337 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobalt2113]

shingara wrote...

One thing always struck me with synthesis, even though ive always felt it was a trap. If its not what happens to free will if all memory etc is a shared consciousness.

When does it say all memory is a shared consciousness?

All I remember it saying is that they have access to sum of the reapers' stored knowledge.

[LiL Reapur]

Brannon wrote...

It doesn't matter if we're done with Shepard or not, what matters is the ending Shepard chose. I can't see Synergy working as a "canon" ending for obvious reasons. In my mind, this is indeed space magic and a nod to fairy tale endings. Even though I chose it first (out of curiosity, but I did save with the intent to immediately see the other endings) it's clear to me that that ending is not only the ending to Shepard's story, but the story of the Mass Effect universe. Without conflict, there is no story or drama. Also, it always struck me as a bit creepy and unsettling. This would be a complex and hard to understand status quo for new fans and I don't see Bioware or EA going that route.

Control is also a dead end for me. Shepard is now a seemingly benevolent AI god that controls a vast fleet of Reapers that go on to repair every relay, planet, etc, and constantly watch over and defend the "many." Would the Shepalyst even allow conflict between organic species? Not that war is a good thing, of course, but taking away any "right" limits conflict and thus limits story potential. It's also a bit too "high concept" to use as a status quo for new fans, though that's debatable.

Destroy is the only ending that makes sense to me. The only aspect of it that's unappealing to most players (particularly paragons that did everything right by the krogan, quarians, geth, etc) is the destruction of the geth (and of course EDI). But, remember, the Cataylst and Hackett both clearly point out that anything that was destroyed would be rebuilt. It also raises many interesting possibilities. Would AI's be held in even more suspicion now? Would the altruistic actions of EDI and the "soul" geth make organics think differently? Would the quarian's consider rebuilding them? Of course this is the only ending where it's possible to see Shepard at the end, possibly with a chance of living, so you can't help but feel that Bioware's hints point to this to be the best possible outcome for future games. While sacrifice is made, it's the only of the three main options that leaves everyones free will and right to choose firmly intact. This is an appealing philosophy for obvious reasons.

The fourth "do nothing" option is the least appealing. There are some aspects about it that make sense to me, but overall it simply can't work. All advance life is wiped out and I don't see Bioware setting a game 50,000 years in the future. This just breaks with the overall "not that far off..." feel of Mass Effect.

This of course assumes that Bioware has to choose just one ending to be the status quo going forward. I can't see how anything other than Destroy provides an appropriate setting for non-prequels, but if Bioware pulled off being able to incorporate all possible endings, I'd like to see it.

That last paragraph is spot on nice interpretation Brannon

[shingara]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

When does it say all memory is a shared consciousness?

All I remember it saying is that they have access to sum of the reapers' stored knowledge.

 Well ye admitadly its an assumption on my part but its based upon the fact that as organics will take more from the deal then synthetics that things like the geth hive mind and the reaper hive mind is what the situation will be under synthesis. Thus how such huge knowledge is gained and how they state to evolve beyond just organics and synthetics to a level yet unknown.

[Brannon]

shingara wrote...

One thing always struck me with synthesis, even though ive always felt it was a trap. If its not what happens to free will if all memory etc is a shared consciousness.

It can't be what it seems. Why is every organic not freaking out about suddenly glowing green, having synthetic abilities (whatever they are) and having their DNA altered? It obviously had to have a profound affect on the mentality and percpetions of all organics. Not just that, but what effect would it have on non-sapient organics like common animals, insects, etc? How would they handle such a change? DO we now have a bunch of friendly, green-glowing thresher maws to help us rebuild now too? Did this have any effect on VI's and simple machines, or only true AI's? A ton of questions.

Modifié par Brannon, 11 août 2013 - 09:44 .

[NeonFlux117]

Not.Going.To.Happen..... Never, ever. EVER.

[Seival]

Ravensword wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...
 MEU without the Reapers

How is that a bad thing?

MEU without the Reapers. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Mass Relays. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Element Zero. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without the Geth. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Krogan. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Rachni. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Turians. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Asari. How is that a bad thing?
...

They are all equally important questions. Should I continue?

Each and every major feature makes the game as it is. Removing the Reapers would be the same as removing Asari.

Simple thing - never remove unique races from the game. Add new unique races in addition to existing ones. And the only ending that actually creates a new race is Synthesis (the race of awakened VIs - the ghosts).

Well, Seival, I hear that the next MEU game is pretty much gonna be a reboot. I can't be bothered at this time to find the article in which CHud talks about what sounds like is gonna be a reboot b/c I'm lazy.

ME w/o the Reapers or Asari wouldn't be a bad thing. The first are an all-powerful space Cthulhus and the second are the typical, novelty space babes.

Reboot is nothing but a rumor or misunderstanding.

We all have already seen BioWare attitude towards remaking something in their stories. So believe me, reboot is not going to happen.


Ok, let's remove all aliens, jedi, and robots from the SW. You can still call what remains a SW, I suppose, but I believe SW fans will become quite angry about such change.

You can't remove from a story features that makes that story. And I believe BioWare understands that. The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

[AlanC9]

Seival wrote...
You can't remove from a story features that makes that story. And I believe BioWare understands that. The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

Would dead Reapers count for this?

[Zazzerka]

AlanC9 wrote...

Would dead Reapers count for this?

Seems like an acceptable loophole in Seival's Law.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I look forward to Seival's crushed hopes and dreams of a Reaper utopia.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 02:00 .

[Seival]

AlanC9 wrote...

Seival wrote...
You can't remove from a story features that makes that story. And I believe BioWare understands that. The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

Would dead Reapers count for this?

Well, considering the Derelict Reaper in ME2 - yes.
 
Hmm... I suppose there is a way how post-destroy can work and look quite exotic. Planets full of Derelict Reapers. Half of the remaining survivors gone insane because of the dead Reapers' influence, and trying to kill the last of hope for galactic civilization's survival. Uncontrolled indoctrination and harvesting produced the new sort of husks, much more horrible and powerful than the original ones. Scared and hopeless people are hiding inside the ruins and fighting each other for the remaining resources, knowing that the time when all organic life will gone is near.

Quite nice horror-survival atmosphere. And quite realistic post-destroy scenario.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I like the idea the no one bothered to clean up the dead Reapers.
"Admiral Hackett, should we maybe get rid of the debris from the war?"
"Nah, f*ck it. Just build the city around it."

This is too good an idea the next ME needs to be a parody just so we can include it.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 02:11 .

[Zazzerka]

Greylycantrope wrote...
This is too good an idea the next ME needs to be a parody just so we can include it.

My favourite part is that Hackett is mayor now.

SimCity 2186.

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...

I like the idea the no one bothered to clean up the dead Reapers.
"Admiral Hackett, should we maybe get rid of the debris from the war?"
"Nah, f*ck it. Just build the city around it."

This is too good an idea the next ME needs to be a parody just so we can include it.

Cleaning up the dead Reapers? Prohibit approaching them and studying them? Good luck with that.

If prohibition and precaution would work well in MEU, there would be no Geth, EDI and other AIs in the story.

[Seival]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seival wrote...

MEU without the Reapers. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Mass Relays. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Element Zero. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without the Geth. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Krogan. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Rachni. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Turians. How is that a bad thing?
MEU without Asari. How is that a bad thing?
...

My MEU no longer has the Reapers, rachni, or geth, and I don't consider that a bad thing at all.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Let's wait till BioWare will make a sequel, and then will talk about it 

[The Heretic of Time]

Greylycantrope wrote...

I like the idea the no one bothered to clean up the dead Reapers.
"Admiral Hackett, should we maybe get rid of the debris from the war?"
"Nah, f*ck it. Just build the city around it."

This is too good an idea the next ME needs to be a parody just so we can include it.

Mass Fallout Effect 4 coming to stores soon!

[Mr.House]

Comparing jedi to reapers is silly.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
Cleaning up the dead Reapers? Prohibit approaching them and studying them? Good luck with that.

If prohibition and precaution would work well in MEU, there would be no Geth, EDI and other AIs in the story.

Can't approach them if you throw all the wrecks into a black hole, or star.

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Mass Fallout Effect 4 coming to stores soon!

Pre-oder now to get a companion husk!

Zazzerka wrote...
My favourite part is that Hackett is mayor now.

SimCity 2186.

Well as far as I know all other ranking officals and political leaders are dead. Time for military rule.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 02:44 .

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

Comparing jedi to reapers is silly.

Not at all. Both are the huge parts of corresponding stories.

[Mr.House]

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Comparing jedi to reapers is silly.

Not at all. Both are the huge parts of corresponding stories.

You do know there is alot of stories in the SW verse that don't have jedi in them or the main focus, yes?

Also teh word you are looknig for is, universe or setting, not story. There is no such thing called Star Wars story. There is the Rebel vs Empire story, Jedi purge story ect though.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 août 2013 - 02:42 .

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...
Cleaning up the dead Reapers? Prohibit approaching them and studying them? Good luck with that.

If prohibition and precaution would work well in MEU, there would be no Geth, EDI and other AIs in the story.

Can't approach them if you throw all the wrecks into a black hole, or star.

Can't keep everyone out from all those millions of Derelict Reapers.
Can't throw all the wrecks into a black hole, or star without approaching them first.

Modifié par Seival, 11 août 2013 - 02:50 .

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Comparing jedi to reapers is silly.

Not at all. Both are the huge parts of corresponding stories.

You do know there is alot of stories in the SW verse that don't have jedi in them or the main focus, yes?

Also teh word you are looknig for is, universe or setting, not story. There is no such thing called Star Wars story. There is the Rebel vs Empire story, Jedi purge story ect though.

That doesn't mean there are no jedi in SWU.

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

 The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

No they don't.


Team Rocket didn't stay forever in Pokemon. New villains were introduced in the later Pokemon games, replacing Team Rocket.

The Arch Demon didn't stay forever in Dragon Age. New villains were introduced with DA2.

Sephiroth didn't stay forever in Final Fantasy.

Fontaine didn't stay forever in BioShock.

Etc. etc. etc. The list could go on forever.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
Can't keep everyone out from all those millions of Derelict Reapers.
Can't throw all the wrecks into a black hole, or star without approaching them first.

If a few people want to be indoctrinated that's their buisness, the universie was never devoid of a handful of crazy people.
What are people walking up close and lifting with the knees? We have ships to tow them that and mechs.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 02:59 .

[Sir DeLoria]

iakus wrote...

I was actually talking about Destroy, which to my mind is in fact a holocaust of all synthetic life.

I'm not sure what word would describe Synthesis, as it is so creepy and wired as to defy description

Synthetic "life". If destroying the Geth(who killed hundreds of millions of people) and EDI results in the destruction of the Reapers, I am more than willing to sacrifice them.

The Geth never make it past Rannoch for me anyway, so the decision is even easier. 

I said before, that I would have been in favor of a fourth solution, that not only destroys all synthetics, but makes the creation of new synthetics indefinitely impossible(reminiscent of Dune). This will prevent exactly what the Catalyst feared.