49 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Can't we just call them ox-men and save ourselves the trouble of being politically correct to the fictional race of horned metallic skinned giants?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 08 août 2013 - 06:33 .

[Iakus]

Gwinever wrote...

iakus wrote...

As to whether "ox men" could become Grey Wardens...sure why not? As long as tehy survive the Joining. But they almost certainly wouldn't be Qunari anymore, if they were before. They'd have to leave that life behind.

I don't see why Qunari couldn't be Grey Wardens while still being Qunari,
i imagine it would be structured like another arm of their military. Their soldiers are free to choose within their role (one of those could be becoming a Grey Warden) and i asume it will be the same for their other 2 pillars.
Sepperate units also seem to be given the freedom to do what they deem necesary according to the highest ranked member of the group. So it wouldn't be far fetched they would except whatever the Warden Commander deems right (including the use of magic to prepare the blood of the darkspawn for the joining ritual).
The Qunari don't abhor magic, just the potential evil  (demons/chaos) behind it.

The thing is, Grey Wardens live outside the roles of society.  They wouldn't answer to the Arishok.  They'd answer to the Warden-Commander, and ultimately, to the First Warden.

In addition, the roles of the qunari are selected by the Tamassran at a young age.  The Wardens select their own, and can choose anyone from any walk of life, regardless of previous role in society.  Even mages.  The Qunari would NOT go for that.

This is not to say the Qunari couldn't create their own Qun-friendly version of the Grey Wardens.  Just that it would be run in a very different fashion

[Battlebloodmage]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Well okay.

I don't get how it is any less confusing than using Kossith, provided you use the latter correctly (as I've done I think), but whatever. The writer has spoken.

I think the the two problems he has with the use are:

1. The qunari themselves don't even use the term, and they consider themselves to be qunari, and simply qunari, just like Sten is just Sten. 
2. People often correct people for not knowing the supposed correct term.

If you want to use it then use it, I don't think anyone can stop you. It's not wrong, but it is just not something the Dragon Age universe would use when they're talking about qunari. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 08 août 2013 - 06:36 .

[Iakus]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Well okay.

I don't get how it is any less confusing than using Kossith, provided you use the latter correctly (as I've done I think), but whatever. The writer has spoken.

I think it's just because the term is not well known in the game world.

I mean, if you call Zevran an elf, he'll know what you're saying, even if he identifies himself as Antivan. 

Call Sten a kossith, and he'll just look at you and go "A whatnow?"

Of course, if you call him an ox man, he might just show you the door without bothering to open it...

[Battlebloodmage]

discosuperfly wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Can't we just call them ox-men and save ourselves the trouble of being politically correct to the fictional race of horned metallic skinned giants?

Ox-folk... don't ignore the ladies. 

Where does Flemeth fit into this then? 

[Battlebloodmage]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Well, what's the sexual opposite of an Ox man?


A cow girl *padum tish*

Since you say opposite of an ox man then wouldn't it be *put on glasses* reverse cow girl? 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

One thing that amused me was that although it mentions that "Kossith" was an antiquated term that nobody but a few Tamassans even knew about, World of Thedas uses the term in the same way Gaider didn't like.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 août 2013 - 07:24 .

[Iron Star]

SPOILERS: Now that Sten is the new arishok, and know how dire the darkspawn threat can be, it's not entirely impossible that he'll start to send the occasional recruit now and then.

Modifié par Get fired up, 08 août 2013 - 07:28 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

IS Sten always the new Arishok or only if he survived the cage in Lothering?

I think a Qunari could become a Grey Warden if his assigned role was to fight the darkspawn. HIs loyalty would probably still be to the Arishok than the first Warden though. That might be unusual, but Warden deserters are not unheard of.

[Angrywolves]

not possible.

[jmk1999]

i have to agree that a qunari would feel his duty is to the qun and the qunari hierarchy. he/she may find their duty to be to protect the world from the blight, just as sten did, but suppose the warden wished to conscript sten. i believe that sten would have no allegiance to the wardens, particularly when there is no qunari treaty with the wardens. as mentioned in game, the wardens have a treaty with the dwarves, the dalish, the circle, and pretty much any citizen of their jurisdiction (be it ferelden, orlais, anderfells, etc.)... the qunari do not fall under any of those, so pretty much, sten could say to go fly a kite and leave. now, since, as mentioned before, sten is now the arishok, if he were to agree to a treaty (only by conversing and agreeing with the other sects of the qun) with the wardens, then sure, why not? sadly, the qunari belief seems to be at odds with the warden belief of absolute necessity to stop the blight. if it were to come down to blood magic or something, i doubt a qunari warden would be happy about accepting that. on the other hand, a tal-vashoth might be ok with it (depending on their own personal views) since their life is no longer dictated by the qun. for example, i think if maraas (from DA2) deemed the cause to be noble, he would gladly agree to join the wardens... especially so when he is a special case where he found no allegiance to the qun nor the tal-vashoth.

on a semi-related note, did anyone notice the qunari screenshot on the dragon age site with the words about picking a race... do i sense hinting at a kossith/tal-vashoth/qunari inquisitor? i get the feeling this might be biowares surprise to fans as the release gets closer.

Modifié par jmk1999, 20 août 2013 - 08:38 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

jmk1999 wrote...

i have to agree that a qunari would feel his duty is to the qun and the qunari hierarchy. he/she may find their duty to be to protect the world from the blight, just as sten did, but suppose the warden wished to conscript sten. i believe that sten would have no allegiance to the wardens, particularly when there is no qunari treaty with the wardens. as mentioned in game, the wardens have a treaty with the dwarves, the dalish, the circle, and pretty much any citizen of their jurisdiction (be it ferelden, orlais, anderfells, etc.)... the qunari do not fall under any of those, so pretty much, sten could say to go fly a kite and leave. now, since, as mentioned before, sten is now the arishok, if he were to agree to a treaty (only by conversing and agreeing with the other sects of the qun) with the wardens, then sure, why not? sadly, the qunari belief seems to be at odds with the warden belief of absolute necessity to stop the blight. if it were to come down to blood magic or something, i doubt a qunari warden would be happy about accepting that. on the other hand, a tal-vashoth might be ok with it (depending on their own personal views) since their life is no longer dictated by the qun. for example, i think if maraas (from DA2) deemed the cause to be noble, he would gladly agree to join the wardens... especially so when he is a special case where he found no allegiance to the qun nor the tal-vashoth.

on a semi-related note, did anyone notice the qunari screenshot on the dragon age site with the words about picking a race... do i sense hinting at a kossith/tal-vashoth/qunari inquisitor? i get the feeling this might be biowares surprise to fans as the release gets closer.

i might instantly pre order the game if they do.

[Warden Inquisitor]

If the Grey Wardens could get whoever is in charge of the Qunari to sign the treaty promising support during a blight, then they might not care if Grey Wardens conscript a few Kossith to join their ranks. If a Kossith if already part of the military arm of the Qun they will probably see it as what their lifetime role would be.

[jmk1999]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

i might instantly pre order the game if they do.

technically, according to game informer's article, bioware neither confirmed nor denied the idea. they just said that the other three were a definite.

[Spectre slayer]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

Kossith =/= Qunari.

Kossith is (what fans call) the race of horned giants while Qunari are followers of the Qun.

Not all kossith follow the Qun, which is why kossith that reject the Qun are called Tal-Vashoth.

I see no reason why kossith can't end up joining the Grey Wardens, given the right circumstances. (Tal-Vashoth approach the Wardens looking for a purpose, the Wardens discover and conscript them, etc.)

Actually, Kossith IS qunari. If you read David Gaider's old posts, he would state that he prefer for people to use the term qunari when describing the race and not just the religion itself. 

With due respect to Mr. Gaider, for as long as we have no other name for the race, I will keep using the term Kossith to distingiush the race as opposed to the philosophy that encompasses multiple different races.

Semantic distinction is necessary in this case and we don't have any accurate alternatives.

No he would say stop using the term Kossith to describe the horned Qunari and that they are only Qunari if they feel the need to distinguish them they will and that he doesn't understand why people use the term Kossith since it's not proper and will not be used in the game.

Here this was something he posted July 9 2013
Confession: I hate how the kossith are referred to as Qunari as a people. They are only Qunari if the follow the Qun, and any race can be Qunari.

To anyone in Thedas who doesn’t know any better, they’re all Qunari. The culture and the religion are one and the same thing.

"But what about the followers of the Qun who aren’t big, horned people?"
Properly, they’re viddathari. But since nobody would know what that means, you can call them “elven Qunari”, “human Qunari” or what have you. They are, after all, exceptions to the rule.

"But what about big, horned people who aren’t followers of the Qun?"
Properly, they’re Tal’Vashoth. Again, since few would know what that means, they’d just be called Qunari (to their annoyance, but they’re likely used to it).

"But that’s confusing!"

No, it’s really not. It’s about as confusing as “Jewish”, and insisting on “kossith” because it’s mentioned in a few codex entries makes about as much sense as insisting someone of Jewish descent be referred to as either Ashke**** or Sephardim— as if that would be clearer for most people.

Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest. Kossith is simply an antiquated term that would be used by neither the Qunari nor the Tal’Vashoth and has never even been heard of by anyone else in Thedas, so it’s not apt to be used in-game anytime soon. Thus people insisting on its usage as “proper” when most people who’ve even played the game have never heard of it just makes me scratch my head. It’s bizarre, particularly on the odd occasion when someone schools another fan about it— like they’re just not educated enough to know they should be confused.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 20 août 2013 - 11:37 .

[Siona]

I think it's entirely possible for their to be kossith Wardens... but it's more than likely that they're extremely rare because they'd have to be Tal-Vashoth, who aren't abundant it seems, *and* to have been recruited *and* have survived the Ritual. Wardens are already such a small organization that they likelihood would be rare at best.

But it's not impossible!

[Palidane]

While a Tal-Vashoth may be able to take the Joining and become a Grey Warden, I'm not sure if a Qunari could. We don't have a lot of details, but we know the Grey Wardens swore themselves to the Orlesian Chantry during the Second Blight. Depending on the terms of that agreement, the Wardens might be contractually-obligated to oppose the Qunari.

[Spectre slayer]

Sigh it's Qunari not Kossith and everyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about, anyway yes it should be possible for a Qunari or Tal-Valshoth to be a grey warden.