2013 - 08:30 .

[Mcfly616]

shingara wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

shingara wrote...

 You misinterprit what i am saying, No one is assuming one person wrote everything. It doesnt matter how many writers are on a game there is no matter which way you twizzle it 1 main person who decides said story elements and what goes where or why. Its also public knowledge that they did change the game because of the leaks, there is no assumption in that nor speculation.

have you even seen it? go ahead. Go take a look at what the leaked scripts ending was. There's basically no difference.

Hell, its also "public knowledge" that Javik was originally the Catalyst too, right? But nope, its not even true. He was never ever the Catalyst. Yet, around these parts you'll see such lies are stated as if they're facts.

 And pixies and rainbows, and cats in black ribbons. So you see myth and facts and twist it to believe nothing. Thats cool. Each to there own i suppose.

I actually did the exact opposite. I separated what's myth and what's fact. Either way, I don't entertain those who speak in nonsensical riddles. You should put down what you're smoking....or pass it....or sell it. Because once again, you're not making any sense at all, mate...

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

shingara wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

shingara wrote...

 You misinterprit what i am saying, No one is assuming one person wrote everything. It doesnt matter how many writers are on a game there is no matter which way you twizzle it 1 main person who decides said story elements and what goes where or why. Its also public knowledge that they did change the game because of the leaks, there is no assumption in that nor speculation.

have you even seen it? go ahead. Go take a look at what the leaked scripts ending was. There's basically no difference.

Hell, its also "public knowledge" that Javik was originally the Catalyst too, right? But nope, its not even true. He was never ever the Catalyst. Yet, around these parts you'll see such lies are stated as if they're facts.

 And pixies and rainbows, and cats in black ribbons. So you see myth and facts and twist it to believe nothing. Thats cool. Each to there own i suppose.

I actually did the exact opposite. I separated what's myth and what's fact. Either way, I don't entertain those who speak in nonsensical riddles. You should put down what you're smoking....or pass it....or sell it. Because once again, you're not making any sense at all, mate...

 For what its worth its not me who looks like there smoking something. Its a case especialy how you state it you seperate what is myth and what is fact based upon what you believe. Does say alot about you that you think what i wrote is a riddle is infact from mary poppins

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

its established quite well, that as long as there are organics and synthetics the peace won't last. Conflict will always arise between organics and synthetics

It never specifically said that either. It said the "created will always rebel against the creators".

Which is something else that didn't happen with the Geth. The Quarians attack first, Geth kicked their asses, but then let them go, and became isolationists. This isn't the "created will always rebel against their creators". This is synthetics simply defending themselves, and then trying to make a life for themselves alone.

This is another sign that the two teams weren't communicating. They couldn't even line up the motivations on why these conflicts happen. Because in this cycle, it's for completely other reasons than what the Catalyst preaches.

I think you're confusing it's vagueness and reluctance to go into much detail, for being "incorrect". Which isn't one in the same. Just because A attacked B, doesn't negate the fact that the inevitable conflict is now taking place as it always has. Organics and Synthetics do not live in harmony together. Bottom line.