52 réponses à ce sujet

[AustereLemur799]

o Ventus wrote...

AustereLemur799 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Yeah. Our Greek stories aren't recollections of true events.

Stopped reading there . I've got a degree on that subject. Still, I enjoyed the rest of your post.

Let me rephrase that.

The overwhelming majority of Greek stories aren't recollections of true events.

Unless you're seriously going to tell me that the universe [i[actually[/i] came about through the Earth (Gaia) and Uranus (Ouranos) having kinky force-of-nature sex (Gaia being Ouranos' mother, mind you) and birthing an entirely new species of still-magical deities.

Well, yes to the first: the overwhelming majority of Greek stories are actually real events. Menander coined Sitcom as we know it (I prefer Aristophanes myself ).

I'm sure that everyone here is familiar with the Oedipus Complex. It is actually one of the most mis-conceived stories of our time, too - which is a great shame. Everyone assumes that Oedipus set out to sleep with his mother; however, this is not the case. Neither mother nor son knew that they were related in any way. Oedipus also killed his father too, by complete accident.

Earth and Uranus originated from Titans and our understanding of them came much later. Of course the Greek deities were born from Titans.

All that aside; my original point is that we are still capable of what we view as 'atrocities'. The Greeks showcased them first in an effort to deter their citizens from committing the same crimes. The fact is that we all have imaginations and we can all imagine whatever we like; being civilised means that we don't act on what is considered 'uncivilised'.

But we have a lot of taboos, and still a lot of people today don't conform to our ideals of civilsation (there are still rapists and murderers present).

What I love about the asari, personally, is that they've taught me a lot about personal inhibitions with regards to sex and nudity. The reality is that we are squeamish with naked people; but, really; what is so wrong about it?

We think that our children should be sheltered from naked people and sex; even though that is the most natural thing in the world (prehistoric hominids didn't have the luxury of such inhibitions; so we've become more prudish as we've developed - what we call 'civilised').

[o Ventus]

AustereLemur799 wrote...

Well, yes to the first: the overwhelming majority of Greek stories are actually real events. Menander coined Sitcom as we know it (I prefer Aristophanes myself ).

Just off the top of my head:

Hercules (and all of his labors)
The birth of the gods
Medusa
Odysseus (the Odyssey, not the Illiad)
The birth of the Titans
Orpheus and Eurydice
Siege of Troy
Atlantis

Of all those, the Siege of Troy is the only one with speculative historical relevance. Arguably Atlantis, but almost all evidence towards that city existing is flimsy at best, scientifically impossible and outright stupid at worst.

I would like to point out that if any single one of these is historically accurate (again, except for the Siege of Troy), it would render every single non Greco-Roman religion objectively false.

Earth and Uranus originated from Titans and our understanding of them came much later. Of course the Greek deities were born from Titans.

Ouranos was spawned from Gaia. Gaia and Ouranos then spawned the Titans (though I don't remember which one came first).

[AustereLemur799]

o Ventus wrote...

AustereLemur799 wrote...

Well, yes to the first: the overwhelming majority of Greek stories are actually real events. Menander coined Sitcom as we know it (I prefer Aristophanes myself ).

Just off the top of my head:

Hercules (and all of his labors)
The birth of the gods
Medusa
Odysseus (the Odyssey, not the Illiad)
The birth of the Titans
Orpheus and Eurydice
Siege of Troy
Atlantis

Of all those, the Siege of Troy is the only one with speculative historical relevance. Arguably Atlantis, but almost all evidence towards that city existing is flimsy at best, scientifically impossible and outright stupid at worst.

I would like to point out that if any single one of these is historically accurate (again, except for the Siege of Troy), it would render every single non Greco-Roman religion objectively false.

Earth and Uranus originated from Titans and our understanding of them came much later. Of course the Greek deities were born from Titans.

Ouranos was spawned from Gaia. Gaia and Ouranos then spawned the Titans (though I don't remember which one came first).

I am impressed; you are the only person I've met who knows as much as that

I'm not gonna nit-pick since you're cool. All I'll say is that 'Hercules' is so Latin! Herakles is the original!

The birth of the gods came before Latin/Roman times.

The phrase 'out of the frying pan and into the melting pot' - or whatever it is (I forget, sorry!) is actually from Scylla and Charybdis (sea monster and whirlpool) whom Odysseus encountered in the Odyssey.

Orpheus and Eurydice is a classic! He sang a song to regain his beloved, but cursed it all when he looked back (despite being told not to!)

Also, Gaia, is actually 'Ge' where we get 'geology' from. 'Ge' also means 'Earth'

[o Ventus]

AustereLemur799 wrote...

I am impressed; you are the only person I've met who knows as much as that

And I only played the second God of War on the PS2.

[AustereLemur799]

o Ventus wrote...

AustereLemur799 wrote...

I am impressed; you are the only person I've met who knows as much as that

And I only played the second God of War on the PS2.

Then I am extra proud!  

Also you shouldn't listen to anything I have to say. I've had a few and am probably talking a load of drenn  (that said; I honestly did mean the good stuff I said).

[Han Shot First]

How come no one ever wonders if Garrus is compatible with Fem Shep? Just an observation that for some reason, whenever the issue comes about compatibility between humans and aliens, the discussion focuses on the Asari.

On second thought, maybe I ought to be grateful that there are no threads titled, "Does Garrus have a c-ck?"

Modifié par Han Shot First, 09 août 2013 - 06:42 .

[rashie]

Han Shot First wrote...

How come no one ever wonders if Garrus is compatible with Fem Shep? Just an observation that for some reason, whenever the issue comes about compatibility between humans and aliens, the discussion focuses on the Asari.

On second thought, maybe I ought to be grateful that there are no threads titled, "Does Garrus have a c-ck?"

Turians and humans have different biology, with body fluids and similar being toxic to each others, pretty much the reason for no such threads if im not mistaken. If you Romance Garrus in ME2 and speak to mordin he gives you sexual advice about this kind of stuff ( Hilarious moment in itself )

Modifié par rashie, 09 août 2013 - 09:22 .

[michaelkourlas]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction.

That's begging the question. Simply put, asari enjoying whatever black eye stuff it takes to make babies makes it more likely that asari will make babies. Was that so hard?

But that's my very point: sexual intercourse isn't necessary for asari reproduction, so they're no reason why asari should be capable of having sex, much less enjoying it.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

So how do Liara and Shepard have (regular) sex when Asari bodies aren't made for that?

If you think that Shepard and Liara are having "regular" sex then it's you making up stuff as no such thing is shown in the game. A love scene is implied, but no details as to what such a scene entails are ever given.

True. I had always assumed it involved penetrative sex, but it's entirely possible that it does not.

With that in mind, it's interesting to consider the fact that any human that marries an asari will effectively remain celebate for the duration of the marriage.

[HellbirdIV]

michaelkourlas wrote...

But that's my very point: sexual intercourse isn't necessary for asari reproduction, so they're no reason why asari should be capable of having sex, much less enjoying it.

Evolution is not a narrow path of bolting necessary traits to a species, however - you don't really have to look any further than "Human males have nipples" to see that.

michaelkourlas wrote...

True. I had always assumed it involved penetrative sex, but it's entirely possible that it does not.

Asari do have vaginas similar (very similar) to human females, as Bioware saw fit to demonstrate to us with the Reaper Banshee. Penetrative sex is perfectly possible for asari.

As for wether or not that would be pleasurable, I imagine it's something like touching any part of your lover during sex besides their genitals; Still pleasant, but not strictly erotic. The asari's pleasure comes primarily from the Joining. Basically, it is not a mutual exchange, but a multitude of factors.

[rashie]

I always assumed Asari actually had the ability to do penetrative sex due to this line by Liara on Virmire ( ME1 ). If its not reffering to her having sand in her, well you know the word, then what is it? I know the line itself is meant as a joke but it does hint at it if you ignore the humorous part.

I do not know which is worse: the geth, or all this sand in my .. never mind.

Modifié par rashie, 09 août 2013 - 10:21 .

[HellbirdIV]

Speaking of geth, that reminds me;

Asari meld (both for pleasure and reproduction) by joining with another's nervous system.

Krogan do not have nervous systems, but a limbatic system of electroconductive fluid. Asari can still meld and have babies with krogan.

Does that mean asari can meld with anything that has an electrical circulation system? ... Like geth?

And you thought having an asari, vorcha or krogan father was embarassing...

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 09 août 2013 - 10:24 .

[rashie]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Speaking of geth, that reminds me;

Asari meld (both for pleasure and reproduction) by joining with another's nervous system.

Krogan do not have nervous systems, but a limbatic system of electroconductive fluid. Asari can still meld and have babies with krogan.

Does that mean asari can meld with anything that has an electrical circulation system? ... Like geth?

And you thought having an asari, vorcha or krogan father was embarassing...

I suppose they could meld with a machine but having a baby would be downright impossible since it still requires their mating partner to have some form of DNA, and when it comes to the geth, well...

[michaelkourlas]

HellbirdIV wrote...

michaelkourlas wrote...

But that's my very point: sexual intercourse isn't necessary for asari reproduction, so they're no reason why asari should be capable of having sex, much less enjoying it.

Evolution is not a narrow path of bolting necessary traits to a species, however - you don't really have to look any further than "Human males have nipples" to see that.

That's true, but I don't think you can equate the two. The whole sexual response cycle is rather more complex than a couple of nipples.

HellbirdIV wrote...

michaelkourlas wrote...

True. I had always assumed it involved penetrative sex, but it's entirely possible that it does not.

Asari do have vaginas similar (very similar) to human females, as Bioware saw fit to demonstrate to us with the Reaper Banshee. Penetrative sex is perfectly possible for asari.

As for wether or not that would be pleasurable, I imagine it's something like touching any part of your lover during sex besides their genitals; Still pleasant, but not strictly erotic. The asari's pleasure comes primarily from the Joining. Basically, it is not a mutual exchange, but a multitude of factors.

I like that explanation. I'll be using that for my headcanon.

[Han Shot First]

michaelkourlas wrote...

True. I had always assumed it involved penetrative sex, but it's entirely possible that it does not.

With that in mind, it's interesting to consider the fact that any human that marries an asari will effectively remain celebate for the duration of the marriage.

The Asari are equipped for it. I'll spare you the horror and not post an up close shot of a Banshee, but they have vaginas.

Both the books and the games also suggest penetrative sex. Shepard's love scenes with Liara or the Consort both show them in positions that would be familiar to any human. If nothing but a mind meld was involved no physical activity would be required, just as Shepard has a vision of being either embraced or kissed by Liara in her farewell mind meld, despite both characters standing completely still. Aethyta can also also make a crude reference to sex, by asking Liara how many times she popped Shepard's thermal clip.  In the books the character Grayson is left sweating and out of breath after a romp with his Asari lover, Lyselle. Either that was meant to suggest physical sexual activity, or Grayson also has a habit of doing calisthenics after an encounter with Lyselle. The former seems a lot more likely.

[AlexMBrennan]

Technically that could be a Reaper modification e.g. for the purpose of psychological warfare.

Shepard's love scenes with Liara or the Consort both show them in positions that would be familiar to any human

FemShep gets the same scene, so what would you conclude about femShep's anatomy?

Aethyta can also also make a crude reference to sex, by asking Liara how many times she popped Shepard's thermal clip

Which could refer to anything from mutual masturbation to god knows what.

[Han Shot First]

Technically that could be a Reaper modification e.g. for the purpose of psychological warfare.

In what way would a vagina be a form of psychological warfare?

That would also seem to be a lot of effort by the Reapers for little gain. If you appy Occam's razor that the simplest hypothesis is likely to be the correct one, then it is more likely that the Ardat-Yakshi were equipped with the same anatomy.

FemShep gets the same scene, so what would you conclude about femShep's anatomy?

In the farewell scene with Liara, Shepard has a vision of either being embraced or kissed by Liara, despite neither character having actually moved an inch. That scene demonstrates that no physical activity is required for the effects of the mind meld to occur. That in turn suggests that the scenes that depict physical sexual activity can be taken at face value, since an experience that was solely a mind meld would not require characters to go through the motions of pretending or posing themselves in sexual positions.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 09 août 2013 - 06:27 .

[AlexMBrennan]

In what way would a vagina be a form of psychological warfare?

Banshee pictures on the extranet to drive soldiers to suicide.

Occam's razor does not apply since I never claimed this explanation was lightly, just technically possible.

That scene demonstrates that no physical activity is required for the effects of the mind meld to occur.

Which is a different kind of meld altogether.

That in turn suggests that the scenes that depict physical sexual activity can be taken at face value

So you would, in fact, conclude that women will have a pen!s in the future since femShep and manShep get the same scenes?

At the end of the day, there's always the possibility that the asari do things they might not inherently enjoy because their partners enjoy them.

[Han Shot First]

Which is a different kind of meld altogether.

Indeed it is, but it does prove that no actual physical activity is required for the particpants to experience something that feels like physical activity in the meld. The kiss or that embrace doesn't actually happen, but it feels real to Liara and Shepard.

So you would, in fact, conclude that women will have a pen!s in the future since femShep and manShep get the same scenes?

Unnecessary snark, and a strawman to boot. I hate to be the one to point this out, but it is possible for two women to engage in penetrative sex, thanks to certain manufactured aids.

At any rate I'm not going to speculate as to whether that is what is going on in those cutscenes, but Liara and Fem Shep are engaged in some form of physical activity, regardless of whether or not that involves penetration.

At the end of the day, there's always the possibility that the asari do things they might not inherently enjoy because their partners enjoy them

I'm sure that is true, as it is often the case with many things that humans do with their partners.

Since the farewell scene demonstrates that no physical activity is actually required to experience something that feels like it during the meld, there would be no need for Liara however to play make pretend if it was impossible for Male Shep to penetrate her. After all, what would Shepard get out of simply posing in those positions?

The more likely explanation is that in addition to the meld, they were also engaging in penetrative sex.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 09 août 2013 - 08:14 .

[Cornughon]

Han Shot First wrote...

Unnecessary snark, and a strawman to boot. I hate to be the one to point this out, but it is possible for two women to engage in penetrative sex, thanks to certain manufactured aids.

At any rate I'm not going to speculate as to whether that is what is going on in those cutscenes, but Liara and Fem Shep are engaged in some form of physical activity, regardless of whether or not that involves penetration.

Exactly, we don't know what femshep keeps in her nightstand. And otherwise she can always borrow Sam's, which is probably a fancy model generating tiny mass effect fields to...

Uh what?

Modifié par Cornughon, 10 août 2013 - 05:28 .

[KieranW]

Right, just to point out here that there babies must come out somewhere. That implies, to put it crudely, that there is somewhere to 'put it'. In fact, Liara even refers to this in LotSB DLC. The slang term for that particular region of an Asari is 'azure'.

The question is whether putting the plug in the socket causes pleasure for them, as they reproduce in an entirely different way.

[HellbirdIV]

KieranW wrote...

The question is whether putting the plug in the socket causes pleasure for them, as they reproduce in an entirely different way.

Most likely it is pleasant akin to ordinary skin contact, but not at all in the same way as it would be for a human woman.

That said, it is culturally significant enough to have euphemisms for it in asari language. It might be sensetive as a hold-over from an earlier "stage" in their evolution, or it may play some part in asari mating that is different to our sexual reproduction.

Of course the official answer would be "They feel pleasure down there because that's how they were written".

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 10 août 2013 - 07:34 .

[Catastrophy]

Maybe they just mimick having pleasure when having sex to comfort the alien mating partner. They are aliens after all - why should they have a human set of behaviour or emotions?

[wildkeny]

rashie wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

Speaking of geth, that reminds me;

Asari meld (both for pleasure and reproduction) by joining with another's nervous system.

Krogan do not have nervous systems, but a limbatic system of electroconductive fluid. Asari can still meld and have babies with krogan.

Does that mean asari can meld with anything that has an electrical circulation system? ... Like geth?

And you thought having an asari, vorcha or krogan father was embarassing...

I suppose they could meld with a machine but having a baby would be downright impossible since it still requires their mating partner to have some form of DNA, and when it comes to the geth, well...

In fact, the odds of an alien organic being having DNA is close to zero. DNA is not even esstential for Earth life forms (HIV uses RNA for example, and bacteria use different nucleobase than multi-cellular species). Their body may be even not carbon based like us, could be silicon based compounds... Even if they do use nucleotides like Earth lifes, it could very likely be different than the 4 nucleobases (aka: guanine, adenine, thymine, and cytosine) in our bodies...

[The Twilight God]

The baby comes out of somewhere...

Sexual pleasure isn't required for human procreation, but it is what fuels the process in nature. Liara may not experience vagina stimulation like a human female, but she probably enjoys to closeness and whatnot. And in every sex scene doesn't she do the dark eye thing indicating some mind meld element to the sex?