692 réponses à ce sujet

[CynicalShep]

Vindicated? No. Many of the things they've done could have been done in a more ethical way. Were they looking for understanding or trying to win a war everyone was fighting in their own way?

[Xplode441]

Ravensword wrote...

I still wonder why they felt the need to give EDI a body.

Because why wouldn't they add a hot sexbot? This is the future, not 2013, get with the times.

[David7204]

o Ventus wrote...

Who we are infinitely lucky she evolved the way she did. She isn't an inherent negative or positive about Reaper tech. Never mind that Reaper tech makes up less than half her software. She's still primarily Cerberus and Alliance tech.

...How is that luck, again?

[o Ventus]

Steelcan wrote...

1. The work wasn't completed, given more time Sanctuary probably would have succeeded.

"At that point, if you get no results (or half-assed results, in Cerberus' case in only being able to control husks), consider a different tactic."

2. But he does have access to more battlefield intelligence than Shepard does.

Which is why he's making guesses.

3. Killing Reapers is not what they want, preventing an alliance would further that goal.

What part of "this is only known after the fact" do yo not understand?

[Steelcan]

How did Legion's upload backfire? The IFF was still incredibly useful, even necessary, to fight the Collectors.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

[inappropriate post removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 09 août 2013 - 08:52 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

...How is that luck, again?

I don't know about you, but I've never trained an AI capable of quantum computing (the same AI who has total control over my quality-of-life aboard the ship) to be a "person".

[Steelcan]

1. Or keep going until you get results. The research was not complete and cannot be judged as if it was.

2. He does not sound like he is guessing to me, he doesn't say "I think" or "I believe"

3. What is only known after the fact?

[o Ventus]

Steelcan wrote...

How did Legion's upload backfire?

Did you not play the entire Rannoch arc? Those hostile geth had the Reaper upgrades in them. Legion doesn't bother to tell you how the geth plan on defending themselves from the Reapers if the Reapers ever decide to use their magical plot technology and attempt to force the geth under their control again.

[David7204]

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

...How is that luck, again?

I don't know about you, but I've never trained an AI capable of quantum computing (the same AI who has total control over my quality-of-life aboard the ship) to be a "person".

And since you've never done it, you therefore conclude Shepard must be extroidinarily lucky?

Modifié par David7204, 09 août 2013 - 07:50 .

[Steelcan]

o Ventus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

How did Legion's upload backfire?

Did you not play the entire Rannoch arc? Those hostile geth had the Reaper upgrades in them. Legion doesn't bother to tell you how the geth plan on defending themselves from the Reapers if the Reapers ever decide to use their magical plot technology and attempt to force the geth under their control again.

I repeat, how did Legion's upload at the climax of Rannoch backfire? It didn't. it should have, but it didn't.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

The writers just put that stuff in there to make you feel bad for not choosing Synthesis. EDI serves no purpose or commentary other than to be a form of manipulation.

She does provide an interesting perspective on the nature of synthetic life.  That alone makes her thematically important.

Modifié par Steelcan, 09 août 2013 - 07:53 .

[Xplode441]

o Ventus wrote...

Did you not play the entire Rannoch arc? Those hostile geth had the Reaper upgrades in them. Legion doesn't bother to tell you how the geth plan on defending themselves from the Reapers if the Reapers ever decide to use their magical plot technology and attempt to force the geth under their control again.

Did you not pay attention to the storyline? The reapers never once forced the geth to work for them.  The geth always willingly went to them, once because they were revered as the old machines and it wasn't even all of the geth it was the rogue group.  Then when the Quarians were attacking the geth and they went into survival mode to make sure they weren't obliterated so they allied with the reapers to get the upgrades they needed to stay alive.  Once they have the reaper code and the Quarians are dead/at peace they have no reason to go back to the reapers, especially if you destroyed all the rogue geth in ME2.

[David7204]

You see, this is very silly way to look at characters. Reducing characters to 'Their only purpose was to such-and-such' is ridiculous.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

You see, this is very silly way to look at characters. Reducing characters to 'Their only purpose was to such-and-such' is ridiculous.

Why?  Aren't characters the method writers use to showcase opinions and viewpoints on a story's themes?

[o Ventus]

Steelcan wrote...

1. Or keep going until you get results. The research was not complete and cannot be judged as if it was.

The first million times it doesn't work. At the end of the next million, Cerberus gets lucky and they learn how to control husks. In a war against skyscraper-sized cuttlefish, that isn't a meaningful victory. As far as the narrative is concerned, Cerberus' ability to control husks was entirely pointless. It's never addressed beyond Sanctuary, and it isn't present at all during the TIM confrontation or when Shepard talks to the Catalyst. The narrative all but goes out of its way to tell you (but not so much show you, which is the big flaw) that Cerberus' plan isn't going to work. It turns out that the Reapers CAN be controlled, but not the way Cerberus planned on doing it.

2. He does not sound like he is guessing to me, he doesn't say "I think" or "I believe"

Now you're being needlessly pedantic. Because he doesn't say these 2 things doesn't mean he is certain. Go and actually watch the debriefing with Hackett after Benning.

3. What is only known after the fact?

You're using metagaming to justify something that neither the player nor the characters know at the present time. You're killing your own argument.

Nobody knows that Cerberus wants to control the Reapers by the time Tuchanka happens. Nobody knows what their intentions are. For all we know, they're criminally insane and are trying to undermine our effort. Which they are.

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You see, this is very silly way to look at characters. Reducing characters to 'Their only purpose was to such-and-such' is ridiculous.

Why?  Aren't characters the method writers use to showcase opinions and viewpoints on a story's themes?

That's certainly nowhere even remotely all they are.

[David7204]

No.

Characters are not walking 'viewpoints' and nothing else.

Modifié par David7204, 09 août 2013 - 08:02 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You see, this is very silly way to look at characters. Reducing characters to 'Their only purpose was to such-and-such' is ridiculous.

Why?  Aren't characters the method writers use to showcase opinions and viewpoints on a story's themes?

That's certainly nowhere even remotely all they are.

Enlighten me, what other purpose do they serve?

(Conduits for heroism?)

[o Ventus]

Xplode441 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Did you not play the entire Rannoch arc? Those hostile geth had the Reaper upgrades in them. Legion doesn't bother to tell you how the geth plan on defending themselves from the Reapers if the Reapers ever decide to use their magical plot technology and attempt to force the geth under their control again.

Did you not pay attention to the storyline? The reapers never once forced the geth to work for them.  The geth always willingly went to them, once because they were revered as the old machines and it wasn't even all of the geth it was the rogue group.  Then when the Quarians were attacking the geth and they went into survival mode to make sure they weren't obliterated so they allied with the reapers to get the upgrades they needed to stay alive.  Once they have the reaper code and the Quarians are dead/at peace they have no reason to go back to the reapers, especially if you destroyed all the rogue geth in ME2.

Go to 34:35. Straight from Tali's mouth:

"The geth are being controlled by the Reaper signal."

[Xplode441]

o Ventus wrote...

You're using metagaming to justify something that neither the player nor the characters know at the present time. You're killing your own argument.

Nobody knows that Cerberus wants to control the Reapers by the time Tuchanka happens. Nobody knows what their intentions are. For all we know, they're criminally insane and are trying to undermine our effort. Which they are.

Yeah, I'm not seeing how this kills his argument on this particular point here at all.  He's not basing this off of Shepard's POV, if he was then you'd have a valid point, but if I'm correct in assuming that he's just explaining Cerberus's ulterior motives then this holds no water as an argument.
It makes sense that Cerberus would want a war between the Turians/Krogan because the Turians are a major naval force and the Korgans are a major land-fighting force.  If they could render the reapers a non-threat (which they thought they could) they would want to eliminate the two forces that would greatly oppose them.

[Steelcan]

@Ventus

1. Again, more time might have enabled Control as envisioned by TIM to be a reality.

2. I did, he says "And for once we are inclined to believe them" That implies that he has a reason to believe that Cerberus is not responsible.

3. TIM tells you on Mars

Modifié par Steelcan, 09 août 2013 - 08:06 .