1913 réponses à ce sujet

[RepHope]

^Do you believe the Andrasteans? If yes than than what about all the other teachings of the Chantry (Makers love, promise of redemption if the chant is sung, etc)? If no then again what has he done?

Sry if I take a while typing this from my phone

[fchopin]

Predictable news so far, disappointed and hope we get better news.
I don't like being bored.

[Sol Downer]

fchopin wrote...

Predictable news so far, disappointed and hope we get better news.
I don't like being bored.

...Me?

[esper]

RepHope wrote...

^ what are you talking about? What has the maker done exactly?

According to his own faith:

1. Create the spirits, throw their world away because it basically bored him. Keep in mind that in according to the chantry the spirits are virtues. This means that the virtues bored him. Further supported by the fact the chantry think demons are spirits that emulate vices to be more humanlike and return to the Makers favour.

2. Create the real world, and then curse everybody in the world with the because six people step into his house. Yes, I know it is a tale about human hubris, but he purposely created that hubris (and other vices) because apperently the world was not good enough without them. That makes it not all right to get angry when we act according to those vices.

3. After cursing the whole world for those sins of six humans, he then go sit in a corner and sulks about it.

4. Then he hears a human woman singing and support her campaing, and basically make her his wife despite the fact that she is married. (Adultary, yeah). Then he gets suprised that her first husband feels he can't measure up and betrays said wife. She gets burned and the Maker decides to throw a new sulking tantrum, luckily because last time he got mad the whole world paid for it, in the process once more forgetting that he wanted us to have those vices.

5. He is still in that sulking tantrum and it would be a damn good thing if he stays because who knows what he comes up with if he was real and got mad again.

[esper]

Aolbain wrote...

esper wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

esper wrote...

Which is why I really, really hope we are not going to make a Jedi-like organisation.

The properly just meant the "big, powerful and legendary organization" thing. Not "black and white but suprisingly  questionable morality".

I really hope that. I mean, if we do get to influence how the Inqusition operates I would not make a goody, goody hero group. (That's boring), but the Jedi were... well... really not what I look up to.

It takes a lot of balls to proclaim yourself Protector Of Fredoom, Justice And Goodguy-ness when you employ a slave army.

[RepHope]

Ultimashade wrote...

RepHope wrote...

That was the ashes that cured Eamon and Oghren is the only one who suggests lyrium. What's this about the Maker being malevolent? As far as I know the worst thing he's done is say screw this I'm outta here. 

Oghren is the only one that can sense the lyrium. Further, as stated, it is very likely that said lyrium imbued the ashes with healing properties. Haven't you ever touched plain old lyrium in any one of your DA:O playthroughs? If you're dying, it'll pick you right up. It's not just in the Fade either.

Yeah I have but do you see ant lyrium in the ruins? What about the guardian since when does lyrium grant longevity? Btw doesn't the codex state that raw lyrium will kill you if you touch it without being trained? And why doesn't magic cure the ark but this"lyrium" does?
Note: I don't actually think the Chantrys version is how everything turned out but I do think that there is evidence that something larger is at work here.

[Sol Downer]

EntropicAngel wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Arl Eamon?

No. That's the ashes.

Oghren hypothesizes that it's the lyrium that causes the healing effect, but that's only to counter the idea of Andraste's ashes themselves being healing. He doesn't have any actual data to back up his claim.

Neither do we have actual data to prove that it wasn't.

[Mr.House]

Are people still arguing about Leliana, who dies in a place where the veil is so thin with spirits, a figure who can see the past of a person, something that can heal people from death and other very strange things?

[esper]

RepHope wrote...

^Do you believe the Andrasteans? If yes than than what about all the other teachings of the Chantry (Makers love, promise of redemption if the chant is sung, etc)? If no then again what has he done?

Sry if I take a while typing this from my phone

No, I do not. But that is not really relevant as I want faith to be a matter of faith Thedas.

As the maker is described by the official chantry (Not Leliana's heritical version), the Maker's relentionship is basically the abusive kind of love, in which case the world is better off without it, just as it is better off without his forgiveness.

[KnightXE]

reading the new article about the rivalry makes me really want a Divine/Spirit/Paladin type spec for warriors, or a battlemage spec for mages, that's separate from the Templars.

so far in the DA games, the Templar is the closest thing to a paladin type warrior, but I don't really want to be a Templar in DAI.

I like the concept of a Divine/Holy warrior serving the Chantry to bring about peace.

[Sol Downer]

RepHope wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

RepHope wrote...

That was the ashes that cured Eamon and Oghren is the only one who suggests lyrium. What's this about the Maker being malevolent? As far as I know the worst thing he's done is say screw this I'm outta here. 

Oghren is the only one that can sense the lyrium. Further, as stated, it is very likely that said lyrium imbued the ashes with healing properties. Haven't you ever touched plain old lyrium in any one of your DA:O playthroughs? If you're dying, it'll pick you right up. It's not just in the Fade either.

Yeah I have but do you see ant lyrium in the ruins? What about the guardian since when does lyrium grant longevity? Btw doesn't the codex state that raw lyrium will kill you if you touch it without being trained? And why doesn't magic cure the ark but this"lyrium" does?
Note: I don't actually think the Chantrys version is how everything turned out but I do think that there is evidence that something larger is at work here.

I'm just guessing here, but since I didn't die I don't think I'd die. Further, if it could heal injuries, don't you think it could also grant a longer life? There's no way to prove either the ashes or lyrium healed the Arl, but I'm guessing it was lyrium since messing with it in raw form didn't kill me. Of course, I'm simply guessing at this point.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Thank*

You can edit your posts, you know. It's up there right next to the "quote" link on your post.

Yeah but it doesn't work properly on my phone.

Also, I read what EA said about gamescom and there was no mention of DAI, not on the show floor at least.

[Sol Downer]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

Neither do we have actual data to prove that it wasn't.

That's true. But the fact that there is no data to prove it, and the fact that this has never occured before, makes me think that it is not likely.

Fair enough. You probably guessed by now, but I'm just speculating.

[thats1evildude]

esper wrote...

1. Create the spirits, throw their world away because it basically bored him. Keep in mind that in according to the chantry the spirits are virtues. This means that the virtues bored him. Further supported by the fact the chantry think demons are spirits that emulate vices to be more humanlike and return to the Makers favour.

"Throw their world away"? I'm not sure what you mean there. And I don't think the Chantry holds up "spirits" as virtuous; they regard all spirits as dangerous, but luckily they only have to worry about the demonic ones.

[Mr.House]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

Neither do we have actual data to prove that it wasn't.

That's true. But the fact that there is no data to prove it, and the fact that this has never occured before, makes me think that it is not likely.

*see's a patch of lyruim in the deep roads, clicks it. All healed up*

[esper]

thats1evildude wrote...

esper wrote...

1. Create the spirits, throw their world away because it basically bored him. Keep in mind that in according to the chantry the spirits are virtues. This means that the virtues bored him. Further supported by the fact the chantry think demons are spirits that emulate vices to be more humanlike and return to the Makers favour.

"Throw their world away"? I'm not sure what you mean there. And I don't think the Chantry holds up "spirits" as virtuous; they regard all spirits as dangerous, but luckily they only have to worry about the demonic ones.

No, they Fade think spirits are virtues. It is an integral part of the Andrastian faith. It is the dalish that has the The inhabitents of the beyond = dangerous.

And according the Chantry lore, the Fade is an incompletely world that the Maker created for his 'first children' the spirits. It is incomplete because he abandonded it in favour of  Thedas.

Modifié par esper, 19 août 2013 - 09:27 .

[RepHope]

@esper sorry my phones a pain to type on. If I recall correctly The Maker didn't disown them because they were boring he disowned them because they just stood there. Remember the spirits learned vices AND virtues from mortals there were no "good" spirits or "bad" ones because there were no mortals to dream about virtues or vices.

Also the chantry doesn't think the demons emulate vices to be more human like. In fact demons think that the vices are what makes mortals unworthy of the maker according to the chantry. The maker chucking them out was probably just him sending mortals a message: Don't mess with me and mine. I agree that he should do something about the blights but I suppose one could view the Wardens as tools of the Maker.

As for the rest yeah that's pretty bad but it doesn't make him evil. It makes him indifferent. He doesn't wish harm on us he just doesn't care anymore and if we all die oh well. I think he's a bit of jerk but not evil.

[Wulfram]

Mr.House wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

Neither do we have actual data to prove that it wasn't.

That's true. But the fact that there is no data to prove it, and the fact that this has never occured before, makes me think that it is not likely.

*see's a patch of lyruim in the deep roads, clicks it. All healed up*

I don't think Mr Gaider approved of that mechanic

http://social.biowar...453627/1#463285

David Gaider wrote...

Viglin wrote...
What about the Lyrium Veins you use in the battle at the Anvil of the Void...or is that not raw or enough?

*bangs head against desk repeatedly*

Space lyrium. It's my only explanation for THAT stuff. 

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 août 2013 - 09:39 .

[Nerevar-as]

esper wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

esper wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

esper wrote...

Which is why I really, really hope we are not going to make a Jedi-like organisation.

The properly just meant the "big, powerful and legendary organization" thing. Not "black and white but suprisingly  questionable morality".

I really hope that. I mean, if we do get to influence how the Inqusition operates I would not make a goody, goody hero group. (That's boring), but the Jedi were... well... really not what I look up to.

It takes a lot of balls to proclaim yourself Protector Of Fredoom, Justice And Goodguy-ness when you employ a slave army.

Well, the alternative was to let the other side curbstomp the republic and turn it into who knows what. So spare the Karen Traviss BS with her paragon virtue mercenaries.

That said, Jedi aren´t what I would look up to, considering they go back to the same mistakes again and again and yet again. Good thing sith aren´t very bright either. But I doubt calling the DA organization Inquisition gives good vibes to many people. Especially if we get the chance to turn them into D&D legal good people, feels too much like a fictional whitewashing.

[esper]

RepHope wrote...

@esper sorry my phones a pain to type on. If I recall correctly The Maker didn't disown them because they were boring he disowned them because they just stood there. Remember the spirits learned vices AND virtues from mortals there were no "good" spirits or "bad" ones because there were no mortals to dream about virtues or vices.

Also the chantry doesn't think the demons emulate vices to be more human like. In fact demons think that the vices are what makes mortals unworthy of the maker according to the chantry. The maker chucking them out was probably just him sending mortals a message: Don't mess with me and mine. I agree that he should do something about the blights but I suppose one could view the Wardens as tools of the Maker.

As for the rest yeah that's pretty bad but it doesn't make him evil. It makes him indifferent. He doesn't wish harm on us he just doesn't care anymore and if we all die oh well. I think he's a bit of jerk but not evil.

No, that is exactly what the chantry thinks about the spirits and the demons. The spirits are the first children of the Maker that became demons in order to appear more human and regain his favour - that is why the chantry think demons posses people.

Sending a message is not all right when he created the mortals. There is no original sin in the chantry faith, no fall from grace. He created the mortals sinfull, he has never said anything about the freedom of choice between being good and evil, and thus his blight punishment is basically like a parent going: "You nature is this way." "Smack! How dare you act in your nature, now your brother and sisters are going to be punished too. You wanted a warning, too bad"

And he can't be behind the grey wardens, because he was in his first extented sulk, when they emerged.

As for the rest it does not make him indifferent. He fell in love, that is absolutely not indifference, he then picked a side based on those feelings, and then he got mad again, because affairs generally don't end well. He absolutely wish harm on the mortals, because he send the blight. Oh and I don't see him as jerkisk, I see him as a teenager, and teenager generally don't make the best fatherfigures, even less god.

It is much, much better he stays in his extended sulk. At least he can't do harm from there.

[Northern Sun]

Not too much in today's update, but I'm glad they're not going to have mage and templar be some crazy extremist like in DA2, they really dragged the story down.

Also interested in their mention of Cassandra's changing views.