91 réponses à ce sujet

[Tokenusername]

Cyonan wrote...

You can always learn from other games. Anyone who says they shouldn't even bother looking at CoD is letting blind hatred get in the way of what could be improvements to the game.

What you shouldn't do is take ideas from them and implement them in your game simply because they're popular. You generally should have a good reason for what ideas you take from other games.

Wait, your saying we should take ideas from CoD, but not ideas just because their popular?

Wat?

[Evil]

Radical suggestion, why not let extra players join in your single player game by controling squadmates.
P1 would have full control of the game, including booting privilages,  P2 and P3 would be extras.
Simple drop-in, drop-out Multiplayer co-op.
The game this idea is copied from?
Secret of Mana on the SNES.
Edit: typos

Modifié par Evil Mastered, 11 août 2013 - 12:37 .

[Evil]

Tokenusername wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

You can always learn from other games. Anyone who says they shouldn't even bother looking at CoD is letting blind hatred get in the way of what could be improvements to the game.

What you shouldn't do is take ideas from them and implement them in your game simply because they're popular. You generally should have a good reason for what ideas you take from other games.

Wait, your saying we should take ideas from CoD, but not ideas just because their popular?

Wat?

WHY copy a idea?  WHY NOT copy a idea?  Those are the questions you should always ask yourself when doing something.
Just because Salt is good with bacon, does'nt mean you should add it to a cake.

Modifié par Evil Mastered, 10 août 2013 - 09:57 .

[cato potato]

Tokenusername wrote...

dumdum2 wrote...

What can BioWare learn from other mutiplayer games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War etc. in order to improve the core multiplayer aspect for Mass Effect 4?

Absolutely nothing. All those games focus primarily on competitive player vs. player gameplay. Mass Effect focuses on a cooperative, tier based, wave based combat experience.

You don't research Citizen Kane when trying to make a good horror movie.

You can always learn from the direction or cinematography of Citizen Kane, irrespective of the genre of film you're making. Similarly, I'm sure CoD, Battlefield and GoW all have elements that would improve the next Mass Effect (even though the games will hopefully remain very distinct).

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...

I'd say take a flying leap out of single player/multiplayer segregation.
Fun fact: Baldurs Gate was designed as a multiplayer game, and fan-favourites like Minsc and Imoen were filler characters for solo players. (especially Imoen, she was shoehorned in due to playtesters dying too much early on!) So, do that for ME4, without stripping the characterisation of the preset allies for co-op players. (The reason most played BG in SP)

If the campaign must remain single-player, let us use our multiplayer characters to assist the story hero, and vice-versa. (Because I like role-playing in my RPGs, thank you sirs and madams!) ...And also because I wanted to have a runthrough of the game playing as my volus Adept, admittedly...

As for PvP, either build the story around it faction-warfare style, or, more likely, make it a training sim with no bearing on the storyline battles. Mass Effect is incredibly ripe for a versus mode, and could effectively combine Gears-style cover shooting and Guild Wars/WoW-style power combat and teamplay. And if it fails miserably, at least we tried! If anyone outright doesn't want it in the game, I can't see why. If you hate it that much, at worst you'll be proven right, and at best you'll be pleasantly surprised. And why can't we have nice things because you don't like playing with them? Remember the anti-multiplayer camp of old? Look what happened. Some of them now only play the multiplayer, insisting that having your choices matter with no easy way out ruins a choice based trilogy!

The main problem I see with a Mass Effect co-op campaign is how much dialogue goes into it. Half of the game is listening to dialogue, which doesn't really lend itself well to a co-op experience.

Also, the romance scene seems like it would be kind of weird in co-op. What exactly is the second player going to do while the first player is making all the dialogue choices?

The reason that a lot of us don't want PvP is because the only way to actually do it well is to build your entire game around PvP. Anybody should be able to understand how that might negatively impact those of us that don't want Mass Effect to be a PvP game and only want to play the co-op.

[Cyonan]

Tokenusername wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

You can always learn from other games. Anyone who says they shouldn't even bother looking at CoD is letting blind hatred get in the way of what could be improvements to the game.

What you shouldn't do is take ideas from them and implement them in your game simply because they're popular. You generally should have a good reason for what ideas you take from other games.

Wait, your saying we should take ideas from CoD, but not ideas just because their popular?

Wat?

I'm saying that you shouldn't disregard a game just because it's called Call of Duty, but at the same time don't borrow an idea for no reason other than "It worked when CoD did it".

Basically as Evil Mastered said, you should ask yourself why copy an idea before you actually copy it from another game.

[Reddemon159]

One thing they should change is get rid of that ****ty RNG box ****. After having to spend 14mil just to get me one typhoon months after the DLC came out. I was like F*** me this is lame! So I stopped playing the game. I like to buy the weapons and characters I want, not what they give me.

Other than that fiasco the game is great, just fun and awesome. Though I would like to get the Geth Spitfire but psh like that's ever going to happen.

[MaxShine]

Game/Server browser from Battlefield 3 and the filter function. Great stuff. I also like the non hitscan weapons from Battlefield. So that your bullets actually are all projectiles with a certain velocity. That would make the aiming vs an AI more interesting, diverse and challenging.

The core of ME4 will be coop I believe as I do not see how you could balance all these fancy powers for PvP. I really would like to play coop on some bigger maps and more 3-dimensional as all the current maps really only have one height level with maybe a few ramps or ladders.

oh yes and please frame rate independant AI/physics/game mechanics

Modifié par MaxShine, 10 août 2013 - 10:23 .

[Red Panda]

What about:


The hiring and firing of operatives
Structured unlocks that you literally just buy.
Permadeath reward based mode of play that's purely optional for double the rewards.
The ability to purchase vehicles and ships to aid in your ground based missions
Negotiation of contracts with other players
planetary exploration with multiplayer

[Kentation]

Don't really have a game that Bioware can learn from but lets say from strategy games in general.  The games in this genre contain factions that players could play and each faction can be played differently adding variety of playstyles for the player or AI/computer to play.

I think a more varied enemy playstyle would be a good thing to implement. I always find that the enemies feel to similar at times and feel like they aren't very intelligent at times, essentially they come at you mindlessly. They should be able to use tactics in the match or create formations.

Like for example when playing against Cerberus, Guardians should have the ability to create formations for defensive purposes such as protecting the 4 devices objectives or escort items etc, holding up their shields and creating a circle around it like so this image. (For those who wish to know the image displayed is God Of War 3)

s.wallpaperhere.com/wallpapers/1280x720/20111205/4edc6da3b81f8.jpg

They could also have more formations such as forming a line with other troopers behind them shooting over the guardians head, essentially the guardians protecting them. 

Geths could gain buffs for being much closer with other geths in assocation with the fact that "in large groups they have more to think with" which makes players having to having to make a tactical decision about which Geth unit to kill, a bunch of Geth Troopers buffing the Geth Prime or kill the Prime because he is simiply far too annoying spawning turrets and drones and disrupting the player's actions.

These may seem too far fetch or absurd but I would like to see some variety in enemy tactics to make the next multipayer feel more fresh. I know my suggestion is quite different from everybody's elses but all the good ones were taken so I thought I should be weird. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Kentation, 10 août 2013 - 10:39 .

[N7Kopper]

(gah, the quote isn't working)
@Cyonan: No, actually. you have it all wrong. Both on assuming that PvE and PvP can't use fundementally different stat and combat systems (like WoW) than PvE. Seriously. Play an MMORPG and see how different the two formats of play are within the same game sometime - and that dialogue would automatically be a stumbling block. I mean, Fable III allowed player|-on-playerromance, and had little dialogue. What did you do? You roleplayed. Or, you romanced an NPC. (Which in Mass Effect would have dialogue, because that's what the fan s want in this series)

Really, let's be brutally honest here. The whole "PvP combat will always effect PvE combat" thing is no more than a strawman. Most shooters use the same stat systems with tweaks betwen the two, and most RPGs don't. The only ones are tactical, strategic, monster command, or poorly written, to my knowledge. ME is an action RPG at it's core, so take a good guess.

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...

(gah, the quote isn't working)
@Cyonan: No, actually. you have it all wrong. Both on assuming that PvE and PvP can't use fundementally different stat and combat systems (like WoW) than PvE. Seriously. Play an MMORPG and see how different the two formats of play are within the same game sometime - and that dialogue would automatically be a stumbling block. I mean, Fable III allowed player|-on-playerromance, and had little dialogue. What did you do? You roleplayed. Or, you romanced an NPC. (Which in Mass Effect would have dialogue, because that's what the fan s want in this series)

Really, let's be brutally honest here. The whole "PvP combat will always effect PvE combat" thing is no more than a strawman. Most shooters use the same stat systems with tweaks betwen the two, and most RPGs don't. The only ones are tactical, strategic, monster command, or poorly written, to my knowledge. ME is an action RPG at it's core, so take a good guess.

I played WoW for years. The abilities function exactly the same in both game modes for the most part(Some abilities like Colossus Smash have altered numbers) and the "stat difference" is "You now also have resillience"(or whatever they're calling it these days).

The thing is that some abilities are not balanced for PvP by their nature. Stasis needs far more than a simple stat change to be balanced. Remember how Blizzard's way of balancing Lay on Hands was to simply not allow it in Arenas? Are you going to do the same for ME4 PvP?

You would need to remove most of what makes biotics what they are in order to properly balance PvP in this game.

Modifié par Cyonan, 10 août 2013 - 11:25 .

[DullahansXMark]

Cyonan wrote...

What you shouldn't do is take ideas from them and implement them in your game simply because they're popular. You generally should have a good reason for what ideas you take from other games.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Cyonan wrote...

You can always learn from other games. Anyone who says they shouldn't even bother looking at CoD is letting blind hatred get in the way of what could be improvements to the game.

Not so much this, on the grounds that COD never did one thing that was original. (the things it copied, however, are fair game)

[Cyonan]

DullahansXMark wrote...


Not so much this, on the grounds that COD never did one thing that was original. (the things it copied, however, are fair game)

When you get down to it, very few games do a lot of original things.

[dumdum2]

Tokenusername wrote...

dumdum2 wrote...

What can BioWare learn from other mutiplayer games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War etc. in order to improve the core multiplayer aspect for Mass Effect 4?

Absolutely nothing. All those games focus primarily on competitive player vs. player gameplay. Mass Effect focuses on a cooperative, tier based, wave based combat experience.

You don't research Citizen Kane when trying to make a good horror movie.

I don't know, one of the reasons to why I made this thread was because I saw some really good and logical comparisons about why CoD is a better multiplayer in this thread social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/17108898/7#17111236. Especially a lot of the things that MegaBeast wrote made a lot of sense and if BioWare learned from that then they could make the next game in the franchise something truly amazing.

It can be something as easy as how to better balance the game, or how to ged rid of functions that are just annoying (auto-aim, hipfire penalty etc.) and implement other elements in the game that would make it better or/and more fun (Husk mode on London anyone?!).

If a game is a successful multiplayer franchise then you could always learn from it regardless whether it is co-op or PvP. It also helps you from becoming "blind" when developing your own game. For instance, BioWare thought they were really creative with the ME3 single player ending, but they were blind in front of their own creation and when fans gave them another perspective they needed to release a huge DLC for the ending just to try and please people and not make a fool out of themselves.

As a company you often have to look at what your competitors do that is so popular, and then you take their ideas and make some modifications to it so that it fits with your own business idea. I don't like a game like CoD at all, it's just not my kind of game, but I would be stupid to say that BioWare couldn't learn something from one of the most successful and popular multiplayer franchise in history.

[dumdum2]

Cyonan wrote...

You can always learn from other games. Anyone who says they shouldn't even bother looking at CoD is letting blind hatred get in the way of what could be improvements to the game.

What you shouldn't do is take ideas from them and implement them in your game simply because they're popular. You generally should have a good reason for what ideas you take from other games.

Well said Cyonan. 

[robarcool]

Bigger maps, more players per lobby.
No stunlock (stuns are ok, but should have a cooldown of at least 2 seconds so that stunlock is avoided).

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Cyonan wrote...

Also, the romance scene seems like it would be kind of weird in co-op. What exactly is the second player going to do while the first player is making all the dialogue choices?

Having followed Mass Effect discussion on BSN for years, I have a pretty clear idea what the second player is likely to be doing--I just don't want to see it.

Anyway, I'd like to see a Bioware game made in which ability descriptions more or less match up with the in-game effects.  I'm sick of having to do hours of internet research to figure out what the designers failed to implement properly and then explained badly.  If you want to play the game effectively, you can't go to Bioware--you go to...well, Cyonan and his fellow-travellers.

[Evil]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Having followed Mass Effect discussion on BSN for years, I have a pretty clear idea what the second player is likely to be doing--I just don't want to see it.

Anyway, I'd like to see a Bioware game made in which ability descriptions more or less match up with the in-game effects. 

1st point: Ewwww, didn't need that mental image.
2nd point: THIS, oh god this!  I'm still learning stuff that the game should have explained to me, over a year after starting to play.

[Heldarion]

For starters, they could do a lot more testing than for this MP.

[Swan Killer]

HELL NO TO PVP

[Ziegrif]

Movement style from TF2.
I just wanna frigging double jump.
Or rocket jump!

[Swan Killer]

Hazard version of each map.

[Atheist Knight]

Don't ignore canon when it comes to gameplay, that kills immersion for me whether it's SP or MP.

Example: The Krogan Claymore info says that the recoil would break a humans shoulder, Legion's Sniper Rifle is even worse for recoil but everything from a Human to a Volus can use these weapons in MP.

[QU67]

Some of the nerfs and tweaking of guns in this game got a little stupid after a while. Balance changes seemed to turn into "What is Bioware going to Nerf Next?"

More testing would be appreciated, as Heldarion said.

Store-wise? Mix of the RNG and Singleplayer stores from ME3 would be nice.

As for ideas from other games, implementing a menu system like Gears of War 3 or Halo Reach would be nice. The ability to scroll through the various modes like Campaign, Multiplayer, etc. while having an area off to the side devoted to showing what your friends are doing and being able to jump into their games at any time. However, if there is only going to be the horde mode multiplayer we have now and singleplayer, a menu system like Borderlands 2's would work better.