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[Monster A-Go Go]

Sometimes "scrapped" is the same as "fixed". Like removing an inflamed appendix or an impacted wisdom tooth.



It's not needed, it's painful or dangerous to have around, and you're better off without the problems it causes.

[marshalleck]

DeathCultArm wrote...
 it seem like alot of system were just scrapped instead of fixed.

Your premise seems to be that eliminating redundancy is not preferable to leaving legacy gameplay artifacts strewn about the game, for no other reason than to leave redundant gameplay strewn about.

What kind of sense does that make?

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:24 .

[DeathCultArm]

It's subjective i'll admit. It's just the over-whelming praise that others me. Sure the MAKO was annoying over mountains and whatnot, but it could'v tweaked, and the terrian's could have been changed. And I...rather dislike ST.

[Sylvius the Mad]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I for one found driving, and all gameplay involving the Mako horrendous.

Whereas, driving the Mako was my favourite part of ME.  There was no other aspect I so enjoyed.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

DeathCultArm wrote...

It's subjective i'll admit. It's just the over-whelming praise that others me. Sure the MAKO was annoying over mountains and whatnot, but it could'v tweaked, and the terrian's could have been changed. And I...rather dislike ST.

Well we'll agree to disagree on ST.

Regarding 'tweaking' the terrain? How would you do it. It's easy to say 'It could be tweaked', but thats lightyears away from a working framework to even begin programming it, and, no offence, people would still moan about it after programmers had spent weeks altering it.

Its a No Win situation.

[Naltair]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I for one found driving, and all gameplay involving the Mako horrendous.

Whereas, driving the Mako was my favourite part of ME.  There was no other aspect I so enjoyed.

To each their own but wow... I am surprised.

I felt it enhanced the main story missions but other then that I hated the Mako.

[DeathCultArm]

Yes, I must admit..you can please everyone. But the terrian could have been more like noveria or virmire. It just removing something completely, never sounds like a good idea.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Naltair wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I for one found driving, and all gameplay involving the Mako horrendous.

Whereas, driving the Mako was my favourite part of ME.  There was no other aspect I so enjoyed.

To each their own but wow... I am surprised.

I felt it enhanced the main story missions but other then that I hated the Mako.

It was fun to drive.  It handled well, it had simple controls, it was easy to drive and shoot at the same time (even in different directions); what's not to like?

It may have trivialised some outdoor combat (given that you could shoot sideways and just move back and forth to avoid incoming projectiles), but the game didn't really try to be challenging from a combat perspective (which is good, because I don't like action games).

[GmanFresh]

i have my concerns but i will reserve judgement

[Scharfschutzen]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Yes, I must admit..you can please everyone. But the terrian could have been more like noveria or virmire. It just removing something completely, never sounds like a good idea.

I know what you mean.  I remember hearing mention of this "great new vehicle that you're gonna love" in a staff interview a while back, but I expected that you would be able to control it.  A steerable hovercraft would have been fun.  You feel as if you're a singular 'space-explorer' who has choice in the locations that he'll visit but you don't have to ascend steep surfaces or try in vain to turn your mako around out of a corner while a geth colossus is shooting at you. 

Modifié par Scharfschutzen, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:36 .

[DeathCultArm]

Yes, that's why I was expecting. They've shouldn't confirmed it in the first place, if it wasn't going to happen. It seems like it could've worked.

Modifié par DeathCultArm, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:40 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I for one found driving, and all gameplay involving the Mako horrendous.

Whereas, driving the Mako was my favourite part of ME.  There was no other aspect I so enjoyed.

To each their own but wow... I am surprised.

I felt it enhanced the main story missions but other then that I hated the Mako.

It was fun to drive.  It handled well, it had simple controls, it was easy to drive and shoot at the same time (even in different directions); what's not to like?
.

It did NOT handle well. Almost by rule this was exaggerated by the incredibly steep inclines of the environment, and every map abused the placement of 'mountains'.

There are instances when you'd hit the tiniest bump on your path, and end up spiraling, literally spiraling 360 degrees. The Mako, in-game, was made out to be some paperweight that couldn't stay on the ground if its life depended on it. I was actually perplexed as to why any shot by a geth rocket or... laser ball doo-hickey didn't just send it hurtling into the stratosphere. I think it could've easily been remedied by just making the damn thing heavier, and have the wheels actually STAY on the ground.

If you liked it, good for you, but there's no masking it flaws, especially now that it's not even in the game (Apparently. Though for a while I heard they redesigned it, and was in the game, now I guess that's no longer the case.)

[Scharfschutzen]

GnusmasTHX, it sounds more like you're complaining about the environments, although if you hit something big enough the mako would inflect sometimes.

Modifié par Scharfschutzen, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:48 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

It did NOT handle well.

It did, though.  Its design was a bit counter-intuitive, but once you learned what your inputs actually did (turning didn't do anything unless you were on the ground - angular momentum was conserved when in flight - the rockets always propelled the craft up relative to its own orientation) it was an elegant little machine.

It drives very differently from any other vehicle I've ever controlled, though, so perhaps that's why people had trouble with it.

Almost by rule this was exaggerated by the incredibly steep inclines of the environment, and every map abused the placement of 'mountains'.

Those inclines were trivial if you tacked across them and planned your route using the map.  I didn't understand the outcry about those at all.

There are instances when you'd hit the tiniest bump on your path, and end up spiraling, literally spiraling 360 degrees.

Yes, but after you've done that once you could maybe learn from that experience and give the rockets a little spurt just before you get there to avoid those bumps.

The Mako, in-game, was made out to be some paperweight that couldn't stay on the ground if its life depended on it. I was actually perplexed as to why any shot by a geth rocket or... laser ball doo-hickey didn't just send it hurtling into the stratosphere.

Because those were energy weapons and didn't strike with much force.  If they were throwing rocks at you, I could understand your confusion.

If you liked it, good for you, but there's no masking it flaws, especially now that it's not even in the game

How is that even vaguely relevant?  I'm aware the Mako wasn't well-liked, but I maintain that those people have misjudged the vehicle.  It's a shame BioWare felt the need to pander to them rather than just building a driving tutorial into the early part of the game.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:55 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I would have preferred them to just improve the uncharted worlds instead of removing them.



Same with the Inventory, Abilities, Squad Armours and all that.



I'm sure the game will be great, but the only thing that I'm excited for is the story stuff. Combat may surprise me though, but the classes all seem one dimensional.

[DeadFlagBlues]

My understanding is there are rumours of day 1 DLC actually being a driveable vehicle...Hmm...It's possible, but unlikely, I guess.

[GnusmasTHX]

Scharfschutzen wrote...

GnusmasTHX, it sounds more like you're complaining about the environments, although if you hit something big enough the mako would inflect sometimes.

I'm not complaining about the environments, merely stating that the environments made it incredibly easy to notice that the Mako didn't handle well. Though the environments weren't too remarkable. The exception is looking up.

Try to find any armored vehicle that's prone to the 'spasms' the Mako has in the real world and you'll not find one. 

@Slyvius The Mad, it's relevant because if it wasn't flawed and therefore a more enjoyable experience, it would've been more well-liked, and BioWare wouldn't have any inclination to remove it from the game.

And don't mistake anything I've said as me saying I simply couldn't drive the thing, I could. I was often impressed by my ability to traverse incredibly steep inclines, and pull off tricks not normally tailored to be excercised in an armored vehicle.

Also; and while this is probably personalized for myself, I really had no intention of  ballerina dancing around obstacles and preferred to go in a straight line, always. This was even advantageous, as most minerals and other such items you needed to 'find' were placed between two map points.
There are also instances that getting minerals where avoiding mountains was impossible, and that you had to go deep inside a canyon within a ring of mountains to get. Which I thought was so ridiculous that it must've been a joke by the developers.

I know I'm not the only one who went out of their way to get to something in a difficult area and wanting to move on, only to be picked up by the Normandy, land back on the same planet, and continue to the next objective from there instead because the prospect of getting there by means of the Mako from the old location was just too daunting/time consuming.

Point is, while I'd rather have a Mako 2.0, the Mako 1.0 was indeed flawed, and had reason to be cut from the game. I'd argue MOST people didn't enjoy it, or it was simply subject to too many criticisms for them to effectively 'fix' so they just scrapped it in favor of beacons and the dropship.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 18 janvier 2010 - 10:12 .

[akintu]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

It did NOT handle well.

It did, though.  Its design was a bit counter-intuitive, but once you learned what your inputs actually did (turning didn't do anything unless you were on the ground - angular momentum was conserved when in flight - the rockets always propelled the craft up relative to its own orientation) it was an elegant little machine.

It drives very differently from any other vehicle I've ever controlled, though, so perhaps that's why people had trouble with it.

Almost by rule this was exaggerated by the incredibly steep inclines of the environment, and every map abused the placement of 'mountains'.

Those inclines were trivial if you tacked across them and planned your route using the map.  I didn't understand the outcry about those at all.

There are instances when you'd hit the tiniest bump on your path, and end up spiraling, literally spiraling 360 degrees.

Yes, but after you've done that once you could maybe learn from that experience and give the rockets a little spurt just before you get there to avoid those bumps.

The Mako, in-game, was made out to be some paperweight that couldn't stay on the ground if its life depended on it. I was actually perplexed as to why any shot by a geth rocket or... laser ball doo-hickey didn't just send it hurtling into the stratosphere.

Because those were energy weapons and didn't strike with much force.  If they were throwing rocks at you, I could understand your confusion.

If you liked it, good for you, but there's no masking it flaws, especially now that it's not even in the game

How is that even vaguely relevant?  I'm aware the Mako wasn't well-liked, but I maintain that those people have misjudged the vehicle.  It's a shame BioWare felt the need to pander to them rather than just building a driving tutorial into the early part of the game.

Well said!  I agree completely.  Love the Mako, loved the handling when I learned how to drive it.  Especially learning how to use the jets for smooth ride.

It is a shame that so many people think the Mako sucked, but I don't mind it not being around in ME2.  It makes me a bit sad to lose the Mako, but its not a big deal.

[Sylvius the Mad]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

@Slyvius The Mad, it's relevant because if it wasn't flawed and therefore a more enjoyable experience, it would've been more well-liked, and BioWare wouldn't have any inclination to remove it from the game.

Only if you assume that people didn't like it because it was flawed.

Your reasoning is specious.

This was even advantageous, as most minerals and other such items you needed to 'find' were placed between two map points.

I didn't notice that, though I always did an exhaustive search of each map as soon as I reached it (the only way to ensure I didn't miss anything - and again, since I enjoyed driving the Mako, it was time well spent).

[marshalleck]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

@Slyvius The Mad, it's relevant because if it wasn't flawed and therefore a more enjoyable experience, it would've been more well-liked, and BioWare wouldn't have any inclination to remove it from the game.

Only if you assume that people didn't like it because it was flawed.

Your reasoning is specious.

And you seemed to suggest that people didn't like it because they didn't understand it.

I understood how to control it, how the jump jets worked, etc. I still didn't enjoy it.

[GnusmasTHX]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

@Slyvius The Mad, it's relevant because if it wasn't flawed and therefore a more enjoyable experience, it would've been more well-liked, and BioWare wouldn't have any inclination to remove it from the game.

Only if you assume that people didn't like it because it was flawed.

Your reasoning is specious.

This was even advantageous, as most minerals and other such items you needed to 'find' were placed between two map points.

I didn't notice that, though I always did an exhaustive search of each map as soon as I reached it (the only way to ensure I didn't miss anything - and again, since I enjoyed driving the Mako, it was time well spent).

The simple fact that people didn't enjoy it is indicative of its flaws since its purpose is to entertain. And greatly flawed since BioWare is so inclined to remove it, in it's entirety, from the game, rather than attempting to fix it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The simple fact that people didn't enjoy it is indicative of its flaws since its purpose is to entertain.

The feature did fail to entertain some people (it entertained me quite a bit), but that may have been a fault of the presentation, not the feature itself.

And greatly flawed since BioWare is so inclined to remove it, in it's entirety, from the game, rather than attempting to fix it.

BioWare has an unforunate tendency to remove features that produce vocal opposition, even if the silent majority think they're great.  So that relationship is not nearly as well defined as you claim it is.

[Laterali]

I actually enjoyed it. I liked putting it to the test on the steepest mountains I could find, and jetting off the peak to see how far I could jump it. And I loved the view when looking at the suns or moons while on the planet.



All of the minerals were placed in line to other points of interest, so it wasn't that hard to get to them, there was always a way out of the valleys they would stick you in.



That being said, I could definitely go without a mako if that means better looking environments. The barren wastelands they made for the Mako to traverse inevitably made it a tedious task.

[GnusmasTHX]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The simple fact that people didn't enjoy it is indicative of its flaws since its purpose is to entertain.

The feature did fail to entertain some people (it entertained me quite a bit), but that may have been a fault of the presentation, not the feature itself.

And greatly flawed since BioWare is so inclined to remove it, in it's entirety, from the game, rather than attempting to fix it.

BioWare has an unforunate tendency to remove features that produce vocal opposition, even if the silent majority think they're great.  So that relationship is not nearly as well defined as you claim it is.

Well then basically it's you and your's fault that they're removing the Mako. This magic secret society of yours representing a pro-Mako institution that failed to express their want and desire for a new Mako, and more importantly their appreciation of the original Mako. The result of which is that the dominion of expressed opinion fall flatly upon those who would think otherwise and opposite to you and your secret cabal of conspirators, despite apparently being a minority.

Now... I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence. (National Treasure was on, my bad.)

In all seriousness, BioWare was made to believe that removing the Mako was better than trying to fix it. I didn't like the original, so I can't complain. I wouldn't mind a new, and preferably improved one.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Since BioWare are the experts on game design, I would hope they would know best.

From my point of view, they appear not to know best when it comes to the Mako.