337 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

 The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

No they don't.


Team Rocket didn't stay forever in Pokemon. New villains were introduced in the later Pokemon games, replacing Team Rocket.

The Arch Demon didn't stay forever in Dragon Age. New villains were introduced with DA2.

Sephiroth didn't stay forever in Final Fantasy.

Fontaine didn't stay forever in BioShock.

Etc. etc. etc. The list could go on forever.

I don't care about the series I never played and will never play (like BioShock or FF for example).

But about DA2... Arch Deamon was one of the Darkspawn. And the Darkspawn never gone from DAU. Can you imagine DAU without the Darkspawn? Whithout the Fade? Without Demons and Spirits? I really doubt that. And the Reapers have the same value for MEU.

By the way. BioWare found a way to bring Flemeth back for DA2 no matter if you killed her or not in DA:O. It's a good trend. I think I shouldn't worry for the Reapers in case of sequel no matter which scenario exactly BioWare will choose.

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

 The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

No they don't.


Team Rocket didn't stay forever in Pokemon. New villains were introduced in the later Pokemon games, replacing Team Rocket.

The Arch Demon didn't stay forever in Dragon Age. New villains were introduced with DA2.

Sephiroth didn't stay forever in Final Fantasy.

Fontaine didn't stay forever in BioShock.

Etc. etc. etc. The list could go on forever.

I don't care about the series I never played and will never play (like BioShock or FF for example).

But about DA2... Arch Deamon was one of the Darkspawn. And the Darkspawn never gone from DAU. Can you imagine DAU without the Darkspawn? Whithout the Fade? Without Demons and Spirits? I really doubt that. And the Reapers have the same value for MEU.

I don't care that you don't care about the series I listed. My list of series with changing antagonists prove my point, that no matter how important an antagonist is at one point, it should not be a reason to retain the status quo. Eventually the status quo will be broken and the antagonist will be defeated, for good. Which will give room for new antagonists to rise up.

Team Rocket was as big of a part of Pokemon as the reapers are in the Mass Effect trilogy, yet Team Rocket got replaced by a new team of villains in Pokemon. I see on reason why the reapers can't be replaced in Mass Effect. The reapers are defeated, their story is over, finished, finito, the end. It's time for a new story with new villains.

You should play BioShock Infinite at least. If you loved The Last of Us, you'll love BioShock Infinite.

Seival wrote...

By the way. BioWare found a way to bring Flemeth back for DA2 no matter if you killed her or not in DA:O. It's a good trend. I think I shouldn't worry for the Reapers in case of sequel no matter which scenario exactly BioWare will choose.

No, it's a HORRIBLE trend because it invalidates player choices and it retains the status quo. Stories that retain a status quo for too long become stale and ultimately they're just plain boring. Change is good.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 11 août 2013 - 03:21 .

[Seival]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

 The Reapers have to stay in MEU forever.

No they don't.


Team Rocket didn't stay forever in Pokemon. New villains were introduced in the later Pokemon games, replacing Team Rocket.

The Arch Demon didn't stay forever in Dragon Age. New villains were introduced with DA2.

Sephiroth didn't stay forever in Final Fantasy.

Fontaine didn't stay forever in BioShock.

Etc. etc. etc. The list could go on forever.

I don't care about the series I never played and will never play (like BioShock or FF for example).

But about DA2... Arch Deamon was one of the Darkspawn. And the Darkspawn never gone from DAU. Can you imagine DAU without the Darkspawn? Whithout the Fade? Without Demons and Spirits? I really doubt that. And the Reapers have the same value for MEU.

By the way. BioWare found a way to bring Flemeth back for DA2 no matter if you killed her or not in DA:O. It's a good trend. I think I shouldn't worry for the Reapers in case of sequel no matter which scenario exactly BioWare will choose.

I don't care that you don't care about the series I listed. My list of series with changing antagonists prove my point, that no matter how important an antagonist is at one point, it should not be a reason to retain the status quo. Eventually the status quo will be broken and the antagonist will be defeated, for good. Which will give room for new antagonists to rise up.

You should play BioShock Infinite at least. If you loved The Last of Us, you'll love BioShock Infinite.

I wasn't talking about the Darkspawn or the Fade, I was talking about the Arch Demon, the main antagonist of DA:O and the key behind the Darkspawn. Without the Arch Deamon, the Darkspawn are nothing more than random mooks, not important or significant at all. They played a central role in DA:O, but no longer do they play a central role since DA2. In fact, after the prologue you never ever fight Darkspawn ever again in DA2, and it's very unlikely the darkspawn will play a central role in DA:I. The Darkspawn have served their purpose and they're no longer key in the Dragon Age story.

Same with the Reapers. They severved their purpose in the Mass Effect story. They came and went, they're defeated now. It's time for a new antagonist in the Mass Effect universe, preferably a smaller and less god-like antagonist.

The Reapers are not the antagonist, the original Catalyst is.
The Catalyst = the Arch Deamon.
The Reapers = the Darkspawn.

The Reapers have to stay in the MEU just like the Darkspawn have to stay in DAU. You can improve them, show them in different perspective, but you can't just take them away. They are the story.



There are games I don't have desire to play no matter they are good, famous, and successful. The Witcher series for example. Never thought it would be a nice idea to try that game. I don't like the protagonist and atmosphere of the game. I don't like the idea of the entire setting. But once I tried Witcher 2. Big mistake... I was terribly bored after 30 minutes of gameplay and just uninstalled that trash... That was a nice lesson. I trust my feelings about the games 100% now. And I just know that I will never play Witchers, Bioshocks, FFs, Halos, anything based on SW etc. Convincing me to play that games is a waste of time.

[GreyLycanTrope]

ME was always more about humans than the Reapers, the Reapers were just an obstacle to get past.
Otherwise the every epilogue would focus on them instead of just about everything else. Let's see:

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Reapers here.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 03:41 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

The Reapers are not the antagonist, the original Catalyst is.

Euhm no, the reapers are the antagonists, the catalyst is just their leader.

The Catalyst = the Arch Deamon.
The Reapers = the Darkspawn.

This is false in so many ways. Did you even play DA:O?

The darkspawn created the Arch Demon, not the other way around.

The Reapers have to stay in the MEU just like the Darkspawn have to stay in DAU. You can improve them, show them in different perspective, but you can't just take them away. 

That is your opinion, but not a fact. I've proven you wrong several times. Point in case: Pokemon and Team Rocket.

They [the reapers] are the story.

The reaper story is OVER. It's DONE. FINISHED. FINITO. It's time for a new story with new antagonists.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 11 août 2013 - 03:42 .

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...

ME was always more about humans than the Reapers, the Reapers were just and obstacle to get past.
Otherwise the every epilogue would focus on them instead of just about everything else. Let's see:

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Reapers here.

That can be easily changed for the sake of the story.

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Flemeth in DA2

Modifié par Seival, 11 août 2013 - 03:44 .

[wolfhowwl]

What is that awful bargain-basement Final Fantasy knockoff doing in Dragon Age?

On topic, Morrigan says that Flemeth likely has some tricks up her sleeve to survive.

As opposed to ME3 that tells us that the Reapers will be dead, dead, dead.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 11 août 2013 - 04:02 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

That can be easily changed for the sake of the story.

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Flemeth in DA2

Again I have to wonder: Did you even play DA:O?

DA:O already made it clear that Flemeth wasn't really death when you killed her. All DA2 did was showing you how Flemeth survived.

But if I pick the Destroy ending in ME3, then the reapers are as dead as death can be.


And again I have to wonder: Why would you even WANT the reapers to return again? The reaper story is OVER! It's DONE! Their story is FINISHED! FINITO!

Do you like stale stagnant stories with absolutely no progression? Do you like the status quo? I don't.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 11 août 2013 - 03:48 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
That can be easily changed for the sake of the story.

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Flemeth in DA2

DA is about Flemeth now?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 11 août 2013 - 03:50 .

[Seival]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

That can be easily changed for the sake of the story.

Hmmm....no...wait! There's one, wait, no, that's just a smudge on my screen. Sorry no Flemeth in DA2

Again I have to wonder: Did you even play DA:O?

DA:O already made it clear that Flemeth wasn't really death when you killed her. All DA2 did was showing you how Flemeth survived.

But if I pick the Destroy ending in ME3, then the reapers are as dead as death can be.


And again I have to wonder: Why would you even WANT the reapers to return again? The reaper story is OVER! It's DONE! Their story is FINISHED! FINITO!

Do you like stale stagnant stories with absolutely no progression? Do you like the status quo? I don't.

Then you clearly didn't play ME2, and don't know what are the dead Reapers capable of.

The Reapers can remain in MEU even in case of Destroy scenario. So, bringing Flemeth back is a nice analogy.

[Mr.House]

Hmm, didn't that dead Reaper get oh I don't know, destroyed when it fell into a star? So no, it does not work at all, stop pulling things from thin air.

Also your knowledge of DA is horrible. So many things oyu've gotten wrong.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 août 2013 - 03:54 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

Then you clearly didn't play ME2, and don't know what are the dead Reapers capable of.

An entire story about dead reapers... yeah that sounds very interesting. Yeahhhhhhhno. No thanks.

The Reapers can remain in MEU even in case of Destroy scenario. So, bringing Flemeth back is a nice analogy.

No, it's a terrible analogy because 1) Flemeth never really died, the reapers did and 2) Flemeth's story is not yet over, her arc is not yet completed, while the reaper's story arc is very much over and completed.

The reaper story has come full-circle and is completed. Their story is DONE, OVER, FINISHED, FINITO. There is no reason to milk the cow further. It would only turn Mass Effect into a stale, stagnant and boring series.

Bringing back the reapers in a sequel would feel like a cop-out. It would make the Mass Effect story even more of a joke than it already is.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 11 août 2013 - 04:01 .

[Zazzerka]

I'd be willing to bet that post-Destroy Reapers are a lot deader than the one that was knocked out by a big gun.

[The Heretic of Time]

Zazzerka wrote...

I'd be willing to bet that post-Destroy Reapers are a lot deader than the one that was knocked out by a big gun.

^
This too.

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

Hmm, didn't that dead Reaper get oh I don't know, destroyed when it fell into a star? So no, it does not work at all, stop pulling things from thin air. 

If you remember ME3 well enough, Destroy wave caught the Reapers planetside and on the planet's orbit. That happened on each and every planet where galactic civilization has some population.

If you remember ME2 well enough, then you should remember Derelict Reaper that was dead 50000 years and still managed to indoctrinate Cerberus scientists who tried to study it.

If you know MEU and real life well enough, then you should know that nothing can stop people from studying/exploiting something prohibited.

In short - dead and uncontrolled Reapers might be even more dangerous to galactic civilization than living and controlled ones.

Modifié par Seival, 11 août 2013 - 04:05 .

[Mr.House]

You compare the dead Reaper in ME2 to the dead reapers in ME3, right there you are making a mistake.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 août 2013 - 04:05 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
In short - dead and uncontrolled Reapers might be even more dangerous to galactic civilization than living and controlled ones.

Which is why they cleaned them up

Again no reapers.

[wolfhowwl]

Mr.House wrote...

Hmm, didn't that dead Reaper get oh I don't know, destroyed when it fell into a star? So no, it does not work at all, stop pulling things from thin air.

Also your knowledge of DA is horrible. So many things oyu've gotten wrong.

Seival has a picture of "Renegade heroes."

One of them is Corpypheus from DA2, a madman who invaded Dragon Age heaven out of powerlust by sacrificing hundreds of slaves, creating the darkspawn and turning himself into a ghoul as a result of his stupidity.

Yeah.

Of course if he did think that was heroic it would explain a lot.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 11 août 2013 - 04:28 .

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

You compare the dead Reaper in ME2 to the dead reapers in ME3, right there you are making a mistake.

No mistake here. The entire worlds will be full of Derelict Reapers in case of Destroy. And galactic civilization will not be able to clean all this mess even in several decades.

Of course people will approach the Dead Reapers and become insane.
Of course all those countless Reaper remains will fall down from the orbit eventually and make the mess even more terrible.

Welcome to the shining post-destroy horror-survival.

[AresKeith]

You see what did Bioware? Do you really want an entire fanbase like Seival

[Mr.House]

How did that Reaper get killed compared to how the Reapers get killed in ME3? Use your brain.

[dreamgazer]

AresKeith wrote...

You see what did Bioware? Do you really want an entire fanbase like Seival

There will always be outliers. I doubt they want an entire fanbase of the extremist refusers I've seen, either.

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

How did that Reaper get killed compared to how the Reapers get killed in ME3? Use your brain.

Compare the condition of Reaper capital ships after Destroy to condition of Derelict Reaper in ME2.

In ME2 the Derelict Reaper is ripped apart, and still partially functioning.
In ME3 destroyed Reaper dreadnoughts look almost intact, so you shouldn't doubt they are still dangerous.

[KaiserShep]

Dead reapers at the end of ME3 means that everything is neutralized. The reaper nanites are also dead. No reaper signal. No indoctrination. The reapers are deader than dead. If every reaper is dead, what's going to indoctrinate them? The Cata ooooh that's dead too.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 11 août 2013 - 04:32 .

[AresKeith]

KaiserShep wrote...

Dead reapers at the end of ME3 means that everything is neutralized. The reaper nanites are also dead. No reaper signal. No indoctrination. The reapers are deader than dead. If every reaper is dead, what's going to indoctrinate them? The Cata ooooh that's dead too.

But they can't kill Seival's beloved Reapers, they just can't