283 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

I thought some of the flipping around for Rogues in DA2 was over the top, I did like the mage flourishes during casting though, and I thought the animations for the 2-handed weilders was rather silly. Also, the exploding bodies was silly.

DAO was a little slow and mundane. And really, a rogue dual weilding long swords?

Hoping for a good mix of speed and special animations without them being too silly.

Using two full lenght swords isn't really outlandish. The japanese warrior Musashi Miyamoto pioneered and constituted the nitenryuu, the school of fighting with two swords. Whilst that was originally the classical gear combination of the full lenght Katana and the backup short sword Wakazashi simultanously, the school lateron also incorporated the use of two full lenght swords.

In europe on the other hand, it wasn't uncommon to fight with sword and short axe or hammer/mace or any combination thereof, especially in times when armies started to combine heavily armored knights and lightly armored (if at all armored with more than a leather jerkin, maybe some chainmail) for the common footsoldiers. Hammer/mace for the armored enemies, axe/sword for the soft targets.

Dual weilding has never been a common military tactic. When knights fought, they carried a variety of weapons in them, and would switch weapons when the situation called for it. Or they would create combination weapons like the pollaxe to cut down on the weiggt of carrying all that gear. They weren't using two weapons at once because building momentum and force for a slash  or any move outside of a stabbing one wasn't there for it to do the damage a two handed strike could preform. Its why two handed weapons were so favored in combat.

In dueling even, you never actively used both weapons. One weapon would be fore attacking, the other was for defending. You could switch which was which per attack, but you couldn't just use both of them like how you could in DAO without running yourself ragged very quickly.

[Mimitochan]

That was one of the things that really really bothered me, the ninja-like animations in DA2.
I mostly play rogues, and for that precise reason, I have never ever used dual-blade because it looks so silly - Hawke looks like she had way too much coffee all the time. And I didn't feel like it matched really well the artistic style of the game.

I really did enjoy DA2, but only because I played as archer Hawke - the animations there (aiming, mainly) are somewhat slower. It may be just a matter of speed though - on the overall, DA2 animations probably look more "stylish", with more sophisticated effects and so on, more variety, but they may look cartoonish just because they're too fast-paced.

The problem is that the speed of the animations is linked to the combat system - I suppose that's why they wanted them in DA2 to be so quick, to make the combat more quick-paced and responsive.

I still prefer a slower, more realistic pace - it just makes it all more believable and awesome to me - so if they're going to go back to more of DA:O-style, or even a mix of the two, that's very good news for me.

Add a "Flycam" feature, and I'm a happy.

[mikeymoonshine]

For ma the animations weren't the problem and the speed was fine. It's just the combat itself was dull, waves and waves of enemies that you would just have to hack away at with button mashing, All those wonderful abilities but most of them were not really that useful they just took off a bit more health than the usual attack or they knocked the enemies over as well.

I ended up playing on easy just to get through the battles quicker.

[byarru]

DA:O's battle animation was muuuch better. Just speed it up a bit

[Jaulen]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

I thought some of the flipping around for Rogues in DA2 was over the top, I did like the mage flourishes during casting though, and I thought the animations for the 2-handed weilders was rather silly. Also, the exploding bodies was silly.

DAO was a little slow and mundane. And really, a rogue dual weilding long swords?

Hoping for a good mix of speed and special animations without them being too silly.

Using two full lenght swords isn't really outlandish. The japanese warrior Musashi Miyamoto pioneered and constituted the nitenryuu, the school of fighting with two swords. Whilst that was originally the classical gear combination of the full lenght Katana and the backup short sword Wakazashi simultanously, the school lateron also incorporated the use of two full lenght swords.

In europe on the other hand, it wasn't uncommon to fight with sword and short axe or hammer/mace or any combination thereof, especially in times when armies started to combine heavily armored knights and lightly armored (if at all armored with more than a leather jerkin, maybe some chainmail) for the common footsoldiers. Hammer/mace for the armored enemies, axe/sword for the soft targets.

Dual weilding has never been a common military tactic. When knights fought, they carried a variety of weapons in them, and would switch weapons when the situation called for it. Or they would create combination weapons like the pollaxe to cut down on the weiggt of carrying all that gear. They weren't using two weapons at once because building momentum and force for a slash  or any move outside of a stabbing one wasn't there for it to do the damage a two handed strike could preform. Its why two handed weapons were so favored in combat.

In dueling even, you never actively used both weapons. One weapon would be fore attacking, the other was for defending. You could switch which was which per attack, but you couldn't just use both of them like how you could in DAO without running yourself ragged very quickly.

^ This response to the response.

[Straw Nihilist]

It sure as hell was better than the combat in DA:O.

[Mashiro Yuki]

Billie Bones wrote...

It sure as hell was better than the combat in DA:O.

[andar91]

Somewhere in the middle, I think. I think DA2 went too far on some things, but other things were way better. For instance, I LOVE the animation used for the glyph spells. I hope more abilities have animations specifically tailored for their effects (when possible and appropriate).

[Rawgrim]

No. Manga\\anime`ish combat is the lamest thing on this planet.

[Jaulen]

Billie Bones wrote...

It sure as hell was better than the combat in DA:O.

Eh, I'm a mature gamer, I like having to do a LITTLE thinking while playing. Even if frustrating and I die a lot...better sense of accomplishment for me than being able to just mash a button and win.

[redBadger14]

Not really, most attacks were way too fast, especially for Warriors. I did enjoy the Mage animations simply because no more slow pokes with the staff like in DA:O.

Plus, it's hard to enjoy DA2's combat when it's less strategic and more "lets toss so many enemies at you that you just mash A to win." The animations need to be faster, but more realistic, not anime-like. I don't want to play an anime/manga game, I want to play Dragon Age.

[The Serge777]

Bleachrude wrote...

I'm ALWAYS amused by the "that's not realistic" chage against warriors (and especially rogues) yet no-one blinks an eye when a mage lets loose a Storm of the Century.

As for the "anime" charge, I suggest you read more Western mythology like Beowulf or even greek epics (seriously, Beowulf has an anime powerup stage straight out of DBZ and the actual physical feats of prowess for greek heroes would make your typical anime ninja jealous).

This.  I agree with you 100%. 

Still, I think the issue here -- like a lot of things in the transition from DAO to DAII -- is that the change is jarring.  I was startled, but not upset, when I played the Rogue in the demo.  The flipping around was unexpected; however, I thought it as distinct from the warrior and I loved the Backstab.  I always hated the way Rogues in DAO sort of lumbered around to Backstab and actually making this classic thief/rogue (in the D&D sense) an actual move was inspired and fun.  And I can't tell you how many times I laughed out loud when Fenris came flying in from off-screen to pulp-spray an adversary pestering my mage.  Loved it.

What I hope they do here, though, is find a nice middle ground between DAO and DAII.  While I liked most of the heightened combat elements, I get why many were less than impressed.  Something that's a little slower works. However, I don't think it needs to be "more realistic;" rather, it needs to be more grounded with the original context established in DAO with the flare introduced in DAII. 

[Blackrising]

I love how your title is so completely unbiased.

On topic:
Yes, I prefer the DA2 combat to the DA:O combat. DA:O combat was clunky and slow and, frankly, very annoying at times. DA2 combat had its flaws, no doubt, but I liked that it was so much faster. Plus, it looked a hundred times more badass.

I'm interested in seeing how the combat is gonna feel in DA:I, since they said it would go back to being a bit more strategic, but retain a faster pace. What I've seen in the game informer video so far looks very promising.

[King KvT I]

Origin's combat mechanic felt too much like a chore in quite a lot of cases, it seemed very heavy and clunky, on top of the unresponsiveness that it gave off; on the other hand, DA2's combat felt too repetetive and was a bit all over the place, not to mention that it felt rather pointless. The two games essentially did the opposite of one another when it comes to this.

If they could capture the tactical elements of Origins, which made the combat feel worth it, and bring in the responsiveness of 2, then it would be on path for a winner.

Modifié par King KvT, 08 août 2013 - 04:50 .

[King KvT I]

(Double Post)

Modifié par King KvT, 08 août 2013 - 04:50 .

[andar91]

The Serge777 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I'm ALWAYS amused by the "that's not realistic" chage against warriors (and especially rogues) yet no-one blinks an eye when a mage lets loose a Storm of the Century.

As for the "anime" charge, I suggest you read more Western mythology like Beowulf or even greek epics (seriously, Beowulf has an anime powerup stage straight out of DBZ and the actual physical feats of prowess for greek heroes would make your typical anime ninja jealous).

This.  I agree with you 100%. 

Still, I think the issue here -- like a lot of things in the transition from DAO to DAII -- is that the change is jarring.  I was startled, but not upset, when I played the Rogue in the demo.  The flipping around was unexpected; however, I thought it as distinct from the warrior and I loved the Backstab.  I always hated the way Rogues in DAO sort of lumbered around to Backstab and actually making this classic thief/rogue (in the D&D sense) an actual move was inspired and fun.  And I can't tell you how many times I laughed out loud when Fenris came flying in from off-screen to pulp-spray an adversary pestering my mage.  Loved it.

What I hope they do here, though, is find a nice middle ground between DAO and DAII.  While I liked most of the heightened combat elements, I get why many were less than impressed.  Something that's a little slower works. However, I don't think it needs to be "more realistic;" rather, it needs to be more grounded with the original context established in DAO with the flare introduced in DAII. 

And I think that distinct visual style between classes is still possible. A rogue doesn't need to teleport for a backstab, but they could quickly maneuver around or do a quick roll or something. Warriors can still execute a Scythe ability by running forward in a line rapidly, but not where they are literally a blur.

I have no idea how far Bioware are taking this, but we'll see.

[shinobi602]

I don't want to go back to the canned attack animations of DA: O, but also would like more fluidity to combat animations unlike the extremely twitchy animations of DA2.

Playing as a mage in DA2 is badass though.

Just let me play it as an action RPG if I wanted to.

Modifié par shinobi602, 08 août 2013 - 05:10 .

[zMataxa]

Dubozz wrote...

DA2 combat for rogues was my favourite, it was fast and entertaining. Warriors? not so much. It was a bit too fast, DAO in this case was better. Mages - same as warriors, but animation was really awesome.

+1

[Shadow Fox]

DA2 just make the Rogue combat stance less stupid.

Origins combat sucked.

[Am1vf]

Talking only about the animations, in DAO it wasn't realistic at all and it certainly wasn't good animations, in DA][ at least the animations where fluid and interesting although not the direction I would have prefered. I'm interested to see how they treat it this time and hope it is closer to reality (just my presonal preference).

[Vortex13]

I'm all for the sync-kill animations of DA:O making a comeback in DA:I

Stabbing an enemy in the chest, and then spinning around to decapitate them > enemy pops like a ballon.

[zMataxa]

Bleachrude wrote...

I'm ALWAYS amused by the "that's not realistic" chage against warriors (and especially rogues) yet no-one blinks an eye when a mage lets loose a Storm of the Century.

As for the "anime" charge, I suggest you read more Western mythology like Beowulf or even greek epics (seriously, Beowulf has an anime powerup stage straight out of DBZ and the actual physical feats of prowess for greek heroes would make your typical anime ninja jealous).

Haha well said.  My thoughts exactly.
Here we are playing a total fantasy game - but they can't flip or swing like that.
I thought the DA2 animations were great - a breath of something new.

That said, I would be fine with a hybrid.
I'd pay extra for some "major exaggeration" moves. 
Made it still fun to get through the "boring waves of enemies."