154 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...
expand your horizon a little

Don't presume to know anything of my "horizons".  I've seen plenty of sci-fis where humanity is the underdog or similar position, many of which I have personally found dull and uninteresting.  Many of these I notice are more recent like the new BSG which just happens to be on my list of dull and uninteresting.

Ok, I'll bite. Which series would that be?

Battlestar Galactica doesn't have aliens...cylons are all human created a la Terminator or Matrix.

So how can you consider BSG not a human-centred setting when the only two species are humans and their creations?

Like I said before, only setting where humans aren't the main mover and shakers would be Babylon 5 before the elder races leave...

Andromeda maybe? That's a weird one I think given that while Earth doesn't seem to be important, species from earh though play a big part (Nietcheans and whatever planet Sorbo/Dylan Hunt was supposed to be from)

[Astartes Marine]

KaiserShep wrote...
It's safest to assume that even if the power does shift in humanity's favor, it will likely be shared among the other dominant species similarly to the pre-reaper invasion setting. Given the theme of diversity and all that, this is likely not going to change.

As long as the squids don't dominate everyone like they do the dev team or whomever made them the "favored" species. 
I'd actually like to see the greater underdogs get a bigger voice in the post-war setting like the Krogan and the Quarians/Geth.  Not lopsided in favor of them exclusively, but for them to have more influence considering how much they potentially help the war effort, especially the Krogan.

Bleachrude wrote...
Ok, I'll bite. Which series would that be?

I've seen quite a few, stretching way way back to the days of V, Space Above and Beyond, Earth 2, Dark Skies and the like.  IF you want a full detailed list of which ones I thought were crap?  Probably not going to happen as I don't want to derail the thread too much.  Though I will say that Stargate SG-1 and the spinoff bored the hell out of me.

I'm not looking for humanity to rule the stars unquestioned, but I would like us to become the pioneers of the future and stand with the other races rather than simply behind them as we have been even with a council seat.

Bleachrude wrote...
Battlestar Galactica doesn't have aliens...cylons are all human created a la Terminator or Matrix.

New crap one the Cylons were man-made, older better one (imo) the Cylons were a remnant of a long dead species that made the Cylons as war machines, we got involved when we saved a species the Cylons were in the process of exterminating and thus we shifted their focus. 

And my problem isn't really whether it's centered on the humans or not, Babylon 5, one of my favorite tv shows of all time, was not in any way "centered" on humanity, but it didn't center on any one in particular.  Humanity though was an important player in many of the events such as the very construction of the Babylon station. 
My problem is that there's too many shows that portray humanity as the super underdogs, the weakest of the factions or the smallest in the group and often trying to suck up to the xenos.  I don't know what got into sci-fi writers in the past decade or so but it gets old fast like games set "in a post-apocalyptic world..."<_<

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 août 2013 - 03:48 .

[Ledgend1221]

Humanity should reign as the top dogs.

Anyone who questions this should be met with a couple of Dreadnoughts.

[KaiserShep]

Eh, the old BSG was cheesy as hell. Besides, new Adama > old Adama.

[LiL Reapur]

KaiserShep wrote...

Eh, the old BSG was cheesy as hell. Besides, new Adama > old Adama.

Never watched Battlestar thought it was lame. Is it good?

Modifié par LiL Reapur, 10 août 2013 - 04:57 .

[Bleachrude]

Astartes Marine wrote...

 
My problem is that there's too many shows that portray humanity as the super underdogs, the weakest of the factions or the smallest in the group and often trying to suck up to the xenos.  I don't know what got into sci-fi writers in the past decade or so but it gets old fast like games set "in a post-apocalyptic world..."<_<

1. The underdog trope will always be popular (although personally, I'm somewhat skeptical about it since the typical show with humanity as underdog pretty much goes out of its way to highligt how the human is actually awesome).

2. There aren't ANY Western SF I know of that has "humanity sucking up to the xenos". Again name them...I know of many Humans vs aliens shows and games but humans actually working and trying to live peacefully with aliens?

No, that's pretty rare ESPECIALLY in the last decade among Western media...not sure about anime/manga though as I do remember a lot more works ("Crest of the Stars, Tenchi Muyo etc) where one could say humans were sucking up to the xeno.

Shows like Falling Skies and Defiance are clearly, "aliens bad, humans good" show.

3. OH MY WORD....I do agree with you though 100% on the post-apocalyptic trope overload...seriously, how many games in the last  5 years are set in a post-apocalyptic setting? I swear, it's becoming an epidemic and frankly the most over developed setting cliche going on in videogames.

Modifié par Bleachrude, 10 août 2013 - 05:01 .

[Astartes Marine]

KaiserShep wrote...
Eh, the old BSG was cheesy as hell. Besides, new Adama > old Adama.

That was the point though, the creators knew it was cheesy and they embraced it.  Made it fun to watch, like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon. 
The new one felt like it was too forced especially with the religion and inferred time travelling and that god awful hippie ending.  Like it had to invent new kinds of drama and cram them into your face.
It had it's good moments though, but those were mostly flashbacks from the war like Raptor Talon in Razor.  I did like Blood and Chrome however, but again it was during the war.

And it's hard to outshine Lorne Greene. 

[Bleachrude]

I agree with Astartes about nuBSG....the last couple of seasons you pretty much hated everyone on the show and every time you watched it, it seemed a case of who can be the bigger douche and inject more DRAMA into the storyline....

[Red Panda]

The Alliance has the citadel. It's at Earth.

Of course, the alliance also had Batarian refugees, which was of course initially thought to be an invasion due to their numbers, that, provided at least a bit survived, will bolster the population on worlds in System Alliance space.

No matter what, it will be Earth-centric, though I predict the Systems Alliance will evolve to a multi-racial conglomerate, not a human one.

Take for example, the N7 Special Ops, a multi-racial group commanded and deployed by Systems Alliance officers.

If anything, the state of the galaxy could be compared to the end of WWI, the fall of nationalistic imperialism. I expect to see multi-racial conglomerates forming acorss council and terminus space as a result of the precedent set by the Reaper War.

I see the Alliance becoming dominant because of the newfound positioning and placement of the center of the seat of power of the council. Do I expect it to be multi-racial with the precedent of working together set by the Reaper War? Absolutely.

[Astartes Marine]

Bleachrude wrote...
Tenchi Muyo

Oh fond memories of that from my younger years, always liked Ryoko. 
Problem with that show was there was far too much with the sucking off of Jurai's organ; the arrogant, pompous, egotistical empire that rules the galaxy and they're made out to be the bestest ever and that nobody should ever question them.
Always wanted to see their empire in flames. 

Bleachrude wrote...
Shows like Falling Skies and Defiance are clearly, "aliens bad, humans good" show

They're also made out to be "aliens superior, humans inferior" whether it be in technology / numbers / civilization / etc.  The Defiance game makes that clear with the Votan technology like their combat mechs and teleporters, not to mention the Castithan superiority complex that's larger than our moon that is also present in the show.

[HellbirdIV]

The Systems Alliance only exists as its military by the end of ME3. All core political institutions were annihilated at Arcturus, then Udina's coup at the Citadel put humanity down as a political force on the Council.

Humans were also the species hit most by the Reaper harvest. Even more so than the batarians, even more so than the turians. Apparently Harbinger can hold a hell of a grudge.

The asari and salarians still have their technological and economic powerhouse bases, but with the political status quo turned on its head after ME3 I think that, while they will remain dominant, the exact nature of said dominance will be somewhat less strict than previously, possibly expanding the Citadel Council to incorporate more species in a broader, more democratic assembly.

[Fixers0]

Reasonably, although, the incompetence of the Military in Mass Effect is utterly baffling, the Alliance at least seemed smart enough to abbandon, the conflict all-together and bunker up in some secret star system were the Reapers can't find them, the reason for that being that an even-dumber person by the name of Shepard is willing to clean up all the Alliance's problems.

[Bleachrude]

If you hate the Jurai in Tenchi, you'll absolutely despise the Abh in Crest/Banner of the stars.

Still, I think there's a difference between how aliens are presented in a work like V versus something like Tenchi Muyo. The latter, the audience is clearly supposed to wish humans were like the jurai whereas the former has the audience waiting with baited breath for the aliens to get their comeuppance.

As an aside, I once heard that beside the **** allegory V uses, the original V series was also a reaction to the amount of friendly aliens that had been appearing in media such as ET and Close encounters of a third kind. (Heh, I wonder how many BSNers actually remember watching the original V - with 3 channels, the V miniseries was HUGE)

[HellbirdIV]

StreetMagic wrote...

The only good angle I see about a dominant Alliance is how uptight the galaxy would be.. everyone saluting, tucking their shirts in, and having dorky haircuts.

They would be Space Natzies.

But at least their uniforms would be fabulous!

[dead_goon]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Actually the Asari Republics would still be dominant.

Im not sure about that, once it got out ( which it inevitabley would do ) that the Asari had been uplifted by the Protheans, and had chosen to keep the Prothean knowledge a state secret to gain a significant advantage over the other races, there would be utter hell to pay, i'm not so sure the other races would "allow" the Asari to resume a dominant posture in galactic politics/commerce once again.

[Barquiel]

Han Shot First wrote...

Earth is the first Council world hit, but I do wonder whether or not more damage may have been done to the Turians. Ironically Earth may have benefitted in organized military resistance having collapsed not long after the Reapers invaded, with the resistance being at a lower intensity than on Palaven. On Palaven the Reapers were never quite able to break organized military resistance, to the point that the Reapers had to resort to more wide spread bombardment of cities than they did with Earth. Also with the Turians (and later, Krogan) engaged in prolonged, pitched battles with Reaper forces on Palaven, there was probably more widespread collateral damage than there was on Earth. All of Palaven was kind of looking like Stalingrad.

I agree. An atmosphere which is a breathing hazard is probably not a good long term prospect for healthy living. I guess the use of nuclear weapons against the Reapers did serious harm to the environment as well.

[HellbirdIV]

dead_goon wrote...

i'm not so sure the other races would "allow" the Asari to resume a dominant posture in galactic politics/commerce once again.

They don't really have a choice, just like the modern Western world doesn't have a choice in which Middle Eastern dictatorships have all the oil we need, and we can't just refuse to trade with China or Russia no matter what we think of their politics.

The asari economy is several orders of magnitude greater than those of most Citadel races, and still larger than even the most powerful of their "equals", the salarians and volus. Their technology is incredibly advanced and their warships are the largest and most powerful non-Reaper ships in the galaxy.

If you cut yourself off from asari supplies of Eezo and their centuries-old master craftsmen and scientists... Well, that just puts you at a disadvantage compared to whoever doesn't do that.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 10 août 2013 - 07:13 .

[dead_goon]

HellbirdIV wrote...

dead_goon wrote...

i'm not so sure the other races would "allow" the Asari to resume a dominant posture in galactic politics/commerce once again.

They don't really have a choice, just like the modern Western world doesn't have a choice in which Middle Eastern dictatorships have all the oil we need, and we can't just refuse to trade with China or Russia no matter what we think of their politics.

The asari economy is several orders of magnitude greater than those of most Citadel races, and still larger than even the most powerful of their "equals", the salarians and volus. Their technology is incredibly advanced and their warships are the largest and most powerful non-Reaper ships in the galaxy.

If you cut yourself off from asari supplies of Eezo and their centuries-old master craftsmen and scientists... Well, that just puts you at a disadvantage compared to whoever doesn't do that.

They most cetainly do have a choice, rightly or wrongly, the other races would presume that the advanced Prothean knowledge the Asari received could, and wouldve helped in the fight against the Reapers, worst case scenario, the Asari could well wind up facing a hostile galaxy with no allies, and all the other races united screaming for there blood due to the Asari's selfishness.

There would be a price to pay for keeping that Prothean knowledge to themselves, if all the other races did unite against the Asari, if they wanted something from the Asari, i'm pretty sure they'd take it come what may.

[Fixers0]

HellbirdIV wrote...
The asari economy is several orders of magnitude greater than those of most Citadel races, and still larger than even the most powerful of their "equals", the salarians and volus. Their technology is incredibly advanced and their warships are the largest and most powerful non-Reaper ships in the galaxy.

If you cut yourself off from asari supplies of Eezo and their centuries-old master craftsmen and scientists... Well, that just puts you at a disadvantage compared to whoever doesn't do that.

Yo, just headcannon going wild, say that again once your dreadnought is outclassed by two of our cruisers.

[HellbirdIV]

dead_goon wrote...

There would be a price to pay for keeping that Prothean knowledge to themselves, if all the other races did unite against the Asari, if they wanted something from the Asari, i'm pretty sure they'd take it come what may.

They would lose. The asari had the second largest warfleet prior to the Reaper war, then the turians were completley ravaged during the war while the asari fleet only got involved in the war in its late stages.

Combine that with their technological superiority and biotic infantry, and any victory against the asari would come at too high a price for any of the other races except maybe the krogan, and the krogan have no warships.

You assume that the species of the galaxy want to rush off to another war after the Reapers destroyed pretty much everything, for such petty reasons as revenge? I find that unlikely, and if we have an interregnum period then the asari have plenty of resources with which to rebuild, that the others - well, the others would have to trade with the asari to get them.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 10 août 2013 - 08:12 .

[Bleachrude]

Hell...which of the two guards mentions this?

"Oh yeah, that's real smart, start a next war right after this one".

(I really liked those guards...)

[HellbirdIV]

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. I forget which guard is which though, their voices sound the same <.<

[HellbirdIV]

Honestly I don't want the next Mass Effect to be about a war.

The best game in the series so far is Mass Effect 2, which was smaller in scope and played to the series' strengths with character focus, world-building and unique set-pieces, all of which were overshadowed by the war in ME3.