Eh Scorpion's ability in Mortal Kombat is commonly called the harpoon move, even if it's actually a kunai on a rope. It's the same sort of thing. Not sure how combat viable that sort of skill would be in real life vs shielded opponents, but it's a cool mechanic if you ask me. Not overly concerned with 100% combat realism here.Chanda wrote...
I think when Josh said "harpoon", he should have used a different term. It was a hook on the end of a chain that he could throw and use to pull on his enemy with. Grappling hook may have been a better term for it, unless there's an actual weapon name for such a thing.
Edit: Nevermind. Josh said the ability was actually called "harpoon". Maybe they'll change the name of the ability, because it seems to give off the impression of whale hunting, rather than pulling an enemy off balance with a hook and chain.
Gameinformer's Month of DA: I Coverage(Final Update 9/3/13)
Débuté par
LPPrince
, août 09 2013 03:41
#951
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Posté 17 août 2013 - 08:16
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#952
Posté 17 août 2013 - 10:14
EnoughLetters
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I fail to see how a harpoon-type ability is more over the top than magic flames engulfing walls, but I'm probably not understanding something.
I am liking what I see, though I'm hoping they'll demonstrate the party-tactics aspect sometime soon. I'm curious as to how they'll make it work, if they can make it work.
I am liking what I see, though I'm hoping they'll demonstrate the party-tactics aspect sometime soon. I'm curious as to how they'll make it work, if they can make it work.
Modifié par EnoughLetters, 17 août 2013 - 10:47 .
#953
Posté 17 août 2013 - 11:01
cindercatz
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Ericander77 wrote...
cindercatz wrote...
By scribe, do you guys mean the one from the survey that looks like she's painting? I hope she makes it. I'd like a painter in the party.
Inquisitor: "Get ready, here comes some darkspawn!"
Painter girl: "I'm ready sir! Wait... can you move a little to the left? Ah, perfect! I'll make sure to capture your likeness perfectly as you battle darkspawn"
Inquisitor: "Why do I bring you along again?"
I have to admit that's funny. 
But if she's a visual artist, she's got an eye for detail. So I expect she's a highly precise rogue in combat.
#954
Posté 17 août 2013 - 11:43
blod007
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The Army use grappling hooks now, the romans used them to board boats.
I'm thinking of other uses, not just combat, a grappling hook could:
Pull down a loose wall or start a landslide, pull down a gate.
Get people out of sinking sand or out of a swamp
Pull large enemies down, maybe onto traps
Be thrown and dragged through trip wires or traps detonating them
used as a trip wire when thrown across a path prior to ambush.
I'll wait until more info arrives before making a random comment.
I'm thinking of other uses, not just combat, a grappling hook could:
Pull down a loose wall or start a landslide, pull down a gate.
Get people out of sinking sand or out of a swamp
Pull large enemies down, maybe onto traps
Be thrown and dragged through trip wires or traps detonating them
used as a trip wire when thrown across a path prior to ambush.
I'll wait until more info arrives before making a random comment.
#955
Posté 17 août 2013 - 12:47
golak
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I dig/enjoy the combat I'm seeing and I agree the "Grapple Hook" the warrior has seems a bit....off it's more of a rogue ability if you ask me, but I guess it can be getting used to.
This Gameinformer DA: I coverage is really good. Keep 'em coming.
This Gameinformer DA: I coverage is really good. Keep 'em coming.
#956
Posté 17 août 2013 - 01:42
cindercatz
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Ok, after watching the video, I'm a little worried they're maybe taking a little bit too heavy an influence from ME3. I like the combined arms AI tactics and all that, a lot, but I'm hoping, for instance, that the shield enemy isn't such a clone of the Cerberus shield type enemy, basically reduced to a slow moving barrier. I want to see more variety (out of that one enemy type) than heavy tower shields and the slow advance thing. Shield baring enemies should be more versatile, just like a shield user in the party, and there should be abilities other than grapple, or harpoon, whatever they want to call it, to counter and preferably disarm them from head on. I do not want to get into a situation where I'm constantly trying to flank shields rather than countering them directly. He is better animated, though.
I like the grapple ability, and I agree it's a better idea to treat it as a grappling hook rather than a harpoon, though throwing spears through shields is an actual thing. That's not really what we're seeing here, but I would like to see that as a long cooldown, permanent shield disarming move, as another way to counter shield baring enemies. I'd rather see more disarms than stuns, because if I'm chopping away at a guys head, I prefer it to just come off or the guy to fall right there rather than it be a stun window.
The dodge roll. Hm. I would rather not see too much rolling around, but I don't mind it as a cooldown ability meant to get out of, say, being flanked by three enemies etc. That's the way I use the rogue dodge in DA2. It would definitely be an improvement from the damage soak ability warriors have in DA2. What I really want to see is auto-dodge and parry like KoTOR (and DA:O to some extent), but having a few movement abilities on cooldowns to get out of a tough spot a little quicker on occasion is good, better if every weapon set has it's own animation and all that. Not a bunch of rolling around.
My big concern if it is an active dodge roll, please god no, is that we're going to get into a dodge and attack, action based system that kills what I like about DA combat, which is higher level tactics and group and battlefield management. I love auto-attack, because it lets me focus all my attention on the areas of gameplay that I really like, and not on twitch combat, which I find absolutely boring. That kind of combat is the single solitary reason I haven't played very far into Witcher 2. It's also the only reason I never bought KoA:Reckoning, after playing the demo a few hours. I find that style of combat system very, very boring, and wearing on my hands.
Of the similarish ARPGs out there, Dragon's Dogma is the only one I enjoy, and that's because I'm constantly adjusting and setting up combination moves with my pawns, and because enemies die very quickly (aside from giant enemies, which is a whole different thing). I don't enjoy that as much as DA:O's party management though. I still haven't completed a DD playthrough, and I've owned it since it came out. So there are things to take from it, but I don't want DA emulating it too much.
Also, I still hope to see more involved, contextual basic combat animation (less whaling away to a little bloodspray and stun, more like the fluidly synched animation from the Arkham games, AC, or the original KoTORs) and finishing kill animations, even if it's not likely this time. Nobody's really talking about either that I've noticed.
In sum, I love what they're describing with a lot of emphasis on enemy variety and group tactics (real time and p&p), but I don't want to play DA as an ARPG, and if it does go in that direction, it will at least dampen my enjoyment and enthusiasm for what the combat's going to be. I don't know that that's necessarily where they're going just from watching that video, and I'm at least enthusiastic for the other kinds of things they're aiming for. I like the enthusiasm coming from the team, but I don't really know what to think about this yet. We'll see eventually. :-)
I like the grapple ability, and I agree it's a better idea to treat it as a grappling hook rather than a harpoon, though throwing spears through shields is an actual thing. That's not really what we're seeing here, but I would like to see that as a long cooldown, permanent shield disarming move, as another way to counter shield baring enemies. I'd rather see more disarms than stuns, because if I'm chopping away at a guys head, I prefer it to just come off or the guy to fall right there rather than it be a stun window.
The dodge roll. Hm. I would rather not see too much rolling around, but I don't mind it as a cooldown ability meant to get out of, say, being flanked by three enemies etc. That's the way I use the rogue dodge in DA2. It would definitely be an improvement from the damage soak ability warriors have in DA2. What I really want to see is auto-dodge and parry like KoTOR (and DA:O to some extent), but having a few movement abilities on cooldowns to get out of a tough spot a little quicker on occasion is good, better if every weapon set has it's own animation and all that. Not a bunch of rolling around.
My big concern if it is an active dodge roll, please god no, is that we're going to get into a dodge and attack, action based system that kills what I like about DA combat, which is higher level tactics and group and battlefield management. I love auto-attack, because it lets me focus all my attention on the areas of gameplay that I really like, and not on twitch combat, which I find absolutely boring. That kind of combat is the single solitary reason I haven't played very far into Witcher 2. It's also the only reason I never bought KoA:Reckoning, after playing the demo a few hours. I find that style of combat system very, very boring, and wearing on my hands.
Of the similarish ARPGs out there, Dragon's Dogma is the only one I enjoy, and that's because I'm constantly adjusting and setting up combination moves with my pawns, and because enemies die very quickly (aside from giant enemies, which is a whole different thing). I don't enjoy that as much as DA:O's party management though. I still haven't completed a DD playthrough, and I've owned it since it came out. So there are things to take from it, but I don't want DA emulating it too much.
Also, I still hope to see more involved, contextual basic combat animation (less whaling away to a little bloodspray and stun, more like the fluidly synched animation from the Arkham games, AC, or the original KoTORs) and finishing kill animations, even if it's not likely this time. Nobody's really talking about either that I've noticed.
In sum, I love what they're describing with a lot of emphasis on enemy variety and group tactics (real time and p&p), but I don't want to play DA as an ARPG, and if it does go in that direction, it will at least dampen my enjoyment and enthusiasm for what the combat's going to be. I don't know that that's necessarily where they're going just from watching that video, and I'm at least enthusiastic for the other kinds of things they're aiming for. I like the enthusiasm coming from the team, but I don't really know what to think about this yet. We'll see eventually. :-)
Modifié par cindercatz, 17 août 2013 - 01:46 .
#957
Posté 17 août 2013 - 01:44
Druk-Qs
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I have very mixed thoughts about the new footage.
I don't think it looks bad, but for all the talk they made about strategy and tactics... I didn't see any of that, and it doesn't really look like DA, but then, they were playing it in a console version, which isn't the version I'll be getting anyway.
A lot of things will change, I know, almost every game changes in some way or another with a little time (Look at The Witcher 2's e3 2010 footage and then see how it actually is, less than a year that it was shown there... Almost completely different), but I'm having very mixed thoughts about the combat thus far.
I don't think it looks bad, but for all the talk they made about strategy and tactics... I didn't see any of that, and it doesn't really look like DA, but then, they were playing it in a console version, which isn't the version I'll be getting anyway.
A lot of things will change, I know, almost every game changes in some way or another with a little time (Look at The Witcher 2's e3 2010 footage and then see how it actually is, less than a year that it was shown there... Almost completely different), but I'm having very mixed thoughts about the combat thus far.
#958
Posté 17 août 2013 - 02:31
What a Succulent Ass
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It's not about strategy or tactics. It's about survival.One_Sunny_Place wrote...
I don't think it looks bad, but for all the talk they made about strategy and tactics... I didn't see any of that
#959
Posté 17 août 2013 - 02:36
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I don't think this has been talked about much yet, but some of the abilities we're seeing could have some big implications for gameplay and tactics.
1. The Harpoon Ability (not sure if that's the actual name). It could be used to pull elusive enemies into advantageous positions, either for the Warrior or their companions to strike (like a rogue-like enemy flitting about the battlefield). It can also (obviously) pull a shield down for a few moments, exposing an otherwise protected foe to attacks (and anybody who has fought those genlock alphas in Legacy knows how useful that could be). It could also be used defensively to pull a bruiser away from a dying mage, buying time for healing.
2. Vivienne's Wall of Fire (EEEE!!!!). This is significant in that it's an environmentally targeted AoE, so tactical positioning of the wall could damage enemies before they even get to the party's warriors and rogues. Vivienne appears to have Glyph of Paralysis in the video, and using the glyph in conjunction with the wall could lead to some helplessly scorched enemies. If you have multiple mages with that ability, alone, you could stack them to damage enemies that pursue you (or simply move the wrong way).
I just thought it was worth a mention.
1. The Harpoon Ability (not sure if that's the actual name). It could be used to pull elusive enemies into advantageous positions, either for the Warrior or their companions to strike (like a rogue-like enemy flitting about the battlefield). It can also (obviously) pull a shield down for a few moments, exposing an otherwise protected foe to attacks (and anybody who has fought those genlock alphas in Legacy knows how useful that could be). It could also be used defensively to pull a bruiser away from a dying mage, buying time for healing.
2. Vivienne's Wall of Fire (EEEE!!!!). This is significant in that it's an environmentally targeted AoE, so tactical positioning of the wall could damage enemies before they even get to the party's warriors and rogues. Vivienne appears to have Glyph of Paralysis in the video, and using the glyph in conjunction with the wall could lead to some helplessly scorched enemies. If you have multiple mages with that ability, alone, you could stack them to damage enemies that pursue you (or simply move the wrong way).
I just thought it was worth a mention.
#960
Posté 17 août 2013 - 03:37
Azaron Nightblade
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Chanda wrote...
apple_sauced wrote...
cJohnOne wrote...
hmmm.. I don't like the harpoon. It just doesn't belong in a Dragon Age game. I think it's a really bad idea and an unnecessary mechanic.
On a different subject I think dodge should be a die roll like a Table Top game.
These things could potentially kill the gameplay for me. It could make me play in storymode.
I agree the harpoon seems stupid. Why can't we just use Shield Bash to disorient people, and Taunt to make them move closer?
How do you shield bash someone who has a giant shield in front of them? And if you taunt someone closer, they're still going to have a giant shield in the way of your weapon. If you use something like a grappling hook or "harpoon" to pull them off balance towards you, it's going to make them drop their shield, because that's where most of their weight is. It actually makes sense.
Agreed.
I also find it pretty entertaining to see people raging about how "unrealistic" the harpoon is, and then saying taunt is so much better.
Apparently flinging some insult at a creature that probably doesn't even understand you, or at some highly disciplined warrior so that he magically forgets he should be taking down the mage, is a much better solution.
I just figured the harpoon either "hooks" behind the edge of the shield and then gets yanked back to unbalance the enemy, or it gets thrown with such force that it actually sinks into the shield and then gets yanked (after all most shields are made of wood).
#961
Posté 17 août 2013 - 05:49
Druk-Qs
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Random Jerkface wrote...
It's not about strategy or tactics. It's about survival.One_Sunny_Place wrote...
I don't think it looks bad, but for all the talk they made about strategy and tactics... I didn't see any of that
Touche
#962
Posté 17 août 2013 - 06:20
ArenCordial
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Chanda wrote...
How do you shield bash someone who has a giant shield in front of them? And if you taunt someone closer, they're still going to have a giant shield in the way of your weapon. If you use something like a grappling hook or "harpoon" to pull them off balance towards you, it's going to make them drop their shield, because that's where most of their weight is. It actually makes sense.
You bash their shield with your shield to get it out of the way.
Look around 5:50.
Shield and Shield fighting was more about getting angles and leverage on your opponent. Side steps, controlled movements, and edge on flat techniques.
Throwing a grappling hook at them in combat would be beyond stupid. First if to was a metal shield it wouldn't work as you have nothing to really hook into because it would most likely bounce off the shield. Second think about the amount of strength required to rip off a shield bound around the forearm.
If you were going to use something on a long chain, you might as well just try and hit their head to disorient them or deal some real damage it its bludegeoning and they are wearing a helmet..
Modifié par ArenCordial, 17 août 2013 - 06:28 .
#963
Guest_Rubios_*
Posté 17 août 2013 - 06:42
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Seems like they're trying to blend DA2 with Demon/Dark Souls...
I'm very excited.
I'm very excited.
Modifié par Rubios, 17 août 2013 - 06:43 .
#965
Posté 17 août 2013 - 07:26
ReallyRue
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Hoooboy, we can play as elves and dwarves after all? All the feels! I thought it was confirmed we couldn't!
I'm liking Varric and Cassandra for the party, and this Vivenne, good to see at least one brand new person.
I'm liking Varric and Cassandra for the party, and this Vivenne, good to see at least one brand new person.
#966
Posté 17 août 2013 - 07:32
ZodiacLullaby
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I'm psyched for Monday too! So much info this month. I hope we get more info on the other companions. Like Sera, fancy facial hair guy, male elf fist on chin guy (maybe Dorian the magister) and others. Can't wait!
#967
Posté 17 août 2013 - 07:39
Dutchess
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The green enemy with the two daggers reminds me of an enemy type in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within.
And Vivienne and the warrior dude looked like they were stomping around.
The walking animation is silly at the moment.
I don't have much of an opinion on the combat yet. Too early to tell, but I am wondering how real-time dodging and slashing would work in a party-based context.
And Vivienne and the warrior dude looked like they were stomping around.
The walking animation is silly at the moment. I don't have much of an opinion on the combat yet. Too early to tell, but I am wondering how real-time dodging and slashing would work in a party-based context.
Modifié par renjility, 17 août 2013 - 07:39 .
#968
Posté 18 août 2013 - 02:01
TheRealJayDee
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Random Jerkface wrote...
It's not about strategy or tactics. It's about survival.One_Sunny_Place wrote...
I don't think it looks bad, but for all the talk they made about strategy and tactics... I didn't see any of that
#969
Posté 18 août 2013 - 03:16
Paul E Dangerously
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I really hope we're not pidgeonholed into the typical MMO roles this time, especially in terms of weapons. Let my warriors and rogues wield whatever they like provided they meet the stat requirements. Having my Dex warriors and brawling rogues back from DAO would be golden.
Modifié par Sopa de Gato, 18 août 2013 - 03:17 .
#970
Posté 18 août 2013 - 04:15
MisterJB
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In "World of Thedas" page 87 there is an image of this enemy. He is in the section pertaining to Tevinter and you can see that he is wearing a sigil that represents Tevinter.
I'm having trouble googling that image to post but I assume this means Tevinter will be an enemy.
#971
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Posté 18 août 2013 - 04:19
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Looks like some kind of slave warrior who they couldn't be bothered to properly armor, so they just give him a giant plank to make himself a living wall. I like it.
#972
Posté 18 août 2013 - 04:20
Kangaxx628
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Not super enthusiastic about all the pre-alpha play through done with console controllers. Gives the impression that PC game play will be an after thought and the limitations of the console will hinder quality game play. I smell EA's influence on console first/PC second design.
#973
Posté 18 août 2013 - 06:13
BioFan (Official)
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MisterJB wrote...
In "World of Thedas" page 87 there is an image of this enemy. He is in the section pertaining to Tevinter and you can see that he is wearing a sigil that represents Tevinter.
I'm having trouble googling that image to post but I assume this means Tevinter will be an enemy.
He's a fog warrior
#974
Posté 18 août 2013 - 07:16
Solmanian
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So, did anybody managed to make out something from the "exploration skills"? The picture was to blurry on my computer.
#975
Posté 18 août 2013 - 07:23
Reznore57
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Ericander77 wrote...
MisterJB wrote...
In "World of Thedas" page 87 there is an image of this enemy. He is in the section pertaining to Tevinter and you can see that he is wearing a sigil that represents Tevinter.
I'm having trouble googling that image to post but I assume this means Tevinter will be an enemy.
He's a fog warrior
I don't think he's a fog warrior .He wore the Tevinter symbol on his tablecloth underwear .
From World of Thedas the look , and the name gladiator , I assume they are Tevinter slave trained to fight .
The fact that they are half naked could mean they are only used for entertainment value .
Or Tevinter warrior are suicidal .
