1913 réponses à ce sujet

[Liamv2]

I approve +100

[Vlk3]

The more I read about DA:I, the more I want to play it. Deeper relationships, no matter if it is romance or not are certainly the right decision...

I just hope that the elf mage will be a love interest :>

[Wulfram]

The way they're talking about approval, it seems more like DA2 Friendship/Rivalry, but without the neutral doldrums. Which would be a good thing, but makes me a little confused about why they picked the old name.

Maybe they just thought the DA:O name would be better recieved?

[Elhanan]

One option I hope for in Romances is to be to create the boundaries for the LI without being heavily penalized for doing so. As an example, the female Warden was able to have a truly romantic moment with Alistair, and was able to have him cool off a bit so that the growing relationship was the priority; not the act of sex. It was such control over the bond that made it more substantial, IMO.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

The way they're talking about approval, it seems more like DA2 Friendship/Rivalry, but without the neutral doldrums. Which would be a good thing, but makes me a little confused about why they picked the old name.

Maybe they just thought the DA:O name would be better recieved?

Yes. It also sounds like they're abandoning the incremental meter for big moments, kind of like what they did with the gifts. 

[shepskisaac]

dreamgazer wrote...

"BioWare has to scale back on the time spent on the romances in the grander scheme of the project."

(thumbs up)

Keeping the number of LIs in check would be the start. When it comes to ME franchise, ME2 was the main problem here, adding SIX new LIs (seven with Kelly) while the other 2 games introduced 5 LIs combined.

[cindercatz]

Skyrim and Fallout are not twitch combat.. They're nothing like I want DA to be at all, but they're not twitch, and they are fun games IMO. I used Oblivion to help rehab my hand, even. I can hardly play twitch games anymore (arpgs, fighters, some shooters, GoW or Bayonetta on normal difficulty and up, etc.), but I have no problem with Elder Scrolls or Fallout.

I'm of two minds on the romance and approval news, but really I'm inclined more to positive. On the one hand, it sounds like they're doing a lot of what I've personally been asking for the last few years, since ME2 actually. They're integrating the romances more into the main story of the game, which is fantastic. In DA2 in particular, they were starting to feel extraneous. They're changing the context of interactions rather than gating them out based on approval. That also goes back to ME2 for me, and it was a problem with neutral bars in DA2. They're opening up more of the personal relationship stuff to non-romances, so that you can continue down a friend path as well more effectively (back to ME1). So I have to be very positive about all that, and I think it's going to be a lot more satisfying than what we're used to in terms of story cohesion and interpersonal nuance. On the other hand, I hope that doesn't also mean there's actually less romance content. I prefer it to be that, you know, there's more physicality and romantic dialogue variance in all the basic interactions throughout the game, along with a few romance exclusive scenes (that also tie into the main plot, more like ME1&3, some of DA:Os, and KoTOR), but I also want small or variant romantic scenes throughout the game along with a few exclusive scenes, like the Liara romance in ME3. That's the best of both worlds ideal scenario.

So it seems like a lot and I hope they haven't actually cut back on romantic content in some way like that header implies. What they are doing sounds great, though. It sounds like a lot of real improvements.

@Elhanon
Conversely, if you played a more teasing/aggressive female warden, Alistair's sheepishness and chaste upbringing are the issue. You're giving him the space he needs, instead of the other way around. It worked very well for that one. I think Morrigan's was even better, if you played a lovesick warden who was determined to help Morrigan break Flemeth's programming and find her better angels. I could really feel the change in her outlook and the growing bond between the characters.

My favorite BioWare romances, in order, are Liara ME1-3, Bastila KoTOR, Morrigan DA:O, (non-BioWare) Handmaiden/Briana KoTOR 2, Jack ME2-3, the hero, Queen and Concubine arrangement from Jade Empire, and Alistair DA:O.

Guy made the list at number seven, so his was pretty decent. The main thing was how well it tied into the main story, and then how it developed at your own pace, rather than flagging a particular level here or there. When you have to choose between him and Zevran as an elf, going back and forth rather than a big blown up moment, that was strong, and then when he rejects you on racial grounds at the end, that sealed it.

Modifié par cindercatz, 28 août 2013 - 10:16 .

[Elhanan]

One of the most immersive Romances in Bioware history for me was Aveline from DA2, though it broke my wittle heart. Having experienced such a Romance in RL a few times made this one so believable; so much that I could only play it once out of all my characters.

But my earlier point was that I appreciated the simple but emotional statements made from a rose and a simple kiss in DAO, and that anything more was completely up to the indv Player. For myself, more Romance like this, as opposed to the more graphical sex displayed in other possible examples.

P.S. Would also enjoy seeing the continuation of either the Warden or Alistair and Anora as the royal couple in Ferelden as a possible mention moving forward. This ref in the Epilogue was one of my personal faves, possibly illustrating the great trust the couple displayed at lowering emotional shields over time.

Modifié par Elhanan, 28 août 2013 - 10:49 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Does that mean there is going to be less romance content in DAI than the previous games?

[Angrywolves]

Ninja Stan said yesterday Bioware doesn't have to scale back romances to accomodate the rest of the game.
I feel I'm very close to getting banned because I'm tired of all the ridiculous comments some posters are making and the ridiculous and repetitive threads some posters are starting.
If you don't like romances that's fine.
THEN DON'T DO THEM!
Why advocate censoring the games to take romances away from those who enjoy them ?
sheesh!

[LPPrince]

Does Aveline count, though?

[Angrywolves]

No she doesn't .
Well as we all know the players who hate romances have been coming out of the woodwork .
Like cockroaches in a squalid tenament.
Well that article seems to vindicate their wishes.
Less romances .
Deemphasizing romances .
shrugs.
The previous posters were looking for the big explosion .
Not happening.
Laidlaw and Darrah need to think again.
Maybe they would be happy with another skyrim.
Getting those kinds of sales numbers.
Cut back on romances, gett the skyrim fans and the dragon dogma fans who aren't interested in romances, and DAI is a huge success.
Throw in the DA players who only want to fight and kill and it's a bigger success.
Bioware won't need the players who like romances, to be successful.Throw them under the bus on the way to a big success.
No explosion here.

[AresKeith]

Angrywolves wrote...

No she doesn't .
Well as we all know the players who hate romances have been coming out of the woodwork .
Like cockroaches in a squalid tenament.
Well that article seems to vindicate their wishes.
Less romances .
Deemphasizing romances .
shrugs.
The previous posters were looking for the big explosion .
Not happening.
Laidlaw and Darrah need to think again.
Maybe they would be happy with another skyrim.
Getting those kinds of sales numbers.
Cut back on romances, gett the skyrim fans and the dragon dogma fans who aren't interested in romances, and DAI is a huge success.
Throw in the DA players who only want to fight and kill and it's a bigger success.
Bioware won't need the players who like romances, to be successful.Throw them under the bus on the way to a big success.
No explosion here.

They don't actually hate romances

[MaraGriffyn]

Angrywolves wrote...

No she doesn't .
Well as we all know the players who hate romances have been coming out of the woodwork .
Like cockroaches in a squalid tenament.
Well that article seems to vindicate their wishes.
Less romances .
Deemphasizing romances .
shrugs.
The previous posters were looking for the big explosion .
Not happening.
Laidlaw and Darrah need to think again.
Maybe they would be happy with another skyrim.
Getting those kinds of sales numbers.
Cut back on romances, gett the skyrim fans and the dragon dogma fans who aren't interested in romances, and DAI is a huge success.
Throw in the DA players who only want to fight and kill and it's a bigger success.
Bioware won't need the players who like romances, to be successful.Throw them under the bus on the way to a big success.
No explosion here.

What even.

They're simply pointing out the reality that they have limited resources to devote to an optional sub-plot of the game, and that in order to ensure all of these subplots are well-developed, they naturally must limit how many they choose to include.

No one is being thrown "under the bus".

[unbentbuzzkill]

I thought the romances were just fine in the previous games, and I must admit that this recent decision does make me a tad bit worried about the possible impact it could have story wise.

[Stella-Arc]

Romances are being shorten? Well...that's disappointing. Ah, well. I am intrigue by the whole approval rating being event driven.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 29 août 2013 - 01:19 .

[kinderschlager]

 i see LPP changed their profile pic again >.>

and latest update at least let us get an idea of how Bioware makes characters and romances.

(now that we only have one update left? PLEASE let it be about abilities/equipment/skills)

Modifié par kinderschlager, 29 août 2013 - 01:22 .

[cindercatz]

Elhanan wrote...

1. One of the most immersive Romances in Bioware history for me was Aveline from DA2, though it broke my wittle heart. Having experienced such a Romance in RL a few times made this one so believable; so much that I could only play it once out of all my characters.

2. But my earlier point was that I appreciated the simple but emotional statements made from a rose and a simple kiss in DAO, and that anything more was completely up to the indv Player. For myself, more Romance like this, as opposed to the more graphical sex displayed in other possible examples.

3. P.S. Would also enjoy seeing the continuation of either the Warden or Alistair and Anora as the royal couple in Ferelden as a possible mention moving forward. This ref in the Epilogue was one of my personal faves, possibly illustrating the great trust the couple displayed at lowering emotional shields over time.

1. I thought Aveline was great, but I never considered it a romance, because it doesn't get past rejection, right? I like the idea of being able to ask anybody you like, whether they accept you or not. At least you can express your preference and the game can acknowledge it.

3. I'd love to actually see the Ferelden royalty next game (preferably with the Warden, Alistair, and/or Anora, whoever you left the monarch in your save). I don't think of it as a romance thing unless your Warden's involved. One of mine is king, for instance. Anora was my most common standing royal in DA:O, but I think she ended up with my Warden once, with Alistair once, and on her own the other four times.

(Next answer is edited down.  I think it's been enough time if anybody wanted to read it.)

2. I don't understand why we can't appreciate both? All in one package? Every really great romance I've ever seen hasn't pulled punches. I don't mind there not being nudity as long as the scenes are still moving, but avoiding it bothers me, both in terms of how it takes me completely out of the scene when they do it and in how it supports social attitudes and behaviour that are antithetical to the kind of society I want to live in.
 (edited out personal experience)
Anything that says sex is bad and judgementalism is good, is harmful. Any kind of unnaturally oppressive social construct is harmful.
(edited section done)

Graphic sexual type situations are an entirely different issue. I'm not opposed to it in general, I'm obviously comfortable with sex with my pov, but DA's tone doesn't suit it. More along the lines of GoT is what I'd prefer in a perfect world (which yes there's nudity, but very few actual sexual scenes, and they're not graphic). But even that isn't necessary. If you were to simply not avoid nudity in the game, there's no reason you need any sex/love scenes at all. Just saying. You can very effectively convey intimacy and anticipation with minor use of nudity without ever getting to the sex, and underwear or full clothes romance love scenes don't do that nearly as effectively, or at all if you're put off by them like I am. If they just hard line don't want nudity, that's fine, but do something new if you can find the right answer, and don't treat nudity like it's an insult. If that means going back to KoTOR style G rated romance, so be it. It's much better than the current attitude. Like I've said before, if they want to make this a PG-13/ T+ game, it's their choice. Just don't keep up with the current, very negative message they've had so far in DA. It's not a mindset I can support.

(Thanks for understanding, anybody that read the original.   )

Modifié par cindercatz, 29 août 2013 - 06:19 .

[Elhanan]

@ cindercatz - I may not follow, but it appears you are saying that if there is a sex scene, there should be nudity. However, your preference is fade To Black and other like options and skip it altogether, which is also mine. Here we have common ground.

[MisterJB]

"Criticisms regarding stock romances and approval ratings dictating relationships have been looming. Fans should be happy to know that approval ratings are playing a different role this time around. "Previously, we had a lot of the follower content gated by your approval rating. Whereas what we're doing now, we're having a lot more of your content event-driven," Gaider says. "The approval you're at informs the nature of the conversation."

This doesn't sound very different from DA2's system. You'd reach a point in the game where you could talk to your companions and when you did, the interaction changed depending on whether they were Friends or Rivals.
This is not a complaint, merely an observation.

[Ecmoose]

 From the article on GI:

"BioWare has to scale back on the time spent on the romances in the grander scheme of the project. "The follower characters in general are enormously complex," Gaider says. "They're a massive investment in terms of gameplay and storytelling.""We try to push ourselves," Laidlaw adds. "We try to do things we haven't done before. We try to explore characters we haven't done before, but there comes a point in which you can afford only so much crazy."The team often has to reel themselves in, and they're well aware of criticisms about fans wanting more detailed, realistic romances. "

No where does the article say that DAI will have less romance then previous games, all it states is that the team has to keep themselves in check when it comes to romance, much like they had to do the last 2 games. Everyone is getting up in arms for no reason. 

Modifié par Ecmoose, 29 août 2013 - 02:53 .

[Chanda]

Regarding the nudity discussion: Would it be so hard to put an option in the settings where people can choose to see it or not? If they have "mature scenes enabled", then they see the whole thing, nudity and all. If "mature scenes disabled" is chosen, then they get a scene like what we had for DA2. Not much shown and fade to black. Essentially, it would be allowing the scene to start, but before it got to the removing clothing bit, it would fade out and skip ahead to the after scene. Everyone wins.

[Eagle Pusuit]

Ecmoose wrote...

 From the article on GI:

"BioWare has to scale back on the time spent on the romances in the grander scheme of the project. "The follower characters in general are enormously complex," Gaider says. "They're a massive investment in terms of gameplay and storytelling.""We try to push ourselves," Laidlaw adds. "We try to do things we haven't done before. We try to explore characters we haven't done before, but there comes a point in which you can afford only so much crazy."The team often has to reel themselves in, and they're well aware of criticisms about fans wanting more detailed, realistic romances. "

No where does the article say that DAI will have less romance then previous games, all it states is that the team has to keep themselves in check when it comes to romance, much like they had to do the last 2 games. Everyone is getting up in arms for no reason. 

I agree. There is no reason to believe that there is less romance than previous iterations. It is just that fewer man-hours (and woman-hours too) were spent on it than the designers would have preferred. They probably like designing the romances as much as many of us like playing them, and if given endless resources, they would have intricate and nuanced approaches to all of them.

[cindercatz]

@Elhanon
I'm ok with fade to black if it's done well enough to be a genuinely strong scene. Not like DA2. If there is a love scene, though (including fade to black), if there were a smidgeon of nudity, or even just moving that direction with the appropriate tenderness, rather than the kind of obvious avoidance like we currently have, that would be better. If you still avoid nudity, though, you have to stop using nudity as a negative, monstrous attribute only (e.g.: The Mother in DA:A, all the negative sexual aspects of the Darkspawn etc. with no positive counterweight). Obviously, they can do what they want and I'll still enjoy the game overall, but this is a problem in this series as it is.

Chanda wrote...

Regarding the nudity discussion: Would it be so hard to put an option in the settings where people can choose to see it or not? If they have "mature scenes enabled", then they see the whole thing, nudity and all. If "mature scenes disabled" is chosen, then they get a scene like what we had for DA2. Not much shown and fade to black. Essentially, it would be allowing the scene to start, but before it got to the removing clothing bit, it would fade out and skip ahead to the after scene. Everyone wins.

In a perfect world, this is what I'd do. Even a couple seconds of alternate content would be fine, so everybody gets an equal quantity scene at least. Then it's a matter of personal preference and not the wrong social statement, and the scene is better for everybody how they're comfortable. But I don't see them doing this for DA:I at least, unfortunately. I don't think they're revisiting that policy for now.

Modifié par cindercatz, 29 août 2013 - 06:39 .