Is it possible that there's Kossith Grey Wardens?
Kossith Grey Wardens
Débuté par
Lokiwithrope
, août 08 2013 04:50
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#2
Posté 08 août 2013 - 04:56
Forst1999
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If I remember correctly, Sten was out to find an answer for the Arishok regarding Wardens and the Blight. So the qunari seem to be ignorant about the whole subject. That makes them rather bad candidates.
But it is imaginable that an occasional runaway could join the wardens. We don't have any hint for the existance of a Tal-Vasoth warden, but it isn't impossible.
But it is imaginable that an occasional runaway could join the wardens. We don't have any hint for the existance of a Tal-Vasoth warden, but it isn't impossible.
Modifié par Forst1999, 08 août 2013 - 04:56 .
#3
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:00
Danny Boy 7
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Maybe? Unlikely in my honest opinion. It would seem like the only potential way this would happen is if they were Tal'Vashoth and I would assume they wouldn't want to trade one master for another. This is of course ignoring unforseen circumstances.
#4
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:05
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As far as we know the Kossith originate from a landmass that is completely secluded from the currently know continental Thedas, hence they never even encountered the Darkspawn.
The fact that the Qunari send an expedition to Fereldan during a Blight to find out about it however suggests that they are not ignorant of the issue. The question is thus whether the average joe Kossith truly recognizes the actual threat of a Blight and the relation of Grey Warden vs Archdemon, of if they deem this a purely strategical matter of warfare that can be neutralized by standard military approaches.
I am sure that once any Kossith knows about the importance of Grey Wardens and feels a sufficient necessity to help against a Darkspawn incursion, they had little objection to what is a simple necessity to end a Blight.
Another question would be how Qun influenced Kossith would react to the prospect of using magic to empower you with the abilities of a Grey Warden, hence possibly reject the whole thing out of philosophical doctrine.
In short though, every single Kossith we have encountered we pretty sensible and pragmatic characters, so if the need is present, I very much expect that the odd number of those would do it.
The fact that the Qunari send an expedition to Fereldan during a Blight to find out about it however suggests that they are not ignorant of the issue. The question is thus whether the average joe Kossith truly recognizes the actual threat of a Blight and the relation of Grey Warden vs Archdemon, of if they deem this a purely strategical matter of warfare that can be neutralized by standard military approaches.
I am sure that once any Kossith knows about the importance of Grey Wardens and feels a sufficient necessity to help against a Darkspawn incursion, they had little objection to what is a simple necessity to end a Blight.
Another question would be how Qun influenced Kossith would react to the prospect of using magic to empower you with the abilities of a Grey Warden, hence possibly reject the whole thing out of philosophical doctrine.
In short though, every single Kossith we have encountered we pretty sensible and pragmatic characters, so if the need is present, I very much expect that the odd number of those would do it.
#5
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:08
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Forst1999: I'm pretty sure the 4th Blight was stated to be about 400 years before the start of Origins, while the Qunari showed up only about 300-350 years before. Garahel's victory against the 4th Blight was so thorough that most surfacers assumed they'd been defeated for good. The Qunari can't help not being experts about a subject that got pushed out of sight, out of mind for most people before they even arrived.
What's more, most average people don't know that much about darkspawn either. Most people you encounter in Origins assume the darkspawn's blood is "black as sin" (even soldiers who had been fighting them for three battles at Ostagar) while only Wardens know it's red. Most Wardens that Duncan recruits have never encountered darkspawn, most can ask, "I thought the darkspawn were extinct?" and the Dalish Warden hadn't even heard of the darkspawn before waking from the tainted mirror.
You don't have to have prior knowledge of darkspawn going in, because they can fill you in once they get there. (Heck, the Grey Wardens' JOB is to make it so average citizens don't HAVE to know about darkspawn.) You just have to be a very strong, skilled, resourceful, determined fighter of some kind (warrior, rogue, mage) who seems like they stand a chance of surviving the Joining. The kossith have this in spades.
What's more, most average people don't know that much about darkspawn either. Most people you encounter in Origins assume the darkspawn's blood is "black as sin" (even soldiers who had been fighting them for three battles at Ostagar) while only Wardens know it's red. Most Wardens that Duncan recruits have never encountered darkspawn, most can ask, "I thought the darkspawn were extinct?" and the Dalish Warden hadn't even heard of the darkspawn before waking from the tainted mirror.
You don't have to have prior knowledge of darkspawn going in, because they can fill you in once they get there. (Heck, the Grey Wardens' JOB is to make it so average citizens don't HAVE to know about darkspawn.) You just have to be a very strong, skilled, resourceful, determined fighter of some kind (warrior, rogue, mage) who seems like they stand a chance of surviving the Joining. The kossith have this in spades.
Modifié par Faerunner, 08 août 2013 - 05:12 .
#6
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:11
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never mind
Modifié par Vit246, 08 août 2013 - 07:34 .
#7
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:18
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Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
Modifié par Faerunner, 08 août 2013 - 05:19 .
#8
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:24
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The existence of Ogres suggests they've encountered a few.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
they never even encountered the Darkspawn..
#9
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:28
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Taleroth wrote...
The existence of Ogres suggests they've encountered a few.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
they never even encountered the Darkspawn..
I'm not quite sure, is it certain Ogres come from Kossith broodmothers, or not possibly from another, yet unknown species (possibly from beyond the Korkari Wilds)?
But even if Ogres comes from Kossith, it doesn't necessarily say they have encountered each other in any significant capacity, especially as they positively never had encountered a Blight on their territories.
#10
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:38
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Pretty sure it's mentioned in the lore book that ogres come from Qunari/tal vashoth broodmothers. Don't see why a Tal Vashoth couldn't become a Warden. A Qunari? I honestly don't know how they would feel about that. What an interesting question.
Modifié par discosuperfly, 08 août 2013 - 05:44 .
#11
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:42
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discosuperfly wrote...
Pretty sure it's mentioned in the lore book that ogres come from Qunari/tal vashoth broodmothers. Don't see why a Tal Vashoth couldn't become a Warden.
Always take the Codex with a grain of salt as it's mostly writtin in-universe and as such to biased and subjective perception.
Either way, Ogres don't put too much a dent in my argument, which is that any Kossith have had relatively little contact with Darkspawn and hence little necessity to fall back to something like the Grey Wardens.
#12
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:46
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People sure do love their antiquate terms that not even the dev team uses or the people themselves.
But anyway, it is entirely possible for a tal vashoth to become a grey warden. They'd probably be named grey warden as well, depending on how things go. But the number of them would be an issue. You'd probably have one or two, and that's it, just enough to have an exception to the rule.
But anyway, it is entirely possible for a tal vashoth to become a grey warden. They'd probably be named grey warden as well, depending on how things go. But the number of them would be an issue. You'd probably have one or two, and that's it, just enough to have an exception to the rule.
#13
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:46
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Where do you get your facts from then, and how do you account for the striking resemblance between ogre and Kossith?Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
discosuperfly wrote...
Pretty sure it's mentioned in the lore book that ogres come from Qunari/tal vashoth broodmothers. Don't see why a Tal Vashoth couldn't become a Warden.
Always take the Codex with a grain of salt as it's mostly writtin in-universe and as such to biased and subjective perception.
Modifié par discosuperfly, 08 août 2013 - 05:52 .
#14
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:49
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discosuperfly wrote...
How do you account for the striking resemblance between ogre and Kossith then?Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
discosuperfly wrote...
Pretty sure it's mentioned in the lore book that ogres come from Qunari/tal vashoth broodmothers. Don't see why a Tal Vashoth couldn't become a Warden.
Always take the Codex with a grain of salt as it's mostly writtin in-universe and as such to biased and subjective perception.
I would in fact argue that when compared to the resemblance of Genlocks to dwarves, Hurlocks to humans and Sharlocks to Elvhen in general body structure, Ogres have very little resemblance to Kossith except for their horns.
That or all Kossith we've encountered so far are midgets.
#15
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:49
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Whatever this unknown species is, they would have to be even more elusive than the Qunari for people to not have made that connection.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
The existence of Ogres suggests they've encountered a few.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
they never even encountered the Darkspawn..
I'm not quite sure, is it certain Ogres come from Kossith broodmothers, or not possibly from another, yet unknown species (possibly from beyond the Korkari Wilds)?
#16
Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:52
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I believe teh World of Thedas timeline indicates the kossith/Qunari did establish a colony on Thedas prior to the Steel Age (when they arrived in force), and it was wiped out during one of the early Blights. Presumably, that's where ogre broodmothers came from.
As to whether "ox men" could become Grey Wardens...sure why not? As long as tehy survive the Joining. But they almost certainly wouldn't be Qunari anymore, if they were before. They'd have to leave that life behind.
As to whether "ox men" could become Grey Wardens...sure why not? As long as tehy survive the Joining. But they almost certainly wouldn't be Qunari anymore, if they were before. They'd have to leave that life behind.
#17
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 05:57
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Taleroth wrote...
Whatever this unknown species is, they would have to be even more elusive than the Qunari for people to not have made that connection.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
The existence of Ogres suggests they've encountered a few.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
they never even encountered the Darkspawn..
I'm not quite sure, is it certain Ogres come from Kossith broodmothers, or not possibly from another, yet unknown species (possibly from beyond the Korkari Wilds)?
It's why I speculated with beyond the Korkari Wilds, which is virtually unmapped, hence completely alien to Thedas.
But I'm just talking out of my ass here, just trying to offer alternative backups for my biased opinion, is all.
#18
Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:09
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Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself.Faerunner wrote...
Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
#19
Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:12
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Battlebloodmage wrote...
Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself.Faerunner wrote...
Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
Qunari gave up using the word kossith when their entire society became devoted to the qun. Calling them kossith is like calling germans, danish. belgians, swiss, czech, lithuanians and polish prussians, because that's what they used to be.
#20
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:13
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Battlebloodmage wrote...
Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself.Faerunner wrote...
Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
With due respect to Mr. Gaider, for as long as we have no other name for the race, I will keep using the term Kossith to distingiush the race as opposed to the philosophy that encompasses multiple different races.
Semantic distinction is necessary in this case and we don't have any accurate alternatives.
#21
Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:16
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iakus wrote...
As to whether "ox men" could become Grey Wardens...sure why not? As long as tehy survive the Joining. But they almost certainly wouldn't be Qunari anymore, if they were before. They'd have to leave that life behind.
I don't see why Qunari couldn't be Grey Wardens while still being Qunari,
i imagine it would be structured like another arm of their military. Their soldiers are free to choose within their role (one of those could be becoming a Grey Warden) and i asume it will be the same for their other 2 pillars.
Sepperate units also seem to be given the freedom to do what they deem necesary according to the highest ranked member of the group. So it wouldn't be far fetched they would except whatever the Warden Commander deems right (including the use of magic to prepare the blood of the darkspawn for the joining ritual).
The Qunari don't abhor magic, just the potential evil (demons/chaos) behind it.
#22
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:22
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I was wondering how long it would take for the vocabulary police to show up.
#23
Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:22
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I think the main problem Mr. Gaider has with the use of kossith is people keep correcting others like that's the official term and proper term. He said that people are free to use the term.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Battlebloodmage wrote...
Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself.Faerunner wrote...
Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
With due respect to Mr. Gaider, for as long as we have no other name for the race, I will keep using the term Kossith to distingiush the race as opposed to the philosophy that encompasses multiple different races.
Semantic distinction is necessary in this case and we don't have any accurate alternatives.
Here is one of his posts:
"What I don't like is people referring to "Kossith" as if it's a term that everyone should know-- as opposed to something that's been barely mentioned in-game. People also use it incorrectly, using Kossith when what they actually mean is Tal-Vashoth.
It's also not a term the Qunari would use themselves. If you want to refer to the horned race, it's Qunari. Members of their religion who are not also part of the horned race are generally called Viddathari. If you really want to say "Kossith", that's up to you-- we can hardly stop you, and I've no idea why you'd care about what we think-- but it's a little annoying when people roll out "Kossith" first, when everyone would know what they're talking about if they just said "Qunari"."
#24
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Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:24
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Battlebloodmage wrote...
I think the main problem Mr. Gaider has with the use of kossith is people keep correcting others like that's the official term and proper term. He said that people are free to use the term.Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Battlebloodmage wrote...
Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself.Faerunner wrote...
Kossith =/= Qunari.
Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.
Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.
I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)
With due respect to Mr. Gaider, for as long as we have no other name for the race, I will keep using the term Kossith to distingiush the race as opposed to the philosophy that encompasses multiple different races.
Semantic distinction is necessary in this case and we don't have any accurate alternatives.
Here is one of his posts:
"What I don't like is people referring to "Kossith" as if it's a term that everyone should know-- as opposed to something that's been barely mentioned in-game. People also use it incorrectly, using Kossith when what they actually mean is Tal-Vashoth.
It's also not a term the Qunari would use themselves. If you want to refer to the horned race, it's Qunari. Members of their religion who are not also part of the horned race are generally called Viddathari. If you really want to say "Kossith", that's up to you-- we can hardly stop you, and I've no idea why you'd care about what we think-- but it's a little annoying when people roll out "Kossith" first, when everyone would know what they're talking about if they just said "Qunari"."
Huh, I always thought Viddethari was a term for initiates to the Qun. Tallis for example refers to herself as a Qunari and not a Viddethari, just to give an ingame reference.
I'm a bit confused right now ...
#25
Posté 08 août 2013 - 06:28
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Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Huh, I always thought Viddethari was a term for initiates to the Qun. Tallis for example refers to herself as a Qunari and not a Viddethari, just to give an ingame reference.
I'm a bit confused right now ...
Here is a post of him clarify on the issue:
"PsychoBlonde wrote...
The way this term was used in-game led me to believe that viddathari meant voluntary converts (like Shamus or the elven brothers) who were still learning the Qun, as opposed to conquered or neutral people who were in the process of being converted en masse. Those seem to be called kabethari. Qunari seemed to be reserved for full-blown converts who were integrated into Qunari society (like Tallis) or for people who were born into it.
This is correct. All Kabethari will become Viddathari eventually, unless they resist and are turned into mindless workers.
Viddathari will always think of themselves as Qunari, but others will continue to maintain that distinction. So if you're looking for a term to refer to them by, that would be correct. If you're afraid that, by using the term Qunari, you're going to confuse someone who thinks you're referring to the likes of Tallis, I can assure you you're going to confuse far less people than by using "Kossith" (which, as I said, is also sometimes used incorrectly and-- more annoying-- sometimes has people chiding others for not knowing a term which is only brought up in a few codex entries)."
If they join voluntarily then they are referred to as viddathari and if not, they are called kabethari. In general though, the term qunari usually is used to refer to both the race and the religion itself.
Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 08 août 2013 - 06:30 .
