692 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

[Inappropriate post removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 09 août 2013 - 08:55 .

[David7204]

Edited: Inappropriate post removed. ~Mod05

Modifié par BioWareMod05, 10 août 2013 - 03:46 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Enough. Enough of the clumsy lying. Enough. If you really thought those stories did everything better, you would be spending your time discussing them and not Mass Effect.

The community isn't as nice

[David7204]

And if you're applying it to Mass Effect, your deconstruction is wrong. The characters are and always have been far more than walking viewpoints.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

And if you're applying it to Mass Effect, your deconstruction is wrong. The characters are and always have been far more than walking viewpoints.

For example?

[David7204]

Every single line of dialogue in existence that isn't a 'viewpoint.' Which is 99% of them.

Modifié par David7204, 09 août 2013 - 08:44 .

[wolfhowwl]

[Inappropriate post removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 09 août 2013 - 08:57 .

[David7204]

I've really getting tired of this.

Is this genuinely fun to you? Satisfying? Fulfilling? To post your little pictures and pretend you're proving something to someone?

We've all seen the pictures. They're not clever. They're annoying. You're annoying.

Modifié par David7204, 09 août 2013 - 08:45 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Every single line of dialogue in existence that isn't a 'viewpoint.' Which is 99% of them.

Sorry, but banter ranks even lower.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I've really getting tired of this.

Is this genuinely fun to you? Satisfying? Fulfilling? To post your little pictures and pretend you're proving something to someone?

We've all seen the pictures. They're not clever. They're annoying. You're annoying.

We don't need to prove anything.  You are doing it all for us.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that you have to post these ridiculous pictures and chant 'heroism' as if you're making a point is just proving to me you're just not smart enough to do anything else. And that I'm wasting my time being here.

It proves that you have been reduced to a meme on this site.  That is your credibility.

[David7204]

Steelcan, is this really it? Is this the best you can do? Copy and paste 'HEROISM' or 'CHARACTERZATION' every 10 minutes?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan, is this really it? Is this the best you can do? Copy and paste 'HEROISM' or 'CHARACTERZATION' every 10 minutes?

No it isn't the best I can do.  I've long ceased trying to actually debate you.

[Ninja Stan]

Some vulgar content and bickering removed from thread. Bans have been handed out. Play nice, folks.

[Ravensword]

If Cerberus hadn't become the Sith Empire and and simply remained the morally grey organization as it was in ME2, then they would've definitely been vindicated.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...
3. They do not want the Reapers destroyed, a Turian-Krogan Alliance would hurt that goal.

Except that the Allies are the ones buying Cerberus time. Without them the Reapers would far more easily conquer the galaxy, leading to the destruction of the Horizon facility before they got anything done there.

[Alien Number Six]

Cerburus was heading in the right direction. Rebuilding the Normandy and Shepard showed they had humanities best intrests in mind. In fact they where doing more than the Systems Alliance was doing at that point. Dispite the fact TIM was correct about controling the Reapers the actions that he took to get there where crimes against humanity and the other races of the galaxy. As far as control goes I feel that TIM knew deep down indoctrination would keep him from controling the Reapers that is why he spent the entire game trying to talk Shepard into it. Perhaps he hoped Shepard would be his fail safe. His hedge against disaster in case his "the ends justify the means." style got the better of him. After all he brought back Shepard unchanged for some reason.

[Alien Number Six]

Too bad about all the fighting this is a intresting thread.

[o Ventus]

Ravensword wrote...

If Cerberus hadn't become the Sith Empire and and simply remained the morally grey organization as it was in ME2, then they would've definitely been vindicated.

I'm still not sure I would totally go with vindicated, but they would be much more understandable at the very least. ME2 Cerberus I can get empathize with, even support. ME3 Cerberus though... No.

[Kataphrut94]

I guess they are, but the problem is less about their sketchy morals and more about their incompetence. While Lazarus succeeded at bringing back Shepard, the fact that it still ended with "...it got loose and killed all our guys" is proof enough that these guys are really given way too much credit.

I mean seriously, Wilson created a cure for DEATH and still thought he'd get more money by setting the mechs on everything (and wasn't even smart enough to not get shot himself)? How stupid do you have to be, and more to the point, why aren't they selling that technology?

Don't get me wrong, bringing back the dead, studying the geth and trying to control the Reapers are all good ideas that are proven to work. The problem is they execute them in the most shamelessly self-destructive and idiotically evil ways, then try to write it off as the ends justifying the means. It feels like Cerberus getting something right is less of case of the 'triumph of the private sector over government intervention' ideal that someone on the writing team was clearly in love with and more a case of 'a broken clock is right twice a day'.

Modifié par Kataphrut94, 09 août 2013 - 09:34 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Cerberus made amazing contributions, but isn't vindicated.

[Dieb]

The question is --and I really mean I do not know-- is Cerberus really the "morally grey" organization we get the impression of in the second game? What do we actually see of Cerberus in ME2 particularly?

Throughout the entire trilogy, whenever we "uninvitedly" enter a Cerberus complex, there is death and out-of-control, negligent experiments - even very much so in ME2.

I was always under the impression that Miranda is some sort of proto-Shepard, when it comes to the means of convincing her to stay loyal to the organization: She's just as surprised as the Commander about pretty much anything that is revealed about Cerberus, and you never hear her explain herself along the lines of: "Oh yeah... this. Sorry you see that."

I don't know if this was done to make her less off-putting to a whider array of players, but Miranda's take on what Cerberus is makes them come off a lot more likeable. Depite even being advertised as TIM's #2 however, she doesn't seem to be aware of anything a non-extremist would immediately disapprove of - EDIs explanation on the cell-based structure goes a long way in explaining that maybe, but that would also mean there have to be other "number twos".

With an organization that's basically built from a small number of entirely independent sub-organizations, it's fairly easy to be appealing to any kind of personality.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 09 août 2013 - 09:54 .

[Indy_S]

Gollum died taking the Ring into the lava. (Slight spoiler there for anyone who didn't know.) He led the hobbits into Mordor, another good deed. He is not vindicated by these actions. I believe there is no scale from vindicated to vilified. Good deeds do not outweigh bad. Bad do not outweigh good. They are separate.