482 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

chemiclord wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

No. The prediction is that synthetics will rise up, rebel and wipe out their creators. Peace on Rannoch proves that they can learn to coexist. Do you even wonder why there is absolutely no way to even mention this to the catalyst? The problem is that the Catalyst's word is being taken as gospel with absolutely nothing to back it up, whereas the player gets to make peace. This is a clear case of the writers telling without showing to make a claim, then showing that the exact opposite of that claim is possible. 

The problem with this argument is that you are NOT arguing mutually exclusive points.

Picture a light switch, it is currently flipped to "ON."  You say, "The light switch is ON."  Another person says, "The light switch will eventually be OFF."  They are both logically correct, and are not in conflict.  The chance that the light switch will always be on is so low that it is a perfectly acceptable assumption to say that at some point it will be off.

It's very similar here.  The Catalyst never claims (not even in the original version) that peaceful existance between synthetic and organic life is impossible.  It says that war is inevitable, and that the consequences of that war are too high to let play out, based on unspecified occurences in the past.

Now where the Catalyst's argument would apparently stumble is that it obviously does NOT have proof of its doomsday scenario... because proof of that scenario would mean there would be no Shepard to pose that proof to.  However, it is NOT outside the realm of the reasonable for the Leviathans or the Catalyst to INFER that doomsday scenario based on what they had experienced.  After all, waiting for that proof to happen before taking action would kinda defeat the point of taking action.

hmm this just reminded me how much Mass Effect/The Reapers/inevitable conflict resemble the Revelation Space Trilogy by Alastair Reynolds.

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

1. Obviously you're a little bit on the sensitive side if you find me to be a "bully" when all I did was laugh at the fact you're quoting children's movies.

2. I made my point before he refined it. The point just had to keep getting reiterated because you were confused.

3. Nice, you just listed a number of instances that contribute to the Catalysts assertations....not yours. Good one. As for EDI. She's a single robot. As I said, get a bigger sample size.....and try to make sure it proves your point and not the Catalysts.

 Well lets see, for 1 its not me stating your a bully, its you admitting you used bully tactics be it to belittle or entise a fight also seen within the comment you have put within 1 to illicit such a response again.

For 2 he refined it a few posts later, you stated to me a page later thus reafirming my previous point to which you are refering to.

As for 3, you seem tobe confused, and in a very big fashion, the catalyst came to its conclusions a millenia or more ago before said samples i provided ever came into existance for the catalyst to take referance from to come to the conclusion it did. As for EDI it doesnt matter if she is a single entity, because you also are under the illusion that EVA is all of EDI, where EVA is an extention of EDI. The Protheans destroyed there synthetics to stop them surpasing them, thus the organics destroying the synthetics, the geth were attacked by the quarians thus organics again destroying the synthetics. The Zha'til, an organic/synthetic race in symbiosis.

 So the opposite is correct to what the cataylst states, the creater has always tried to attack the created in some situations.

[Mcfly616]

KaiserShep wrote...

Pray tell, how big would this sample size have to be?

enough to balance out Leviathans/Catalysts sample size.....which is a billion (plus) years of occurences or something like that. Considering the Shepard Trilogy takes place over the course of 3 years, I don't see how its possible.


Basically it comes down to the fact that you think Quarians/Geth peace disproves the inevitable conflict between organics and synthetics.....I'm simply stating it doesn't disprove it in any way whatsoever. The Catalyst never said Peace was in no way possible, it simply states that war/conflict is inevitable.


You can stop it before it wipes everything out, or you can just let it happen.....

[Vinchisters]

I'm truly sorry for anyone whose lives have been ruined by a video game ending. It's truly sad to see a soul succumb to rage and violence all because they didn't like 15 minutes of a great trilogy. You deserve special help from others and you have my pity.

[Mcfly616]

shingara wrote...

 Well lets see, for 1 its not me stating your a bully, its you admitting you used bully tactics be it to belittle or entise a fight also seen within the comment you have put within 1 to illicit such a response again.

For 2 he refined it a few posts later, you stated to me a page later thus reafirming my previous point to which you are refering to.

As for 3, you seem tobe confused, and in a very big fashion, the catalyst came to its conclusions a millenia or more ago before said samples i provided ever came into existance for the catalyst to take referance from to come to the conclusion it did. As for EDI it doesnt matter if she is a single entity, because you also are under the illusion that EVA is all of EDI, where EVA is an extention of EDI. The Protheans destroyed there synthetics to stop them surpasing them, thus the organics destroying the synthetics, the geth were attacked by the quarians thus organics again destroying the synthetics. The Zha'til, an organic/synthetic race in symbiosis.

 So the opposite is correct to what the cataylst states, the creater has always tried to attack the created in some situations.

1. I did no such thing. I admitted nothing of the sort. Stop twisting words. I found something funny. I laughed. If you consider it a "bully tactic"......oh well. Your problem not mine.

2. Duuuude. I already explained this to you for real. I was not reposting it for him. I'm aware that he grasped what I was saying. You on the other hand, still needed it to be explained word for word because you still didn't understand it a whole page later.

3. I'm "also under the illusion...."?! Nobody said anything about EVA. So, I'm not under any illusions about her. Once again I must point out that you are twisting things and trying to state assumptions as facts. Just stop. I'm not even sure how you came to such a conclusion.

Conflict is inevitable. It is because organics and synthetics exist. I could care less how it starts. Whether its Synthetics outright rebelling or if they simply rebel because they don't want their organic masters to deactivate them. Either way it happens.

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

 1. I did no such thing. I admitted nothing of the sort. Stop twisting words. I found something funny. I laughed. If you consider it a "bully tactic"......oh well. Your problem not mine.

2. Duuuude. I already explained this to you for real. I was not reposting it for him. I'm aware that he grasped what I was saying. You on the other hand, still needed it to be explained word for word because you still didn't understand it a whole page later.

3. I'm "also under the illusion...."?! Nobody said anything about EVA. So, I'm not under any illusions about her. Once again I must point out that you are twisting things and trying to state assumptions as facts. Just stop. I'm not even sure how you came to such a conclusion.

Conflict is inevitable. It is because organics and synthetics exist. I could care less how it starts. Whether its Synthetics outright rebelling or if they simply rebel because they don't want their organic masters to deactivate them. Either way it happens.

 1, your words not mine, and i love it when people say ow but your twisting my words or your putting words in my mouth which is again shown in 3. And again with the trying to get a response, does it really work for you in the real world. Just checking cos it must work somewhere.

2, you stated what Street had said previously to me to make a point even though they had refined it of which you knew about thus showing you to not use relevant information but the information that suits you. Also shown by the way you reply in how you seem to be getting a little rilled up there, maybe 10 deep breaths would help you, you should try it. And juust a note, he didnt refine his answer to understand you but so you understood him.

3, when you state 'Robot' as EDI that is infact the robotic unit EVA which EDI uses as an extentions of her programs whilst remaining upon the Normandy. With the rest of 3 im not even sure what your argument is anymore, previously it was because synthetics will always attack organics and cos the catalyst says its so to there will always be conflict even though there is absolutly zero proof of this as you have not shown a sample size of any scale to prove this as an outright fact and which for the sample sizes we have shows that its organics that initiated it also going against what the catalyst states.

 I dunno, i think maybe you should go sit down and try and work out exactly what your argument is because we can no longer tell. That is of course if you could do it in an adult manner and minus the insults and attempts to provoke a reaction.

Modifié par shingara, 10 août 2013 - 10:29 .

[Mcfly616]

My exact words were "wowww Hahahahahahaha"

You were the one that called it bullying. So it was in fact your words. Good one....

Rilled up? Nah, I'm just still laughing about your lack of comprehension. Was it not you 2 pages ago who was going on and on about how I was using an example of myth to dismiss facts.....when in reality I was using an example of a myth stated as a fact in order to describe another myth stated as a fact by StreetMagic, which it took you a whole page and 10 more posts to comprehend, which is exactly what you're confused about the context of even right now. It's quite comical, really. Have fun in La La Land bro hahaha

Modifié par Mcfly616, 10 août 2013 - 10:34 .

[shingara]

Mcfly616 wrote...

 really. Have fun in La La Land bro hahaha

See what i mean, you just cant help yourself can you, the insults and attempts to provoke a reaction. Maybe 10 seconds isnt enough, try 20. How old are you btw, just gotta check.


 Ow and BTW im pretty sure all of us here within BSN understand the concept of a lead writer and there team which i pointed out on page 13 11 posts down and street stated one post above. And we proved you wrong on what the catalyst said and how you described the organic synthetic situation, and you attitude from your posts speaks everything.

Modifié par shingara, 10 août 2013 - 11:32 .

[3DandBeyond]

Vinchisters wrote...

I'm truly sorry for anyone whose lives have been ruined by a video game ending. It's truly sad to see a soul succumb to rage and violence all because they didn't like 15 minutes of a great trilogy. You deserve special help from others and you have my pity.

It's this kind of juvenile attempt to claim something that is not true that is deserving of pity.  Your need to belittle others because of all this indicates more about you than it does about them and it's not flattering.

My life was not ruined by a video game ending, but something I truly liked was.  ME was a great venture for the devs. a unique experience in the 35 plus years of gaming for me, and a franchise with memorable characters created to do what even some of the best authors could only dream of.  They made us care about them.  That didn't mean we crossed the boundary from reality into fantasy and believed them alive.  It meant they were virtualy alive in that we could relate to them, were given enough stuff to identify with them, and then as all great stories are meant to do (since it's almost always more about the characters than the story), we imparted our real emotions upon them.  Emotions in stories are to be used for that.

What rage and violence?  What tends to be the overwhelming feeling is disappointment and a certain lack of respect for those that created a set known milieu for ME and then abandoned that in the last minutes of the thing.  They created this whole debacle and likely did so for some desire to be remembered.  It blew up in their faces and yet no matter what they're happy about it.  The talking heads out their in what passes for journalism for gaming, followed them and it's the fans that lose here.  Fans argue and have always acted as if no one has the right to label hype as promises or to admonish devs for failures in content, because "that's just the way it's always been done."  Based upon that idea, games need never change, and devs are free to do whatever they want to and we just have to accept it without complaint.

The next time some dev creates a game and it's not what they said it would be and you don't like it-too bad, live with it.  The next time they create something that's just plain bad-too bad, that's just the way it's always been done.  I feel sorry for all of us if the prevailing way to deal with all of this is to just try and belittle people for your own entertainment.  I know why I came back here and after some months posted some things.  I wonder though why you are.

[3DandBeyond]

chemiclord wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

No. The prediction is that synthetics will rise up, rebel and wipe out their creators. Peace on Rannoch proves that they can learn to coexist. Do you even wonder why there is absolutely no way to even mention this to the catalyst? The problem is that the Catalyst's word is being taken as gospel with absolutely nothing to back it up, whereas the player gets to make peace. This is a clear case of the writers telling without showing to make a claim, then showing that the exact opposite of that claim is possible. 

The problem with this argument is that you are NOT arguing mutually exclusive points.

Picture a light switch, it is currently flipped to "ON."  You say, "The light switch is ON."  Another person says, "The light switch will eventually be OFF."  They are both logically correct, and are not in conflict.  The chance that the light switch will always be on is so low that it is a perfectly acceptable assumption to say that at some point it will be off.

It's very similar here.  The Catalyst never claims (not even in the original version) that peaceful existance between synthetic and organic life is impossible.  It says that war is inevitable, and that the consequences of that war are too high to let play out, based on unspecified occurences in the past.

Now where the Catalyst's argument would apparently stumble is that it obviously does NOT have proof of its doomsday scenario... because proof of that scenario would mean there would be no Shepard to pose that proof to.  However, it is NOT outside the realm of the reasonable for the Leviathans or the Catalyst to INFER that doomsday scenario based on what they had experienced.  After all, waiting for that proof to happen before taking action would kinda defeat the point of taking action.

The problem with that whole thing is that what he believes is not that conflict is inevitable (solely) but that all organics will be exterminated by synthetics inevitably.  He has nothing to base this opinion on.  Even the conflict the Leviathans see is specific and targeted toward their enthralled races.  Presumably what makes them act is that the amount of "loyal" subjects they have to control is dwindling.  That whole tribute and dead races thing.  The concern is less about all organics and more about organics that can be enthralled and pay homage to squid buddies.  That makes the rest of this ludicrous.

And in true stupid star kid fashion the ultimate solution to making sure synthetics don't destroy all organics is to get rid of all organics through synthesis.  Oh, of course that's the perfect solution.  If I can't find a way for cats and dogs to get along, then I'll create robo-cats and robo-dogs and I don't care if robo-dogs eat all the robo-cats.  As long as dogs don't eat cats. 

Or in other words, the kid starts with the notion that advanced organics will create synthetics.  Soooo, let's advance the organics with our tech so they will be sure to create synthetics.

Then, those synthetics he made it possible for them to create might rebel and destroy all organics.  Sooo, he kept trying to augment current synthetics with reaper tech so they were better able to destroy organics.

Then, he has to protect organics from being killed by those nasty synthetics.  Soooo, he kills them.

Then, he has a solution that is no longer a solution because it does not work anymore-the reapers don't work.  Soooo, he keeps using them to kill organics to keep synthetics from killing all organics.

Then, he indoctrinates TIM into thinking he can control the reapers but tells Shepard TIM couldn't because he was under their control, but now Shepard can (and the implication is because Shepard isn't under their control).  Ok right.  TIM was right but he was wrong.  He thought he could control them because he was told he could but can't because he's indoctrinated, but Shepard is told s/he can and should believe that because s/he's not indoctrinated.  Oh for the love of God.

Then, blah blah blah destroy, damge tech, target synthetics, you're part synthetic, this makes no sense but you know you wanna do it so wait...look over here at the green thing.

Then, synthesis cool right.  Some stuff from somewhere uses Shepard to spread his/her essence amongst the stars and this stuff just finds its way into the pores of all organic life even tulips and guppies, instantly.  And voila!  All synthetics have full understanding of organics-but organics that the kid wanted to keep alive (supposedly), no longer exist.  They are hybrids with a new...DNA.

But refuse, idiot and we'll smash your face in right away.

Yeah, ok and I'm not supposed to have ever wanted a better ending.

[Shaigunjoe]

dreamgazer wrote...

"I find it funny that fans end up hearing a couple things they like about it and in their minds they add in all the details they specifically want," he explained. "It's like vapourware - vapourware is always perfect, anytime someone talks about the new greatest game. It's perfect until it comes out. I'm a little weary about going into too much detail because, whatever we came up with, it probably wouldn't be what people want it to be."

http://www.eurogamer...-trilogy-ending

Hey now, that is interesting.  I could have gotten behind the reapers actually reaping for something other than preserving, though it definitly sounded like they struggled on why they would be reaping, the whole reapers need biotics but can't use them was pretty weak, as well as the dark energy causes an entropic increase that they didn't like (if that's the case why not just kill organics out right?).  While reaper's "preserving" organics is a much better thematic fit, its always fun to look at some different possible motives.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 10 août 2013 - 11:34 .

[shingara]

Does make you wonder what might have been if drew hant been moved over to swtor. I mean the story within swtor that drew worked on really shows you how he is a masterclass of what can be done with the right skills and team of writers.

I would have loved to have seen how he expanded upon the dark energy problem and even in interviews you get the sense that he knew how to weave it into 2 but had never settled on how it turns out in 3, with a bit more spitballing he could have come out with something truly amazing.

 I mean just think about if the reason the reapers were so is from a very base thing, envy, jealousy. That as the reapers became self aware of the universe around them , im talking about the initial AI of course that it saw organics able todo something it couldnt do, and has since tried to become organic itself, it did this via the reaper constructs but it still wasnt enough, it then thought well those dasterdly humans can do it and they arnt meant tobe able to, lets construct a reaper from just them as them, but we squished it and now the reapers are peeved. And the dark energy build up was infact the reapers trying to manipulate matter to become biotic.

Modifié par shingara, 10 août 2013 - 11:53 .

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

Does make you wonder what might have been if drew hant been moved over to swtor. I mean the story within swtor that drew worked on really shows you how he is a masterclass of what can be done with the right skills and team of writers.

I would have loved to have seen how he expanded upon the dark energy problem and even in interviews you get the sense that he knew how to weave it into 2 but had never settled on how it turns out in 3, with a bit more spitballing he could have come out with something truly amazing.

 I mean just think about if the reason the reapers were so is from a
very base thing, envy, jealousy. That as the reapers became self aware
of the universe around them , im talking about the initial AI of course
that it saw organics able todo something it couldnt do, and has since
tried to become organic itself, it did this via the reaper constructs
but it still wasnt enough, it then thought well those dasterdly humans
can do it and they arnt meant tobe able to, lets construct a reaper from
just them as them, but we squished it and now the reapers are peeved.
And the dark energy build up was infact the reapers trying to manipulate
matter to become biotic.

Personally, I don't give Karpyshyn that much credit.  I feel like he is a perfectly good writer.  (Though I think he has found some hate with some of his novels, at least according to his blog).  He writes fun stories, they are quick reads and are good beach time reading.  Compatent action scenes and simple dialogue.  I think the mass effect novels suffered more so from his departure than the games did.  Mac has always been a different type of writer, and I really blame Casey Hudson more than anyone for the way things went down.

Edit, saw your update! 

The problem I have with this is that Asari are more biotically adept than humans naturally (all Asari all biotic afterall) so why not go after them?  They new about the asari in the precious cycle, you think that would have been some interest.  Also, biotics can really just create and manipulate mass effect fields, something that the reapers are obviously easily able to do, so not sure why they would go after them. 

Really, the biggest problem is that they set out for ME to be a triliogy, but they didn't have a plan for it.  LOTR, Star Wars, those were all written as one big book/script and broken into smaller chunks.  All of the writers,directors, and producers are really to blame for not adequetly planning the story out before hand.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 11 août 2013 - 12:01 .

[shingara]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

Does make you wonder what might have been if drew hant been moved over to swtor. I mean the story within swtor that drew worked on really shows you how he is a masterclass of what can be done with the right skills and team of writers.

I would have loved to have seen how he expanded upon the dark energy problem and even in interviews you get the sense that he knew how to weave it into 2 but had never settled on how it turns out in 3, with a bit more spitballing he could have come out with something truly amazing.

Personally, I don't give Karpyshyn that much credit.  I feel like he is a perfectly good writer.  (Though I think he has found some hate with some of his novels, at least according to his blog).  He writes fun stories, they are quick reads and are good beach time reading.  Compatent action scenes and simple dialogue.  I think the mass effect novels suffered more so from his departure than the games did.  Mac has always been a different type of writer, and I really blame Casey Hudson more than anyone for the way things went down.

 My point is that drew is an incredible writer but one of his better talents is he is able to get better writing and direct his writers around him when he is lead writier. I feel and this is just my opinion that drew isnt full of himself and will take feedback whilst not dominating those around him. This shows well in the mass effect games he did. The storys are crisp and tight, lore is kept in lines all time, not just with the previous game and wiki but also in acknowledgement of the various novels and books as a collective not just pick and chosing which fit your idea.

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Edit, saw your update! 

The
problem I have with this is that Asari are more biotically adept than
humans naturally (all Asari all biotic afterall) so why not go after
them?  They new about the asari in the precious cycle, you think that
would have been some interest.  Also, biotics can really just create and
manipulate mass effect fields, something that the reapers are obviously
easily able to do, so not sure why they would go after them. 


Really, the biggest problem is that they set out for ME to be a
triliogy, but they didn't have a plan for it.  LOTR, Star Wars, those
were all written as one big book/script and broken into smaller chunks. 
All of the writers,directors, and producers are really to blame for not
adequetly planning the story out before hand.

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Modifié par shingara, 11 août 2013 - 12:06 .

[CynicalShep]

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

Does make you wonder what might have been if drew hant been moved over to swtor. I mean the story within swtor that drew worked on really shows you how he is a masterclass of what can be done with the right skills and team of writers.

I would have loved to have seen how he expanded upon the dark energy problem and even in interviews you get the sense that he knew how to weave it into 2 but had never settled on how it turns out in 3, with a bit more spitballing he could have come out with something truly amazing.

Personally, I don't give Karpyshyn that much credit.  I feel like he is a perfectly good writer.  (Though I think he has found some hate with some of his novels, at least according to his blog).  He writes fun stories, they are quick reads and are good beach time reading.  Compatent action scenes and simple dialogue.  I think the mass effect novels suffered more so from his departure than the games did.  Mac has always been a different type of writer, and I really blame Casey Hudson more than anyone for the way things went down.

 My point is that drew is an incredible writer but one of his better talents is he is able to get better writing and direct his writers around him when he is lead writier. I feel and this is just my opinion that drew isnt full of himself and will take feedback whilst not dominating those around him. This shows well in the mass effect games he did. The storys are crisp and tight, lore is kept in lines all time, not just with the previous game and wiki but also in acknowledgement of the various novels and books as a collective not just pick and chosing which fit your idea.

I still cringe when I remember the Revan novel

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

Does make you wonder what might have been if drew hant been moved over to swtor. I mean the story within swtor that drew worked on really shows you how he is a masterclass of what can be done with the right skills and team of writers.

I would have loved to have seen how he expanded upon the dark energy problem and even in interviews you get the sense that he knew how to weave it into 2 but had never settled on how it turns out in 3, with a bit more spitballing he could have come out with something truly amazing.

Personally, I don't give Karpyshyn that much credit.  I feel like he is a perfectly good writer.  (Though I think he has found some hate with some of his novels, at least according to his blog).  He writes fun stories, they are quick reads and are good beach time reading.  Compatent action scenes and simple dialogue.  I think the mass effect novels suffered more so from his departure than the games did.  Mac has always been a different type of writer, and I really blame Casey Hudson more than anyone for the way things went down.

 My point is that drew is an incredible writer but one of his better talents is he is able to get better writing and direct his writers around him when he is lead writier. I feel and this is just my opinion that drew isnt full of himself and will take feedback whilst not dominating those around him. This shows well in the mass effect games he did. The storys are crisp and tight, lore is kept in lines all time, not just with the previous game and wiki but also in acknowledgement of the various novels and books as a collective not just pick and chosing which fit your idea.

Like I said, I wouldn't give DK that much credit, even in the books he wrote, there were several errors, you can look up the documents (though none of that comes close to the landslide that the last book was).  I guess I don't like Drew, becaus I felt the main plot lines in both 1 and 2 were pretty poor, and I blame him and hudson for it (mainly because I feel they are similiar to his novels), while other writers took up the side quests and other characters and were much better.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 11 août 2013 - 12:07 .

[shingara]

CynicalShep wrote...

I still cringe when I remember the Revan novel

 Ye but thats just taste really at the end of the day, im a major fan of gemmel and Larsson, but some of my friends think they are both some of the worst or not so great authors on the planet.

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Not quite right, at least not according the the wiki, they need to be exposed to Eezo in utero, that is not 'evolution'.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 11 août 2013 - 12:09 .

[shingara]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Not quite right, at least not according the the wiki, they need to be exposed to Eezo in utero, that is not 'evolution'.

 well ye ezoo is an influence but that is an influence that the reapers via a human reaper construct could manipulate a situation to gain biotics.

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Not quite right, at least not according the the wiki, they need to be exposed to Eezo in utero, that is not 'evolution'.

 well ye ezoo is an influence but that is an influence that the reapers via a human reaper construct could manipulate a situation to gain biotics.

Well sure, but it works on other species as well, and not just humans, and not just that cycle either.

[CynicalShep]

shingara wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I still cringe when I remember the Revan novel

 Ye but thats just taste really at the end of the day, im a major fan of gemmel and Larsson, but some of my friends think they are both some of the worst or not so great authors on the planet.

That's the thing with Drew, though. He'll write great characters and a good story and then suddenly blow it so bad you can't believe it's happening. That is especially true about the endings of his stories.

[shingara]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Not quite right, at least not according the the wiki, they need to be exposed to Eezo in utero, that is not 'evolution'.

 well ye ezoo is an influence but that is an influence that the reapers via a human reaper construct could manipulate a situation to gain biotics.

Well sure, but it works on other species as well, and not just humans, and not just that cycle either.

 ye and that could explain why some popualtions are simply blown up and others harvested even though it takes centurys in some cases and why ezoo is so integeral to the tech based upon the mass relays to ensure races exposure to it. And hey im just spitballing the idea. Imagine if there were 10 of us sat around a table doing this who had actual influence on it.

 For me its this element that was missing in 3.

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

shingara wrote...

 ye i thought of the asari, but one thing i remember about the difference in how the asari biotics work compared to humans is that asari had there biotics created through bioengineering of the protheans, humans it happened through evolution.

Not quite right, at least not according the the wiki, they need to be exposed to Eezo in utero, that is not 'evolution'.

 well ye ezoo is an influence but that is an influence that the reapers via a human reaper construct could manipulate a situation to gain biotics.

Well sure, but it works on other species as well, and not just humans, and not just that cycle either.

 ye and that could explain why some popualtions are simply blown up and others harvested even though it takes centurys in some cases and why ezoo is so integeral to the tech based upon the mass relays to ensure races exposure to it. And hey im just spitballing the idea. Imagine if there were 10 of us sat around a table doing this who had actual influence on it.

 For me its this element that was missing in 3.

I know, thats what this is, spitballing!

I'm not aware that the reapers simply blow up some sentinent species and harvested others, but really the biggest issue is eezo itself.

Eezo is integral to mass relays because mass relays need them to work, that isn't a mystery.  In fact, eezo does exactly what biotics do, create and manipulate mass effect fields.  So why do the reapers need them at all?  You don't need a biotic to run the spaceships.

[shingara]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I know, thats what this is, spitballing!

I'm not aware that the reapers simply blow up some sentinent species and harvested others, but really the biggest issue is eezo itself.

Eezo is integral to mass relays because mass relays need them to work, that isn't a mystery.  In fact, eezo does exactly what biotics do, create and manipulate mass effect fields.  So why do the reapers need them at all?  You don't need a biotic to run the spaceships.

 Well a mass effect field and controlling biotics at the levels actual people do is another thing. A drivecore isnt able to attack or defend itself from attack, it simply creates a field just the same way an elctromagnet does. And again its like i said, if an AI becomes self aware, is told it can do everything and then sees something it cannot do, does the Ai then have emotions because of this. If it does then does that create an instance where it is jealous and passes off the conflicts to hide the fact that it is doing it from envy.

 Thus why it allows species to evolve to the level it wants which is when they are attaining biotic skills, asari are different as they were engineered to be as such and were mistakenly passed over by the reapers the last time as there technology and lack of ezoo involment made them seem primitive.

[Shaigunjoe]

shingara wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I know, thats what this is, spitballing!

I'm not aware that the reapers simply blow up some sentinent species and harvested others, but really the biggest issue is eezo itself.

Eezo is integral to mass relays because mass relays need them to work, that isn't a mystery.  In fact, eezo does exactly what biotics do, create and manipulate mass effect fields.  So why do the reapers need them at all?  You don't need a biotic to run the spaceships.

 Well a mass effect field and controlling biotics at the levels actual people do is another thing. A drivecore isnt able to attack or defend itself from attack, it simply creates a field just the same way an elctromagnet does. And again its like i said, if an AI becomes self aware, is told it can do everything and then sees something it cannot do, does the Ai then have emotions because of this. If it does then does that create an instance where it is jealous and passes off the conflicts to hide the fact that it is doing it from envy.

 Thus why it allows species to evolve to the level it wants which is when they are attaining biotic skills, asari are different as they were engineered to be as such and were mistakenly passed over by the reapers the last time as there technology and lack of ezoo involment made them seem primitive.

Despite what you may think, they are not different. There is no reason that a ship cannot use the same forces that it uses to create artificial gravity to defend or attack.  And electromagnet can both create AND manipulate an electrical field.  Manipulation is what the biotics do with their field to cause there power.

Also, you are wrong about the Asari being different because of genetic engineering, Javik only stats they gave them genetic guidance, and that could be many things (especially sense Javik is a soldier and not a scientist).  Eezo was probably involved however, as the Asari home planet is very rich in eezo, which makes you wonder why the reapers didn't look there.  Also, the Asari specilize in being able to take genes from other races and incorporate them into there own, a technique the Reapers should have been heavily interested in if trying to figure out how to give themselves biotics.

In edition, I think there is info on mars that you see that Protheans have provided humans with genetic guidance as well.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 11 août 2013 - 01:31 .