263 réponses à ce sujet

[Am1vf]

Dubozz wrote...

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Actually the ones supplied by Am1_vf look good, really good I wouldn't mind the elves in DA:I to look like that.

Aren't the last two of those screenshots from DAO? Is not DA2 for sure.

Thanks Crazy Eyed One!

Dubozz, all of them are from Origins, but modified to look more like the DA][ elves.

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

I don't care for originality.Something I do hate however is seing perfectly valid desing choices move backwards because of a lacking execution and apealing to reactionary complaints.

Oh don't get me wrong, I prefer the DA2 design to "small, pointy ear humans" of DAO, which loads of people are moaning about.

Actually, I was agreeing with you in that first phrase.

[Giubba]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

That's a different problem, it's more about what's must be in fantasy and what's not.

[Dio Demon]

Damn! Got ninja'd  Well at least I didn't get pirated! ... I'll see myself out now.

Modifié par Crazy Eyed One, 10 août 2013 - 01:58 .

[LinksOcarina]

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

Well actually the Chantry and the Andrastian religion is the Catholic Church and Christianity respectively with a few minor differences. Meanwhile the Tevinter Church is obviously the protestant church...

I can't believe some people seriously argue that the DA2 elf designs should be kept because they were "original and unique" which they are not as I explained and showed above. They are bad designs of the elves from MMO's which doesn't make them original or unique.

Most fantasy works follow a pantehon, polytheistic religion. Dragon age is unique where it's really monotheism with a few outliers that are technically animism. Same with the Qun as a philosophy. 

Is it unique in the real world? no. But no religious institution would be. Is it unique in fantasy works? Oh yeah. You don't see monotheism every day. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

I wasn't a big fan of the Neanderthal like foreheads honestly. The best looking elves in the game were the ones that tones down that aspect, which kinda defeats the purpose of having it imo.

[Giubba]

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

Well actually the Chantry and the Andrastian religion is the Catholic Church and Christianity respectively with a few minor differences. Meanwhile the Tevinter Church is obviously the protestant church...

I can't believe some people seriously argue that the DA2 elf designs should be kept because they were "original and unique" which they are not as I explained and showed above. They are bad designs of the elves from MMO's which doesn't make them original or unique.

Sorry but are you afflicted by some reading disorder?

Where have we posted anything about DA2 being "unique or original", that's what you keep saying.

[LinksOcarina]

Giubba1985 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

That's a different problem, it's more about what's must be in fantasy and what's not.

Actually no. The point is they don't need to be in it to make it fantasy. 

And complaining about how they look is a fruitless debate since it doesn't matter because they are always going to be unoriginal. What sets elves apart is how they are treated in the worlds history, and even then we see similarities to other works too. 

[Dubozz]

Thanks for clarification. All of them look great.

[Am1vf]

LinksOcarina, elves follow a "pantehon, polytheistic religion" don't they?

Giubba1985, the thing about a fantasy setting is being able to do enything you want. If that is firearms some may say they don't like it, but no one has the right to say it doesn't belong in a fantasy setting.

[quickthorn]

Elton John is dead wrote...


Or Bioware could have gone the more beastie route with elves. Here are some two elven portraits from NWN:

Was that portrait labelled as elven?  No NWN elf ever had a nose like that.  I'm fairly sure that will be a half-orc.

[Am1vf]

[quote]Dubozz wrote...

Thanks for clarification. All of them look great.[/quote]
Thank you 

[quote]LinksOcarina wrote...

[quote]Giubba1985 wrote...

[quote]LinksOcarina wrote...

[quote]Giubba1985 wrote...
...
[/quote]

That's a different problem, it's more about what's must be in fantasy and what's not.

[/quote]

Actually no. The point is they don't need to be in it to make it fantasy. 

And complaining about how they look is a fruitless debate since it doesn't matter because they are always going to be unoriginal. What sets elves apart is how they are treated in the worlds history, and even then we see similarities to other works too. 

[/quote]
*cough*thewitcher*cough*

[Giubba]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

That's a different problem, it's more about what's must be in fantasy and what's not.

Actually no. The point is they don't need to be in it to make it fantasy. 

And complaining about how they look is a fruitless debate since it doesn't matter because they are always going to be unoriginal. What sets elves apart is how they are treated in the worlds history, and even then we see similarities to other works too. 

Wait wait i'm starting to lose your point.

Again we are not debating about the DA2 designe to be original or unique but of being different from the tolkienesque standard and being a nice variation in videogames.
And that's regarding the Visual part of elves.

Than there is the lore part were as you said there are the major difference from the usual standard.

Point is why starting to fuss about that elves are in so manu games that do not need to be portraied for once in a different form?

[LinksOcarina]

Am1_vf wrote...

LinksOcarina, elves follow a "pantehon, polytheistic religion" don't they?
.

Its more animist in terms of its design, mainly because their gods don't exist. They are in name only and personified to several virtues. That is unique as well.

Most tropes have the gods in some sort of astral plane. Dragon Age has the fade and a similar place, but in terms of subdued style compared to other settings its quite tame, frankly. Still derivative of course, which is the point. The uniqueness comes from the fact that it is so tame. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Am1_vf wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

I don't care for originality.Something I do hate however is seing perfectly valid desing choices move backwards because of a lacking execution and apealing to reactionary complaints.

Oh don't get me wrong, I prefer the DA2 design to "small, pointy ear humans" of DAO, which loads of people are moaning about.

Actually, I was agreeing with you in that first phrase.

Ah, I can hardly tell since it's 2 in the morning lol

But yeah, can't really find original ideas now days so I have no idea why people are bringing that up as if Bioware can crap it out.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 10 août 2013 - 02:09 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

Well actually the Chantry and the Andrastian religion is the Catholic Church and Christianity respectively with a few minor differences. Meanwhile the Tevinter Church is obviously the protestant church...

I can't believe some people seriously argue that the DA2 elf designs should be kept because they were "original and unique" which they are not as I explained and showed above. They are bad designs of the elves from MMO's which doesn't make them original or unique.

Most fantasy works follow a pantehon, polytheistic religion. Dragon age is unique where it's really monotheism with a few outliers that are technically animism. Same with the Qun as a philosophy. 

Is it unique in the real world? no. But no religious institution would be. Is it unique in fantasy works? Oh yeah. You don't see monotheism every day. 

Well that doesn't change the fact that they just grabbed the Catholic Church and Christianity and then reskinned them. In any case LOTR was monothestic and that's considered one of the fore-fathers for the fantasy works. It's hardly anything new just rare. Meanwhile Tolkien managed to make Eru unique as well as LOTR religion.

I see your point. I'm glad DA went a different route there but that doesn't change the facts. Hell, some of the verses from the Chant are actually just taken from The Bible and given a few extra words or reworded slightly.

Giubba1985 wrote...

Sorry but are you afflicted by some reading disorder?

Where have we posted anything about DA2 being "unique or original", that's what you keep saying.

Christ, you didn't read the original post did you?

Ophir147 wrote...

Elves are not just short humans. They should not have human facial or skeletal structures.

They are also not Tolkien elves. Although they may share many similarities, it is their differences that make them so interesting. They are Dragon Age elves, and they deserve a unique appearance to go along with their unique culture.

Please, Bioware, please don't backtrack on the Elven changes. If you do, at least try to find a way to make them aesthetically pleasing but retain their alien, almost bestial mien. The Elven redesign was one of the best things about Dragon Age 2.

Sincerely, A Concerned Fan.

inb4 Orana. Seriously. This thread is an Orana free-zone, and I'm sick of one bad example being universally used to seemingly deflate a valid argument because of ignorance.

The OP was calling the DA2 elves unique now please refrain from insulting me especially when I never even addressed you beforehand.

quickthorn wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...


Or Bioware could have gone the more beastie route with elves. Here are some two elven portraits from NWN:

Was that portrait labelled as elven?  No NWN elf ever had a nose like that.  I'm fairly sure that will be a half-orc.

It was an elf.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 10 août 2013 - 02:17 .

[LinksOcarina]

Am1_vf wrote...
*cough*thewitcher*cough*

The witcher is crap anyway, who actually enjoys that game.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Its also in Polish and I sadly only read the english translation of The Last Wish, which is all short stories and kinda boring honestly. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
*cough*thewitcher*cough*

The witcher is crap anyway, who actually enjoys that game.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Its also in Polish and I sadly only read the english translation of The Last Wish, which is all short stories and kinda boring honestly. 

Play The Witcher 2 then. You don't need to read the books.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 10 août 2013 - 02:14 .

[Giubba]

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

Well actually the Chantry and the Andrastian religion is the Catholic Church and Christianity respectively with a few minor differences. Meanwhile the Tevinter Church is obviously the protestant church...

I can't believe some people seriously argue that the DA2 elf designs should be kept because they were "original and unique" which they are not as I explained and showed above. They are bad designs of the elves from MMO's which doesn't make them original or unique.

Most fantasy works follow a pantehon, polytheistic religion. Dragon age is unique where it's really monotheism with a few outliers that are technically animism. Same with the Qun as a philosophy. 

Is it unique in the real world? no. But no religious institution would be. Is it unique in fantasy works? Oh yeah. You don't see monotheism every day. 

Well that doesn't change the fact that they just grabbed the Catholic Church and Christianity and then reskinned them. In any case LOTR was monothestic and that's considered one of the fore-fathers for the fantasy works. It's hardly anything new just rare. Meanwhile Tolkien managed to make Eru unique as well as LOTR religion.

Giubba1985 wrote...

Sorry but are you afflicted by some reading disorder?

Where have we posted anything about DA2 being "unique or original", that's what you keep saying.

Christ, you didn't read the original post did you?

Ophir147 wrote...

Elves are not just short humans. They should not have human facial or skeletal structures.

They are also not Tolkien elves. Although they may share many similarities, it is their differences that make them so interesting. They are Dragon Age elves, and they deserve a unique appearance to go along with their unique culture.

Please, Bioware, please don't backtrack on the Elven changes. If you do, at least try to find a way to make them aesthetically pleasing but retain their alien, almost bestial mien. The Elven redesign was one of the best things about Dragon Age 2.

Sincerely, A Concerned Fan.

inb4 Orana. Seriously. This thread is an Orana free-zone, and I'm sick of one bad example being universally used to seemingly deflate a valid argument because of ignorance.

The OP was calling the DA2 elves unique now please refrain from insulting me especially when I never even addressed you beforehand.

quickthorn wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...


Or Bioware could have gone the more beastie route with elves. Here are some two elven portraits from NWN:

Was that portrait labelled as elven?  No NWN elf ever had a nose like that.  I'm fairly sure that will be a half-orc.

It was an elf.

You clearly lack the aloofness to understand the point of the thread in favor of spitting some more poison over DA2.

[Am1vf]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
*cough*thewitcher*cough*

The witcher is crap anyway, who actually enjoys that game.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Its also in Polish and I sadly only read the english translation of The Last Wish, which is all short stories and kinda boring honestly. 

Actually, I was refering to the books... the stories start to weave together from the second book. But I like The Last Wish, so you might not like the rest either. No problem.

[LinksOcarina]

Giubba1985 wrote...

Wait wait i'm starting to lose your point.

Again we are not debating about the DA2 designe to be original or unique but of being different from the tolkienesque standard and being a nice variation in videogames.
And that's regarding the Visual part of elves.

Than there is the lore part were as you said there are the major difference from the usual standard.

Point is why starting to fuss about that elves are in so manu games that do not need to be portraied for once in a different form?

Honestly what you are debating is pointless. The tolkein standard is a mish-mash of cultural sources and mythology he cobbled together because he could. It doesn't matter if its different or unique based on that standard, its still not original  because people adopted it as a standard, when it shouldn't have to be one.

Simply put, Dragon Age didn't need elves to be a fantasy game, which made Dragon Age just another derivative of the fantasy tropes. Since they are there our best judge is their lore, which does make them more unique but even as someone else pointed out, is still not unique enough.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Giubba1985 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Why are you rambling about "unique and original". We ask for elf that are different from the standard Tolkien created.

Still tangled with the BSN hate campaign against DA2 i guess.

Thats the joke though. Elves will always be derivative from the Tolkien mold in every game, book, movie, RPG, setting that they are in. 

It doesn't matter how they are designed, the point is including elves in Dragon Age is basically a cop-out and lazy in terms of design of a fantasy world. Its simply not original because not only does everyone do it, but everyone does it because its expected of them. 

Now I am not saying its not interesting, however, since the elves in this world have a richer lore than most fantasy games. But in terms of originality, their inclusion is just standard tropes, which is tiring sometimes. In fact, everything about Dragon Age minus the Chantry and the Qunari are unoriginal in the typical fantasy tropes. 

Well actually the Chantry and the Andrastian religion is the Catholic Church and Christianity respectively with a few minor differences. Meanwhile the Tevinter Church is obviously the protestant church...

I can't believe some people seriously argue that the DA2 elf designs should be kept because they were "original and unique" which they are not as I explained and showed above. They are bad designs of the elves from MMO's which doesn't make them original or unique.

Most fantasy works follow a pantehon, polytheistic religion. Dragon age is unique where it's really monotheism with a few outliers that are technically animism. Same with the Qun as a philosophy. 

Is it unique in the real world? no. But no religious institution would be. Is it unique in fantasy works? Oh yeah. You don't see monotheism every day. 

Well that doesn't change the fact that they just grabbed the Catholic Church and Christianity and then reskinned them. In any case LOTR was monothestic and that's considered one of the fore-fathers for the fantasy works. It's hardly anything new just rare. Meanwhile Tolkien managed to make Eru unique as well as LOTR religion.

Giubba1985 wrote...

Sorry but are you afflicted by some reading disorder?

Where have we posted anything about DA2 being "unique or original", that's what you keep saying.

Christ, you didn't read the original post did you?

Ophir147 wrote...

Elves are not just short humans. They should not have human facial or skeletal structures.

They are also not Tolkien elves. Although they may share many similarities, it is their differences that make them so interesting. They are Dragon Age elves, and they deserve a unique appearance to go along with their unique culture.

Please, Bioware, please don't backtrack on the Elven changes. If you do, at least try to find a way to make them aesthetically pleasing but retain their alien, almost bestial mien. The Elven redesign was one of the best things about Dragon Age 2.

Sincerely, A Concerned Fan.

inb4 Orana. Seriously. This thread is an Orana free-zone, and I'm sick of one bad example being universally used to seemingly deflate a valid argument because of ignorance.

The OP was calling the DA2 elves unique now please refrain from insulting me especially when I never even addressed you beforehand.

quickthorn wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...


Or Bioware could have gone the more beastie route with elves. Here are some two elven portraits from NWN:

Was that portrait labelled as elven?  No NWN elf ever had a nose like that.  I'm fairly sure that will be a half-orc.

It was an elf.

You clearly lack the aloofness to understand the point of the thread in favor of spitting some more poison over DA2.

If you say so but if you consider that spitting poison you clearly weren't here after DA2's release. If I wanted to bash it I would post some of the pictures of the poorly textured NPC's you find in Kirkwall to go with this thread.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 10 août 2013 - 02:19 .

[LinksOcarina]

Elton John is dead wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
*cough*thewitcher*cough*

The witcher is crap anyway, who actually enjoys that game.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Its also in Polish and I sadly only read the english translation of The Last Wish, which is all short stories and kinda boring honestly. 

Play The Witcher 2 then. You don't need to read the books.

I did, it was ok. I put it on par with Dragon Age 2. 

[Sheridan2010]

Redesign of the elves in DA 2 - the most disgusting, repulsive, ugly, nightmarish, sickening thing I've ever seen! Let it burn in Hell one who did it!

[Am1vf]

aidana wrote...

Redesign of the elves in DA 2 - the most disgusting, repulsive, ugly, nightmarish, sickening thing I've ever seen! Let it burn in Hell one who did it!

Now, that is constructive criticism!
You're going to make Merril sad.

[Giubba]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

Wait wait i'm starting to lose your point.

Again we are not debating about the DA2 designe to be original or unique but of being different from the tolkienesque standard and being a nice variation in videogames.
And that's regarding the Visual part of elves.

Than there is the lore part were as you said there are the major difference from the usual standard.

Point is why starting to fuss about that elves are in so manu games that do not need to be portraied for once in a different form?

Honestly what you are debating is pointless. The tolkein standard is a mish-mash of cultural sources and mythology he cobbled together because he could. It doesn't matter if its different or unique based on that standard, its still not original  because people adopted it as a standard, when it shouldn't have to be one.

Simply put, Dragon Age didn't need elves to be a fantasy game, which made Dragon Age just another derivative of the fantasy tropes. Since they are there our best judge is their lore, which does make them more unique but even as someone else pointed out, is still not unique enough.

Putting aside the veiled insult to Tolkien what amuse me it's the....prejudice? against certain element of fantasy as genre, i blame game of thrones for this.

Anyway your point is clear now.