87 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

Just find myself curious as to the forums opinion on this matter: Duties aside, What do you feel would be a worse fate: Being addicted to lyrium where you will go a bit crazy without enough, going into withdrawl subject to hallucinations etc. (As seen in DAO with Irminric) and to where you go crazy after an extended period of taking it where you get extremely bad Dimentia etc (Its rumored it also disfigures you as reported about some Tevinter Magisters)

Or Being a Warden where your fine apart from nightmares and after 30 years have to take your calling or become a ghoul

Which is the worse fate?

[o Ventus]

Templars.

[DCowboy948209]

I would much rather be a Warden, and it comes down to personal freedom. I don't want people using an addiction they forced on me to control me. If you're a warden, you can normally leave, but you're still going to turn. If you try to leave the Templars, you have the group come chasing after you, and you go through severe hallucinogenic withdrawal.

[RosaAquafire]

I have actually spent the last five minutes sitting here thinking about this and HONESTLY neither is a great fate. The DA:O experience of being a Warden didn't really show us what it was like, since we jumped the chain of command and there were no other Wardens. It would probably actually be very confining and martial.

All things pretty much come out equal between them except that Templars are, iirc, at least SUPPOSED TO BE celibate, Sooo Wardens maybe edge out ahead for that?

[dragondreamer]

Templars are kinda sadder when it comes to the end. Wardens typically do themselves in with the Calling before they have any really debilitating symptoms. But I feel like Templars can live more of a normal life than Wardens can, so it evens out a little.

[Plaintiff]

Unless a developer says otherwise, withdrawal doesn't last forever. The taint does.

I say Templars have it easier.

[Kulyok]

I'd say templars have long lives, but have we actually seen at least one old templar in the games? Old, like seventy years old?

There was Ser Otto, but he didn't look much over fifty; same with the crazy templar near the Denerim Chantry.

[o Ventus]

Plaintiff wrote...

Unless a developer says otherwise, withdrawal doesn't last forever. The taint does.

I say Templars have it easier.

The withdrawal may not be, but the after effects seem to be.

[elvici]

While it undeniably sucks that a Warden can only expect to live about 30 years after the Joining, when you consider the overall quality of life that each can expect, I think the Wardens have it much better than the Templars. Let's face it, neither profession lends itself to longevity - can you imagine working out a retirement package for people who can reasonably expect to go head-to-head with abominations, demons, darkspawn, rabid Qunari and/or moody Meredith on a daily basis throughout their working life? There's a reason you don't see many insurance brokers in Thedas.

Templars live under constant scrutiny, and are subject to the worst kind of hierarchical BS there is: an organization arbitrated by smug bureaucrats and religous bigots, who use addiction to maintain rigid control of their troops. At least the Wardens live free, for the most part, able to fully express their personal beliefs and exercise their talents without fear of recrimination. And their armour is way sexier, too. 

Modifié par elvici, 08 août 2013 - 02:12 .

[Estelindis]

Are templars supposed to be celibate? I don't think so, given that Aveline was married to one. I think that would make being a warden the worse of the two. For me, wardens not being able to have children is a big deal... (Okay, I know it's only 100% impossible with another warden, but it's still much harder even if there's only one warden in the mix.)

[Mello]

Templars got it bad.

[Augustei]

elvici wrote...

While it undeniably sucks that a Warden can only expect to live about 30 years after the Joining, when you consider the overall quality of life that each can expect, I think the Wardens have it much better than the Templars. Let's face it, neither profession lends itself to longevity - can you imagine working out a retirement package for people who can reasonably expect to go head-to-head with abominations, demons, darkspawn, rabid Qunari and/or moody Meredith on a daily basis throughout their working life? There's a reason you don't see many insurance brokers in Thedas.

Templars live under constant scrutiny, and are subject to the worst kind of hierarchical BS there is: an organization arbitrated by smug bureaucrats and religous bigots, who use addiction to maintain rigid control of their troops. At least the Wardens live free, for the most part, able to fully express their personal beliefs and exercise their talents without fear of recrimination. And their armour is way sexier, too. 

If you take duties into consideration.
Wardens have to fight darkspawn alot of the time and traverse the deep roads - Unless outside of a blight they really do nothing other than "Remain vigilant"
Templar's have to hunt apostates (Getting attacked by Abominations and Maleficars etc.) Also i'm a bit unsure on this point but don't they lead the Vanguard of the Exalted Marches (or at least play a huge part)?

[Xilizhra]

For people who aren't outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are, templars. Otherwise, Wardens.

[Revenant147]

Templars. I'm a very straight edge type of person, so being addicted to anything is a horrible fate for me. Besides, 30 years to live after joining isn't bad at all. 30 years is a long time, I haven't even lived that long yet.

[Estelindis]

Xilizhra wrote...

For people who aren't outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are, templars. Otherwise, Wardens.

You appear to be calling everyone in this thread who has said "Wardens" outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are.

[brushyourteeth]

I'm giving this thread five starts just because the OP remembered Irminric.


I'd say... being a Templar is worse.

As a Warden, you may not be recognized by anyone for your sacrifice, and you may not even be able to do anything considered especially heroic besides thinning out the darkspawn numbers. But you at least have a camaraderie with your fellows and know for certain that you're doing something useful with your life. Depending on your circumstances, it may have been the means by which you escaped a life that was much worse.

As a Templar, unless you're either very devoted to the Chantry and very convinced that what you're doing is the Maker's will, you're not going to have any sense of job fulfillment, period. You're basically a jailer, and part of your job involves tearing people away from their families and killing or mentally neutering them if they're suspicious. You're a constant target for violence from the people you live with (mages) and your comrades could be attacked at any time around you. Regardless of what the priests say, you live with the ghosts of all the terrible things you've done and witnessed done, and chances are high that your friendships with your fellows are shallow and guarded. Many of them will love cruelty for cruelty's sake, and those that don't aren't likely to open up about it for fear of being suspect, so you'll have a hard time finding comfort in their friendship too. Add lyrium addiction to all that and little chance of a spouse or family and it sounds like a pretty crappy life. :/

[elvici]

Revenant24 wrote...

Templars. I'm a very straight edge type of person, so being addicted to anything is a horrible fate for me. Besides, 30 years to live after joining isn't bad at all. 30 years is a long time, I haven't even lived that long yet.

I agree that Templars do have it worse, but would argue that addiction itself is not inherently as problematic as the mindset that accompanies it (Templars, by their very nature, are followers. Being a follower, and being immersed in a self-perpetuating cycle of reinforcement, bolstered by personal philosophy and systematized manipulation, would make it so much harder to kick that pesky addiction). For that reason alone, I do pity dem poor Templars.

Modifié par elvici, 08 août 2013 - 03:03 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

30 years for warden is max some wardens starts truning into ghoul after few years , i don't even mention that wardens have to spend most of their lives on deep roads and we seen only two wardens who managed escape from wardens fiona and anders even our warden if leaves them he come back to be warden-commander and you can't do nothing about it. Such thing as family for warden barely exist because they fight with darkspawn so can rarely see each other.

If you are templar simple you can escape and deal with addiction of course they will hunt you but at least you have chance.

[Xilizhra]

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

For people who aren't outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are, templars. Otherwise, Wardens.

You appear to be calling everyone in this thread who has said "Wardens" outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are.

Well, it's part and parcel of being a templar. Of course, they might be answering in a sense that disregards all duties either one has to perform and they just dislike the shortened lifespan.

[wolfhowwl]

Both have the honor and burden of defending the people of Thedas from a powerful and evil danger.

However Wardens may not face a blight in their lifetime while Templars have to deal with the daily atrocities committed by those disgusting maleficar.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 08 août 2013 - 03:19 .

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

For people who aren't outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are, templars. Otherwise, Wardens.

You appear to be calling everyone in this thread who has said "Wardens" outright malevolent or willing to accept orders that are.

Well, it's part and parcel of being a templar. Of course, they might be answering in a sense that disregards all duties either one has to perform and they just dislike the shortened lifespan.

In general I can agree with the spirit of what you're saying, Xilizhra, but I do think you're failing to include those Templars who

- are simply misguided, but not by nature malicious, and believe they are doing the right thing because they have been told so by someone who represents God
- enter the Order because they have few options and find out too late what it really involves
- are given to the Chantry as children and have little or no choice but to join
- the very few who believe they can help and protect mages by filling the role, thus no one more brutal does

I'm positive that your answer will be "none of those are excuses for the atrocities they commit and allow to be committed," but you have to admit that there are some Templars who aren't malevolent, and there are even still some Templars who aren't willing (at least knowingly) to accept orders that are malevolent.

Then after joining, lyrium is a very effective means of control.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 08 août 2013 - 03:14 .

[happy_daiz]

The Calling.

[Huntress]

Worst that could happen to someone in Thedas is been born Mage, your parent's are in constant danger of you blowing them up while grown or getting them killed by templars if discovered.

Either way that is a huge responsability left for a mage the moment they gain conscience, that happens at the age of 4 if i am not mistaken.

When a young mage realize that a big part of thedas sees them as a curse and at night time voices takes shapes in the darkest places of their mind, then they realize a mage is never trully alone and someone or something is always hunting them in a fisical form or in dreams.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Templars is a worse fate because mages are so much better than them!

Plus DAO has made me extremely bias to the Grey Wardens so I'll never dislike the Wardens.