154 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

It's doubtful that anyone would fault the Turians for their focus on military strength. Earth was attacked at the start of the war too, so what does that say about the humans?

My point being that the Reapers would steamroll everyone regardless of their culture.

It's established in the game that Shepard sends reports back to the Alliance for Hackett or whoever else is in command for review after each mission. There's no reason to think that he/she would make an exception for the Prothean beacon that was [illegally] hidden from the public on Thessia. I certainly wouldn't leave that juicy tidbit of information out of any report, because that would be ridiculous.

I sure as hell would. I'm using my discretion as a Spectre, and I see no reason to divulge information that would damage galactic stability with no real payoff.

[shodiswe]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Actually the Asari Republics would still be dominant. Nevos surrendered rather than suffer bombardment. The codex and the game show no population loss or (pre-invasion) population. Once the reapers decided to no longer tangle with the Asari fleets and land. It was pretty much over. Not much Commandos can do against 2 km tall ships. The fighting was intense only on Thessia. Many of their worlds still had their infrastructure intact, and they didn't fall until late.

In a destroy ending. They'd be able to get the relays repaired and commerce re-established in their systems the quickest.

In my playthrough Nevos was blownup by their own nuclear weapons to avoid capture by the Reapers. Their planetary population was then Zero.
Unless you are talkign about a different planet than  think you were taliking about, I meant the oen that Liara was talking about with Glyph.

Modifié par shodiswe, 13 août 2013 - 02:44 .

[shodiswe]

HellbirdIV wrote...

The Systems Alliance only exists as its military by the end of ME3. All core political institutions were annihilated at Arcturus, then Udina's coup at the Citadel put humanity down as a political force on the Council.

Humans were also the species hit most by the Reaper harvest. Even more so than the batarians, even more so than the turians. Apparently Harbinger can hold a hell of a grudge.

The asari and salarians still have their technological and economic powerhouse bases, but with the political status quo turned on its head after ME3 I think that, while they will remain dominant, the exact nature of said dominance will be somewhat less strict than previously, possibly expanding the Citadel Council to incorporate more species in a broader, more democratic assembly.

The human government is elective, if a few falls others will replace them.

One of the pros of a democratic elective state, the leaders are expendible.

Modifié par shodiswe, 13 août 2013 - 02:51 .

[KaiserShep]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's established in the game that Shepard sends reports back to the Alliance for Hackett or whoever else is in command for review after each mission. There's no reason to think that he/she would make an exception for the Prothean beacon that was [illegally] hidden from the public on Thessia. I certainly wouldn't leave that juicy tidbit of information out of any report, because that would be ridiculous.

I sure as hell would. I'm using my discretion as a Spectre, and I see no reason to divulge information that would damage galactic stability with no real payoff.

I don't see how letting others know about it would be to anyone's detriment other than the Asari government. I guess we'll never see eye to eye on this, because as I see it, with the Council's insufferable ineptitude, i'd gladly air out all of their dirty laundry and let the fallout run its course.

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's established in the game that Shepard sends reports back to the Alliance for Hackett or whoever else is in command for review after each mission. There's no reason to think that he/she would make an exception for the Prothean beacon that was [illegally] hidden from the public on Thessia. I certainly wouldn't leave that juicy tidbit of information out of any report, because that would be ridiculous.

I sure as hell would. I'm using my discretion as a Spectre, and I see no reason to divulge information that would damage galactic stability with no real payoff.

I don't see how letting others know about it would be to anyone's detriment other than the Asari government. I guess we'll never see eye to eye on this, because as I see it, with the Council's insufferable ineptitude, i'd gladly air out all of their dirty laundry and let the fallout run its course.

Because it would inevitably fall upon the entire asari race, which doesn't deserve that.

[shodiswe]

The alliance will have a huge political and economical boost from the ending after ME3 with the citadel positioned over earth with a permanent teleporter between the citadel and earth for people to go planetside or for people planetside to visit the citadel.

London will probably become a second home for a lot of people working on the citadel... It would become a suburb of the Citadel. The proximity of earth will also influence a lot of influential people aroudn the galaxy.
It will become a center of political and economical power in the galaxy.

A little bit like coruscant in Starwars I'm thinking.

The power of each species though will depend on many factors.
The Geth if they are still around will have a great deal more acceptance and likely influence given their contribution during the Reaper war. I expect theQuarians might be somewhat more well regarded aswell unless they were nearly wiped out as a species over Rannoch in their crazy war.

The Salarian passive stance during the war will have affected other peoples "opinion" about them, even if they came out on top due to avoiding most of the war. Their financial gain from not taking that mcuh of a hit might fade 50+ years into the future and become irrellevant as the rest of the galaxy recovers unless they decide to begin their conquest before the others recover.

Krogans? /shrug, whatever, it will take some time before they can become a real power, but their aid, assuming that's what happend will have bought them a little bit more acceptance from the rest of the galaxy, just like the Geth and Quarians.

Every species that sent help to the crusible project will try to capitalize on their "achivement". When I think about it the Volus did more than several of the other minor species like the Hanar or Elcor.
We don't know how many Reaperships the Hanar homeworld defencenet destroyed though. Might have bought the others some time when the Reapers lost a fleet.

[Xilizhra]

The alliance will have a huge political and economical boost from the ending after ME3 with the citadel positioned over earth with a permanent teleporter between the citadel and earth for people to go planetside or for people planetside to visit the citadel.

Oh, no, I'm moving it back to its original spot.

[Astartes Marine]

KaiserShep wrote...
It's established in the game that Shepard sends reports back to the Alliance for Hackett or whoever else is in command for review after each mission. There's no reason to think that he/she would make an exception for the Prothean beacon that was [illegally] hidden from the public on Thessia. I certainly wouldn't leave that juicy tidbit of information out of any report, because that would be ridiculous.

Nor would I.  The law about hording Prothean tech, the same law that carries stiff penalties, applies to ALL.  That includes the Asari, just because they're supposedly the best diplomats and have alot of political clout DOES NOT excuse them from the law.  They would face their punishment just as anyone else would and justice will be served. 

It's especially damning that if the Asari hadn't hidden the beacon or had revealed it earlier, who knows how many millions of lives could have been spared...the whole war itself might have been avoided in the first place. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 13 août 2013 - 03:30 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

The alliance will have a huge political and economical boost from the ending after ME3 with the citadel positioned over earth with a permanent teleporter between the citadel and earth for people to go planetside or for people planetside to visit the citadel.

Oh, no, I'm moving it back to its original spot.

Sucks for you.... Earth, with Shepard's private group in the background to push things along, will become the new galactic capital system. With the Citadel so close to Earth, Earth will obviously benefit greatly. 

Humans, naturally and over time, will become quite widespread, but Shepard and his new Cerberus will make sure things progress at a fairly equal pace for all races.

The Asari are going to have to endure several generations of distrust and suspicion. No one is going to trust them after the Prothean Beacon is discovered.

Later, we might move the Citadel back to it's original spot... By then, Earth will have so much growth and industry and investment from other races due to political and economic importance that it will essentially be the most important world in the galaxy.

Suck it Thessia.

[Barquiel]

KaiserShep wrote...

It's established in the game that Shepard sends reports back to the Alliance for Hackett or whoever else is in command for review after each mission. There's no reason to think that he/she would make an exception for the Prothean beacon that was [illegally] hidden from the public on Thessia. I certainly wouldn't leave that juicy tidbit of information out of any report, because that would be ridiculous.

That's not always the case. Take, for example, the genophage cure. If Shepard sabotages it, she doesn't inform Hackett ("Careful diplomacy"). I had the impression Hackett doesn't know any details about the mission on Thessia. My Shepard wouldn't reveal it...and everyone who knows about the beacon is dead (TIM, Kai Leng), or has no interest in revealing the truth (Liara, Tevos). This issue will more than likely be thrown under the rug.

Modifié par Barquiel, 13 août 2013 - 03:56 .

[KaiserShep]

There's quite a lot more on the line regarding revealing the cure's sabotage. Getting word to the wrong person could make the difference between whether or not Palaven gets support, and in turn Turian support for Earth, assuming that Wreav is in charge, in which case no one knows except maybe Garrus. This is not true of revealing the nature of the Asari's possession of the Prothean beacon to Alliance command, because this wouldn't be an issue for them to contend with until the reapers are dead and gone, in which case whatever happens after that is simply not my concern. If politicians want to keep their secrets, that's fine, but when those secrets could spell extinction for everyone, all bets are off.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 août 2013 - 04:05 .

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The alliance will have a huge political and economical boost from the ending after ME3 with the citadel positioned over earth with a permanent teleporter between the citadel and earth for people to go planetside or for people planetside to visit the citadel.

Oh, no, I'm moving it back to its original spot.

Sucks for you.... Earth, with Shepard's private group in the background to push things along, will become the new galactic capital system. With the Citadel so close to Earth, Earth will obviously benefit greatly. 

Humans, naturally and over time, will become quite widespread, but Shepard and his new Cerberus will make sure things progress at a fairly equal pace for all races.

The Asari are going to have to endure several generations of distrust and suspicion. No one is going to trust them after the Prothean Beacon is discovered.

Later, we might move the Citadel back to it's original spot... By then, Earth will have so much growth and industry and investment from other races due to political and economic importance that it will essentially be the most important world in the galaxy.

Suck it Thessia.

I somehow don't think a series about the integration of humans into the galactic community with said community ultimately standing together against the Reapers was right for you. It's sort of like seeing Avatar and coming away with a new appreciation for colonialism and genocide.

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
I somehow don't think a series about the integration of humans into the galactic community with said community ultimately standing together against the Reapers was right for you. It's sort of like seeing Avatar and coming away with a new appreciation for colonialism and genocide.

Ultimately standing together?  Yeah.
Asaria and Salarians dragging their heals being the last to join the fight, one of which was withholding information that could have been crucial, and it was, to the war effort? Also yes.

As for Avatar, I came away from Avatar wondering why I spent all that money to see a ****ty movie that was a poor copy of Dances with Wolves.  I also failed to see why I should suddenly support the blue people over my own damn species.

[Xilizhra]

Ultimately standing together? Yeah.
Asaria and Salarians dragging their heals being the last to join the fight, one of which was withholding information that could have been crucial, and it was, to the war effort? Also yes.

Lies. Both join the fight before the quarians, the geth, the elcor and the volus. So really, only humans, turians, krogan and batarians join before them; three of them were outright attacked by the Reapers almost immediately upon their arrival, and the last required blatant and politically dubious pandering to get them to join. In short, no one really acted differently. Also, the asari race was not involved in any coverup, only a few members of their government; the fallout should not land on the race as a whole.

As for Avatar, I came away from Avatar wondering why I spent all that money to see a ****ty movie that was a poor copy of Dances with Wolves. I also failed to see why I should suddenly support the blue people over my own damn species.

Because you're thinking in false dichotomy terms, as many members of your own species sided with the blue people, and the ones trying to wipe them all out were evil imperialists.

[KaiserShep]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I somehow don't think a series about the integration of humans into the galactic community with said community ultimately standing together against the Reapers was right for you. It's sort of like seeing Avatar and coming away with a new appreciation for colonialism and genocide.

Ultimately standing together?  Yeah.
Asaria and Salarians dragging their heals being the last to join the fight, one of which was withholding information that could have been crucial, and it was, to the war effort? Also yes.

To the Asari's defense, even before the beacon incident, you can acquire quite a bit of Asari support for the war, so even if their government is at fault for the Crucible's delay in completion, the Asari in general are already adding far more assets to the war effort than the Salarians.

As for Avatar, I came away from Avatar wondering why I spent all that money to see a ****ty movie that was a poor copy of Dances with Wolves.  I also failed to see why I should suddenly support the blue people over my own damn species.

I liked the movie, but honestly, if I had to choose between my species and aliens, my species would win every time. From the original script, however, Earth was a serious mess. Lots of mammalian life was extinct, pollution was running rampant, and the earth was covered in huge sprawling cities with terrible living conditions, etc..

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
Lies. Both join the fight before the quarians, the geth, the elcor and the volus.

Fact, we did not recieve the full support of the Asari or Salarians until near the end.  Sure a cruiser here, a frigate there if you're scanning star systems for more assets, but we did not recieve the bulk of it until later, their leadership were dragging their heels when time was of the essence.

So yes you're right in a way, at least the more sensible of those two races like Major Kirahe joined the fight early on. 

Xilizhra wrote...
Also, the asari
race was not involved in any coverup, only a few members of their government; the fallout should not land on the race as a whole.

Irrelevant.  Their leadership hid Prothean relics from the rest of the galaxy, they broke the law, justice must and should be served.  I never said nor did I intend to imply that I think the whole race should suffer, but that will inevitably happen because of the blatent disregard for the law shown by their leadership.  It would happen invariably to any race found hiding Prothean relics and are punished for it.

Xilizhra wrote...
Because you're thinking in false
dichotomy terms, as many members of your own species sided with the blue
people, and the ones trying to wipe them all out were evil
imperialists.

Yes the poorly written characters that might have been extras for all they did.  The only one that is given significant screentime to even begin developing a character is Jake and even then the studio made the cheap grab for sympathy because he was crippled and he could walk in the avatar.

While it is regrettable that hollywood decided to be stupid like they often are and portrayed man as a a stereotypical brutish invader on an alien world so they could make a pretentious and badly written movie, the goal of the humans I am fully okay with. 
The mineral they were mining, the comedically named "unobtanium" is revealed in the backstory and lore to be absolutely necessary for the survival of the human race, being an incredibly long lasting room temperature superconductor and essential for power generation/space travel/food production/etc.  This background information also reveals that Earth is a mined out husk that is covered in mega cities and the human race is currently in an energy crisis the likes of which have never been seen. 

Essentially the details that the movie conveniently left out tell of a human race that could very well in the stages of dying out (actual extinction) instead of just the greedy corporate bull****ters with their private merc army that it did have.



So in a situation where we have to mine their planet just to survive, yes I side with my own species in a bloody heartbeat. 

[Xilizhra]

Fact, we did not recieve the full support of the Asari or Salarians until near the end. Sure a cruiser here, a frigate there if you're scanning star systems for more assets, but we did not recieve the bulk of it until later, their leadership were dragging their heels when time was of the essence.

Remarkably wrong. Both join in full after the coup, which happens more or less immediately after Tuchanka if you're not sequence breaking.

Irrelevant. Their leadership hid Prothean relics from the rest of the galaxy, they broke the law, justice must and should be served. I never said nor did I intend to imply that I think the whole race should suffer, but that will inevitably happen because of the blatent disregard for the law shown by their leadership. It would happen invariably to any race found hiding Prothean relics and are punished for it.

Hence why you're more concerned with vengeance, which seems largely motivated by pride, than actual justice, which is the ultimate best outcome for the galaxy as a whole. Which seems a regrettably common affliction.

While it is regrettable that hollywood decided to be stupid like they often are and portrayed man as a a stereotypical brutish invader on an alien world so they could make a pretentious and badly written movie, the goal of the humans I am fully okay with.
The mineral they were mining, the comedically named "unobtanium" is revealed in the backstory and lore to be absolutely necessary for the survival of the human race, being an incredibly long lasting room temperature superconductor and essential for power generation/space travel/food production/etc. This background information also reveals that Earth is a mined out husk that is covered in mega cities and the human race is currently in an energy crisis the likes of which have never been seen.

If you take the absolute most sympathetic interpretation possible that you've just done, then it becomes a morally neutral battle for survival on both sides. But seeing as how humans ****ed up Earth and seem about to do the same to Pandora, I can hardly blame people for siding with a race that's not innately self-destructive.

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
Remarkably wrong. Both join in full after the coup, which happens more or less immediately after Tuchanka if you're not sequence breaking.

Hmm, they've always been the last for me.

Xilizhra wrote...
Hence why you're more concerned
with vengeance, which seems largely motivated by pride, than actual
justice, which is the ultimate best outcome for the galaxy as a whole.
Which seems a regrettably common affliction.

Seriously?  From what orifice did you just pull the assumption that I'm out for vengeance? 
Is it because I'm not lenient on your precious little favorites and would not give them any special treatment? 

They would be subject to the law just like anyone else, this is not a question of vengeance at all despite your delusions.  The Asari are bound by the law just like any species.  If the Humans/Turians/Salarians/etc were the ones to be hiding the beacon they would recieve the same. 

Xilizhra wrote...
If you take the absolute most sympathetic interpretation possible

Wow, it's not that hard...well maybe it is for you.

Xilizhra wrote...
But seeing as how humans ****ed up Earth and
seem about to do the same to Pandora, I can hardly blame people for
siding with a race that's not innately self-destructive.

Somehow I'm not at all surprised that you would support a race other than your very own.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...
It's sort of like seeing Avatar and coming away with a new appreciation for colonialism and genocide.

Considering hamfisted that loathsome movie is, I sided with the PMC out of spite of the movie itself.

Besides, the colonel was so comically over-the-top you can't help but admire him.

[Xilizhra]

Hmm, they've always been the last for me.

This might have something to do with Council status.

Seriously? From what orifice did you just pull the assumption that I'm out for vengeance?
Is it because I'm not lenient on your precious little favorites and would not give them any special treatment?

Well, for one thing, your username is indicative of a universe where true justice is about as common as unicorn farts; indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if they were literally the same thing. However, it's also because you completely disregard the well-being of trillions of people for the sake of a rather trite pursuit of redress committed by people who are almost certainly dead anyway, in the name of THE LUAWGH (say it like Stallone).

Somehow I'm not at all surprised that you would support a race other than your very own.

Wow, genetic commonality! I feel so communal all of a sudden. If a chimpanzee attacks a dog, I assume now I side with the chimp automatically because of genetic similarity; similarly, if an armadillo were to abruptly start attacking flowers I'd planted, I would have to side with the armadillo because it's in the animal kingdom and hence genetically closer. Also, I must side with blood relatives over other humans, and clones of myself over everyone else if they ever show up.

[KaiserShep]

Xilizhra wrote...
Wow, genetic commonality! I feel so communal all of a sudden. If a chimpanzee attacks a dog, I assume now I side with the chimp automatically because of genetic similarity; similarly, if an armadillo were to abruptly start attacking flowers I'd planted, I would have to side with the armadillo because it's in the animal kingdom and hence genetically closer. Also, I must side with blood relatives over other humans, and clones of myself over everyone else if they ever show up.

I wouldn't say that this is an apt comparison, largely because these examples are isolated to individuals, and not to entire species. If the fate of two species hang in the balance, one of which is your own, it's more than likely that your ties to your own species would take precedence. It's only natural.

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Wow, genetic commonality! I feel so communal all of a sudden. If a chimpanzee attacks a dog, I assume now I side with the chimp automatically because of genetic similarity; similarly, if an armadillo were to abruptly start attacking flowers I'd planted, I would have to side with the armadillo because it's in the animal kingdom and hence genetically closer. Also, I must side with blood relatives over other humans, and clones of myself over everyone else if they ever show up.

I wouldn't say that this is an apt comparison, largely because these examples are isolated to individuals, and not to entire species. If the fate of two species hang in the balance, one of which is your own, it's more than likely that your ties to your own species would take precedence. It's only natural.

The point is that I consider genetics a crappy determinant of allegiance. I'll side with whomever is the most worthy, regardless of how much our chromosomes have in common.

[Barquiel]

KaiserShep wrote...

There's quite a lot more on the line regarding revealing the cure's sabotage. Getting word to the wrong person could make the difference between whether or not Palaven gets support, and in turn Turian support for Earth, assuming that Wreav is in charge, in which case no one knows except maybe Garrus. This is not true of revealing the nature of the Asari's possession of the Prothean beacon to Alliance command, because this wouldn't be an issue for them to contend with until the reapers are dead and gone, in which case whatever happens after that is simply not my concern. If politicians want to keep their secrets, that's fine, but when those secrets could spell extinction for everyone, all bets are off.

Hm, I disagree. I think there are more important things to do than point fingers, like rebuilding the galaxy.

I mean...the quarians started their little war with the geth before anything else. The salarian dalatrass doesn't seem worried about the Reapers at all. We also have Udina's coup and cerberus' crimes...

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, for one thing, your username is indicative of a universe where true justice is about as common as unicorn farts

My username is not relevant to this.  You're silly for even trying that.

Xilizhra wrote...
However, it's also because you completely disregard the
well-being of trillions of people for the sake of a rather trite pursuit
of redress committed by people who are almost certainly dead anyway

The Asari hoarded Prothean tech and kept it to themselves rather than sharing with the galaxy and helping the larger whole, breaking a very strict law that carries a severe punishment.  Despite the people who initially made the decision being dead, the Asari leadership continued to keep it hidden knowing full well that they were breaking a very serious law.

Sure let's handwave that and ignore it...because blue space pole dancers?  Why even laws anyway if you're not going to enforce them.

You don't blame the police for enforcing the law, you blame the criminal that forced the hand of the law.  The Asari should look to their leaders to point the blame.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 13 août 2013 - 05:20 .

[Xilizhra]

The Asari hoarded Prothean tech and kept it to themselves rather than sharing with the galaxy and helping the larger whole, breaking a very strict law that carries a severe punishment. Despite the people who initially made the decision, the Asari leadership continued to keep it hidden knowing full well that they were breaking a very serious law.

Sure let's handwave that and ignore it...because blue space pole dancers? Why even laws anyway if you're not going to enforce them.

Because there's literally no one to punish. Everyone involved is dead. And if there are any survivors, they'd have to be individually investigated and their guilt individually proven in individual trials... which would have to wait until the galaxy was rebuilt... and then, it would have to be the old Council system being put in place again, because the crime was committed under its jurisdiction, and anyone else trying to hold such a trial would be going heavily out of their own.