263 réponses à ce sujet

[Ophir147]

DPSSOC wrote...

I agree and I don't.  The problem is DA has established in books, games, etc. that elves are for the most part considered attractive by humans.  This means the design has to conform, at least somewhat, to conventional ideas of physical attractiveness.

The only other option is to establish that Thedas has very different ideas in that regard but that falls apart because human characters designed to be attractive are still conventionally so.  We might not all agree but we can all understand why people find Morrigan, Lelianna, Isabela, Alistair, Anders, Sebastian, Cullen, etc. attractive.

I don't see why we are imposing our preferences upon the humans of the Dragon Age setting just because they resemble us. We know nothing of their psychology and anatomy that is more than skin deep. Even assuming they are the same species as us isn't actually provable, unless a kind dev would like lay some Word of God down.

Because of this, we have no actual way to know whether or not Theodosian humans actually find the Dragon Age 2 incarnation of elves unattractive. Sure we can assume there is some sort of physical attraction between those in a relationship (which is represented by the rapey Vaugan in DA:O and Vincento and [Feynriel's mother?] in Dragon Age 2). However, unless we are presented with an overwhelming majority of situations in which Dragon Age humans are openly disgusted by Elven donkey ears and doe eyes, we have to assume that the lore is still being upheld and humans are still find elves attractive. Hell, Orana may be ugly as sin in our eyes, but in a differently developed culture that developed radically different standards, she may be centerfold material. 

My point is that the lore may have established that Theodosians find elves attractive, that doesn't mean we have to in order to uphold said lore.

[FGreenSnake]

They look actually quite good in the pics, but we're only seeing their faces right now. But gotta say, the male elf and dwarf look awesome

[Sylvianus]

Faerunner wrote...
Please don't. =(

Elves are established fantasy races with roughly established appearances. I don't understand people's OBSESSION with making them LOOK OMG COMPLETELY UNLIKE ANY ELF BEFORE! for every single fantasy story. Especially when those same people don't mind dwarves always looking like short, stout, often bearded humans. Especially when those same people don't mind dragons looking like giant, horned, winged lizards. Especially when those same people don't mind gryphons looking like giant eagles with thelower bodies of lions.

Elves look like slim humans with pointed ears? Yes, that's how they've roughly been established as a fantasy race
within our collective consciousness. I can see them being tweaked if the author or writer so chooses, but not this widespread DEMAND.Quit calling to reinvent the wheel and get over it already!

cjones91 wrote...
 why elves need to be reivented anyway?

This should sum up what I have been thinking for a long time.. Just... why. While I don't mind NEW ELVES NEVER SEEN BEFORE in DAI, ( as long as it isn't the same as seen in DA2 and not too ugly. Especially since I am going to play an elf ), I wonder why elves need to be absolutely weird or alien, or totally different from everything we know so far. " Their design was already installed in DAO, it would be a good thing to remain loyal to it even if we could maybe tweak a bit their facial features, but that's it. - And they already did a good job with the new look to me. - When I read the DA novels of Gaider I didn't see that they seemed aliens to human eyes.

For me anyways, it's far more important that Bioware gives a good design to each race and doesn't mess with its new art. Don't want something creepy again. I was really scared with the darkspawn ( god, they were so awesome in DAA, what did they do... ? ) and the elves in DA2. I'm still not convinced with DA2 design even if they do their best... So no.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 août 2013 - 05:01 .

[Sjpelke]

Faerunner wrote...

TsadeeHekate wrote...


Elves appearance are roughly defined from Tolkien's concept which has been applied mostly in games.

Although there have been concepts that turned towards other looks which suited their purpose that turned out really well.

*snip*

"Other looks which suited their purpose" is a great explanation.

If the author has a purpose for elves' revamped appearance that makes sense for the narrative and world they live in (like R.K. Rowling's tiny, homely little gremlins that were thoroughly enslaved by creatures 4x their size, and looked unhuman enough that even most muggle-raised wizards don't question their institutionalized slavery), I'm all for it.

If it's just to make them look different for the sake of different, especially when it contradicts the lore (like how most Thedosian humans find most elves attractive when most real humans find them repulsive), then I think that's wasting the author's time and the audience's. Again, why reinvent the wheel just to go driving?

Regarding the elves in DA and their 'function' and design; am hoping that how they look will be different in body build as they looked in DA2 but simply because did not like their appearance. Am sure that they will look different in DAI as the concept art already showed.

I thought the DAI concept art for their faces was a fair compromise. More exotic than DA:O, but not as exaggerated as DA2. Like you said, all they have to do is flesh out their bodies (because the anorexic stick-figures just weren't working) and they'll be gold.

The lore has been set in stone for most part regarding the looks of the elves so when I saw them in DA2 was not pleasantly surprised to put it nicely.

Sticking with what 'picture' has been established for most part for the franchise is the best way to go imho.

Having more possibilities with the new engine and the means to have more detail in character design makes me really curious how elves and dwarves will be handled. Not only in how they look but also how they will 'move'. Differentiation in 'body language' and way they walk for example.

[Bleachrude]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Please stop posting the ugly elfs from DA2.

signed Origins' elves

But none of the elves from DA:O were considered as attractive as Merrill or Fenris...Zev got more love because of his personality than for his looks....

[Am1vf]

Ophir147 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

I agree and I don't.  The problem is DA has established in books, games, etc. that elves are for the most part considered attractive by humans.  This means the design has to conform, at least somewhat, to conventional ideas of physical attractiveness.

The only other option is to establish that Thedas has very different ideas in that regard but that falls apart because human characters designed to be attractive are still conventionally so.  We might not all agree but we can all understand why people find Morrigan, Lelianna, Isabela, Alistair, Anders, Sebastian, Cullen, etc. attractive.

I don't see why we are imposing our preferences upon the humans of the Dragon Age setting just because they resemble us. We know nothing of their psychology and anatomy that is more than skin deep. Even assuming they are the same species as us isn't actually provable, unless a kind dev would like lay some Word of God down.

Because of this, we have no actual way to know whether or not Theodosian humans actually find the Dragon Age 2 incarnation of elves unattractive. Sure we can assume there is some sort of physical attraction between those in a relationship (which is represented by the rapey Vaugan in DA:O and Vincento and [Feynriel's mother?] in Dragon Age 2). However, unless we are presented with an overwhelming majority of situations in which Dragon Age humans are openly disgusted by Elven donkey ears and doe eyes, we have to assume that the lore is still being upheld and humans are still find elves attractive. Hell, Orana may be ugly as sin in our eyes, but in a differently developed culture that developed radically different standards, she may be centerfold material. 

My point is that the lore may have established that Theodosians find elves attractive, that doesn't mean we have to in order to uphold said lore.

We know they are filled with a lot of some red stuff, and sometimes they explode like a water balloon when you poke them.

[fchopin]

Bleachrude wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Please stop posting the ugly elfs from DA2.

signed Origins' elves

But none of the elves from DA:O were considered as attractive as Merrill or Fenris...Zev got more love because of his personality than for his looks....

If you like skeletons then visit the grave yard.
 
To me they were both rubbish companions and none of the them were good looking.


Edit: Zevran had a personality and was good looking.

Modifié par fchopin, 10 août 2013 - 04:51 .

[Ophir147]

Am1_vf wrote...

We know they are filled with a lot of some red stuff, and sometimes they explode like a water balloon when you poke them.

Touché.

Low platelet levels I suppose?

[Bfler]

Elves are humans with long ears, same like Vulcans, not some ugly Quasimodos. This recently occurring need to change established things for no apparent reason is really a bad habit.
They should rather write them some nice stories, like e.g. in case of Iorweth in Witcher 2.

[Bleachrude]

fchopin wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Please stop posting the ugly elfs from DA2.

signed Origins' elves

But none of the elves from DA:O were considered as attractive as Merrill or Fenris...Zev got more love because of his personality than for his looks....

If you like skeletons then visit the grave yard.
 
To me they were both rubbish companions and none of the them were good looking.


Edit: Zevran had a personality and was good looking.

Which doesn't change the fact that both merrill and Fenris have large fanbases based on their looks (and personalityof course). Again, I think the problem was more that the average non-important NPC elf didn't have enough TLC spent on them...Not the actual design itself...

Merrill in DA:O


vs

Merrill in DA2

[Melca36]

Um...I don't think they are going to redesign their design this far into the development of the game so I think you better get used to them.

[Angrywolves]

If you mean like in DA2, then heck no.
Hated the way they looked in DA2.

[cjones91]

Angrywolves wrote...

If you mean like in DA2, then heck no.
Hated the way they looked in DA2.

Me too,they looked like some sort of freaky experiment gone wrong.

[fchopin]

Bleachrude wrote...

Which doesn't change the fact that both merrill and Fenris have large fanbases based on their looks

And where is this large fanbase? According to mr Gaider we are all minorities on the forums.

[duckley]

Fenris (his sloping cro-magnon forehead mercifully hidden by his hair) and Merrill were the best looking Elves in DA2, but they were still anorexic looking and hunch-backed.They also walked with a funny gait... kind of on their tip-toes. Poor things didnt have proper shoes. Zevran looked awful in DA2, and personally I did not find him attractive in DAO. He actually kind of annoyed me LOL.

[Melca36]

cjones91 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

If you mean like in DA2, then heck no.
Hated the way they looked in DA2.

Me too,they looked like some sort of freaky experiment gone wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why those silent elf NPCs looked so horrid and different from Fenris and Merrill

http://i1183.photobu...lf.jpg~original

[slimgrin]

The new elves look leagues better than the DA2 ones.

[Am1vf]

Melca36 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

If you mean like in DA2, then heck no.
Hated the way they looked in DA2.

Me too,they looked like some sort of freaky experiment gone wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why those silent elf NPCs looked so horrid and different from Fenris and Merrill
(...)

Lack of development time, like most if not all issues with DA][.

[Nerevar-as]

Melca36 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

If you mean like in DA2, then heck no.
Hated the way they looked in DA2.

Me too,they looked like some sort of freaky experiment gone wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why those silent elf NPCs looked so horrid and different from Fenris and Merrill

Probably because they cheated. At least Merrill and the smuggler elf hadn´t the straigh forehead-nose line, which is one of the more alien things about them. Although rather than alien, they seemed to have a congenital disease affecting their facebones structure.

[MilaBanilla]

The new redesign looks great. In DA2, I gotten used to their look but the only thing that I didn't like was their body. Especially the female. But I like the new DA:I Elves 

[Am1vf]

Faerunner wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out why those silent elf NPCs looked so horrid and different from Fenris and Merrill

"One of these things is not like the others..." 

I've heard it mentioned that Fenris and Merrill looked the best because they also looked the most human. To be honest, I can see where they're coming from. Fenris and Merrill seemed to have the least exaggerated of the new exaggerated features, and so looked the most human by comparison. Which begs the question: If the new elf designs were so great, then how come the ones that looked the best looked the most "human"?

It's kinda how develpment of humanoid ficticional races ussually goes. You decide the differences so your first sketches look like caricatures of the non-human features. And then as you refine each character you add the more human features to make them relatable.

Because of the hurry for DA][ launch all the backround elves are just the first sketch, with no real personality and therefore no human features.

Just my theory anyway, don't take it as anything more than that.

[DPSSOC]

Ophir147 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

I agree and I don't.  The problem is DA has established in books, games, etc. that elves are for the most part considered attractive by humans.  This means the design has to conform, at least somewhat, to conventional ideas of physical attractiveness.

The only other option is to establish that Thedas has very different ideas in that regard but that falls apart because human characters designed to be attractive are still conventionally so.  We might not all agree but we can all understand why people find Morrigan, Lelianna, Isabela, Alistair, Anders, Sebastian, Cullen, etc. attractive.

I don't see why we are imposing our preferences upon the humans of the Dragon Age setting just because they resemble us. We know nothing of their psychology and anatomy that is more than skin deep. Even assuming they are the same species as us isn't actually provable, unless a kind dev would like lay some Word of God down.

Because of this, we have no actual way to know whether or not Theodosian humans actually find the Dragon Age 2 incarnation of elves unattractive. Sure we can assume there is some sort of physical attraction between those in a relationship (which is represented by the rapey Vaugan in DA:O and Vincento and [Feynriel's mother?] in Dragon Age 2). However, unless we are presented with an overwhelming majority of situations in which Dragon Age humans are openly disgusted by Elven donkey ears and doe eyes, we have to assume that the lore is still being upheld and humans are still find elves attractive. Hell, Orana may be ugly as sin in our eyes, but in a differently developed culture that developed radically different standards, she may be centerfold material. 

My point is that the lore may have established that Theodosians find elves attractive, that doesn't mean we have to in order to uphold said lore.

Which is kind of my point.  DA2 doesn't change the established notion that humans find elves, in general, attractive, so we have to assume it holds.  So if the devs aren't going to make elves conventionally attractive, the game needs to establish that Thedas is operating under a different sense of what is/isn't attractive from IRL convention.  The problem with this is it has to be applied across the board, you can't say, well elves are held to a different convention but humans aren't.  There has to be something either in specific features or their sum, that attractive humans and elves have in common.

[Nerevar-as]

Where can I see the new look, byt the way?

OP, you might like to take a look at Glorantha.

[andar91]

Am1_vf wrote...

Dark Korsar, where did that come from?

Yes, Korsar. Where DID that come from?