692 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Shingara's been a bit difficult to understand, and I'm never fond of the "You picked a play-style that I disagree with in a vidya game MILLION YEARS IN DUNGEON you're literally worse than Hitler!"

So Shin-y loses I guess...?

shingara has a habit of using massively overblown rhetoric. And his English isn't all that great, which adds to the confusion. It isn't worth taking too seriously. Get into it for five or six pages and you'll eventually get him down to something more-or-less reasonable, but this isn't a productive use of time unless you find the exercise amusing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 août 2013 - 06:29 .

[AlanC9]

Which I guess means I'm voting for MassivelyEffective too.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[RatThing]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

shingara wrote...
snip

Lets hold a poll. You are not allowed to answer.

Our peers will decide:

As far as reasonable posts go, who has been the more reasonable and respectful poster who has given the best presentation for his points? 

Myself, MassivelyEffective0730?

Or shingara?

I can`t help it. Your argument reminds me of something.



I wonder why.

[Display Name Owner]

As far as I recall, rebuilding Shep and constructing the SR-2 are about the only two Cerberus projects that had any significant benefit without some ridiculous terrible cost.

They're responsible for the birth of Human Biotics, caused by them deliberately crashing ships and spilling Eezo everywhere, which of course resulted in hundreds of birth defects and stillbirths.

There's Project Overlord, which I would actually find forgivable given the intentions and the relatively small cost of one life, except a) it yielded no results and went wrong like virtually everything else they touch.

Rachni, went wrong, people died, Thorian Creepers, went wrong, people died.

Christ knows what they were even trying to do with Akuze.

Not to mention every single thing they did in ME3. Indoctrinated or not, it was their own fault for being catastrophically stupid with the Collector Base.

Ultimately, I actually find some of their methods forgivable. And yes, in some cases I think the terrible things they do could be justified by the results, Overlord for instance. But more than once they've gone too far for too little gain. Their propensity for failure certainly doesn't help their image either. Sometimes they're like a bunch of idiots who think they can get their way by throwing money and dead bodies at a problem, which is made even worse by the fact that they often fail to solve the problem itself.

That said, I think the contributions they have made should be acknowledged. Even so, their only goal has been human dominance, despite what some may say. I don't have anything against a pro-human group, but Cerberus isn't just about bettering humanity, but about claiming a largely undeserved position at the top. So whilst some humans might be able to say that in their favour, about 90% of the galaxy has no reason to even attempt to forgive anything Cerberus has ever done.

Short version - if they weren't such a f*** up, maybe they could be vindicated, but they've pulled too many stupid antics for that at this point.

[Alien Number Six]

isnudo wrote...

As far as I recall, rebuilding Shep and constructing the SR-2 are about the only two Cerberus projects that had any significant benefit without some ridiculous terrible cost.

They're responsible for the birth of Human Biotics, caused by them deliberately crashing ships and spilling Eezo everywhere, which of course resulted in hundreds of birth defects and stillbirths.

There's Project Overlord, which I would actually find forgivable given the intentions and the relatively small cost of one life, except a) it yielded no results and went wrong like virtually everything else they touch.

Rachni, went wrong, people died, Thorian Creepers, went wrong, people died.

Christ knows what they were even trying to do with Akuze.

Not to mention every single thing they did in ME3. Indoctrinated or not, it was their own fault for being catastrophically stupid with the Collector Base.

Ultimately, I actually find some of their methods forgivable. And yes, in some cases I think the terrible things they do could be justified by the results, Overlord for instance. But more than once they've gone too far for too little gain. Their propensity for failure certainly doesn't help their image either. Sometimes they're like a bunch of idiots who think they can get their way by throwing money and dead bodies at a problem, which is made even worse by the fact that they often fail to solve the problem itself.

That said, I think the contributions they have made should be acknowledged. Even so, their only goal has been human dominance, despite what some may say. I don't have anything against a pro-human group, but Cerberus isn't just about bettering humanity, but about claiming a largely undeserved position at the top. So whilst some humans might be able to say that in their favour, about 90% of the galaxy has no reason to even attempt to forgive anything Cerberus has ever done.

Short version - if they weren't such a f*** up, maybe they could be vindicated, but they've pulled too many stupid antics for that at this point.

One thousand times this. They are a broken sword. Worthless. They were too busy screwing around with humanity to save it. And as far as the pro-human angle goes they talked a good game but showed their true colors on horizen. They are no better than the Naz+is

[Fixers0]

Xilizhra wrote...
It's not a retcon; the war room guards in ME3 mention that origin of Cerberus in one conversation. So one of two things: both they and Kahoku were mistaken, or TIM took over a preexisting Alliance black ops group. But it's not a retcon.

Any alteration of established facts in the continuity of a fictional work is a  retcon. Cerberus' history changing from Alliance black'ops iniative to a private terrorist group is the very defition of one. You're speculation on possible secnarios does in no way constitue an argument. Mind projection fallacy.

[Seboist]

The evolution comic retconned Derperus' origin by having it separate from the Alliance since the start and it being TIM's creation via his "manifesto".

[Mr.House]

Cerberus went from being a small black ops group in ME to Cobra in ME2 to the Sith Empire in ME3. That's a retcon.

[Mr.House]

Seboist wrote...

The evolution comic retconned Derperus' origin by having it separate from the Alliance since the start and it being TIM's creation via his "manifesto".

Which contradicts the hell out of ME.

[wolfhowwl]

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

[Fixers0]

The most important part about the Cerberus retcon is that Drew Karpyshyn outright addimited that when the orginal Mass Effect was created the hadn't thought them out beyond what was presented ingame.

[Mr.House]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Anybody remember when Mass Effect was about spectres and Reapers?

No?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 11 août 2013 - 10:43 .

[Mr.House]

Lizardviking wrote...

Anybody remember when Mass Effect was about spectres and Reapers?

No?

That was so 2007.

[wolfhowwl]

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 11 août 2013 - 10:45 .

[Mr.House]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

Sadly true.They might as well just rename ME to Cerberus Effect.

[Seboist]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Combine the Geth with Derperus in ME3 and the game is barely about the Reapers.

Modifié par Seboist, 11 août 2013 - 10:48 .

[Seboist]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

That's pretty much true and it's another one Walters' attempts at "greyness" much like the clockwork orange machine in Overlord.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

That's pretty much true and it's another one Walters' attempts at "greyness" much like the clockwork orange machine in Overlord.

And doesn't Books join Cerberus even though she was a slave in said labor camp?

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

That's pretty much true and it's another one Walters' attempts at "greyness" much like the clockwork orange machine in Overlord.

Grayness my ass. At that point it's an attempt to try to make Cerberus the most evil organization ever. I thought Cerberus as an evil organization was overdone in ME3. Apparently, SuperMac wasn't finished w/ them yet. What's next? The new leader of Cerberus is led by a daemon prince?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Mr.House wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Anybody remember when Mass Effect was about spectres and Reapers?

No?

That was so 2007.

I think a certain writer at this point is just jerking off to his own creation within the ME franchise at this point.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

That's pretty much true and it's another one Walters' attempts at "greyness" much like the clockwork orange machine in Overlord.

Grayness my ass. At that point it's an attempt to try to make Cerberus the most evil organization ever. I thought Cerberus as an evil organization was overdone in ME3. Apparently, SuperMac wasn't finished w/ them yet. What's next? The new leader of Cerberus is led by a daemon prince?

TIM shot Bambi's mom.

[Mr.House]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Those few missions in ME1 were the first malignant cells of the Cerberus plot cancer, none of us could have predicted the massive tumor that would overshadow even the Reapers in ME3.

Not even the writers since they made up everything as they went along, LOL!

Cerberus was fine in ME, it was self contained and made sense. Sadly Drew and Mac said NO, we need moar Cerberus! and thus everything went to hell.

Someone on here claimed that the new ME comic had Cerberus help build Arcturus Station using child slave labor.

That's pretty much true and it's another one Walters' attempts at "greyness" much like the clockwork orange machine in Overlord.

And doesn't Books join Cerberus even though she was a slave in said labor camp?

Funny enough that comic made Brooks who was good in the dlc look worse thus destroying a decent character.

[Ravensword]

Lizardviking wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Anybody remember when Mass Effect was about spectres and Reapers?

No?

That was so 2007.

I think a certain writer at this point is just jerking off to his own creation within the ME franchise at this point.

The very creation he drowned?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Ravensword wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Anybody remember when Mass Effect was about spectres and Reapers?

No?

That was so 2007.

I think a certain writer at this point is just jerking off to his own creation within the ME franchise at this point.

The very creation he drowned?

Not in his eyes. In his eyes the plot was downright amazing.