240 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparbiter]

This is mainly a question for those who have done multiple playthroughs.

So, while replaying the trilogy, I was thinking about the Geth Quarian decision in ME3, whether to destroy one or make peace.

I had mostly chosen the peace option, although my first playthrough forced me to choose. I chose to upload the Reaper code having no idea that one race would be completely wiped out (and Tali was the LI of that playthrough...)

However, when you choose not to upload the code, Legion attacks you. I'm finding it hard to make any decision in the Geth favor now. Basically:

-The Geth have spent most of the trilogy trying to kill you
- Legion lies over and over again in ME3
- Legion will try to murder you if he doesn't get his way.

Does it bother anyone else that when they choose the Geth or when they make peace that the possibility Legion would attack you was there?

Maybe it's nitpicky, I don't know, but there are lots of those little decisions throughout the trilogy. The Rachni in ME1 to an extent. If you choose to destroy them, she has her drone come at you.

Any insight?

[Xilizhra]

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Well, it is the reason why I'll always choose the Quarians over the Geth.

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 11 août 2013 - 01:23 .

[wolfhowwl]

No it doesn't bother me. I'm glad that Legion/Geth VI tries to kill you. It is the logical response.

Is the player avatar so sacrosanct that NPCs should just stand there and let you wipe out their people?

Well, Tali/Admiral Raan do that and it was pretty stupid.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 11 août 2013 - 01:28 .

[Kataphrut94]

Legion isn't the only one who does this - Wrex will also try to kill you if you threaten the fate of his people. Gee, you'd think these people maybe wouldn't like it when you try to commit genocide on them.

On the Reaper code thing, they did make it pretty clear that the geth would wipe out the quarians in self defence if the quarians didn't stop. That's what the peace option was - convincing the quarians to stop/

[KaiserShep]

I rather like that he turns aggressive if you try to stop him. It'd be pretty boring and senseless if he simply accepted his fate. In its place, I'd go monkey sh** too.

[Br3admax]

Yeah, it's really the only logical response to the extinction of your entire race. That's kind of why Shepard wants to stop the Reapers in the first place. The same reason.

[DeinonSlayer]

This is why you need to pay attention and make your own decisions instead of letting the position of a dialogue option on the wheel dictate your choices to you. Let your own sense of right and wrong guide you.

Paragon and renegade need to go away, if only to encourage players to think for themselves.

[Clayless]

It's actually a good thing, there are some characters that are arguably as important as Shepard (Legion, Mordin, Wrex) and, unlike most others, they don't just stand around and let Shepard do whatever he wants, like commit genocide (coughTalicough).

[Clayless]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

This is why you need to pay attention and make your own decisions instead of letting the position of a dialogue option on the wheel dictate your choices to you. Let your own sense of right and wrong guide you.

Paragon and renegade need to go away, if only to encourage players to think for themselves.

Also this.

[KaiserShep]

It would've been kind of awesome if Tali pulled her shotgun on Shepard rather than dive off a cliff (maybe vary based on relationship or something).

[Excella Gionne]

There's nothing wrong in lying, but you know, a Geth lying may seem a bit untrustworthy. But it all comes down to this:

1. Legion is capable of maintaining self-control of its own platform and its own personality.
2. EVERYONE benefits from the Reapers in some way(Technology wise). Since Legion still has the Reaper code upgrades, it has evolved Legion in many ways. "Does this unit have a soul?": Legion, throughout the entire Geth-Quarian war scenario, starts to show emotions of doubt and guilt and etc...
3. In Mass Effect 2, Legion states that all life should evolve on their own including the Geth. The Geth Heretics are the anti-group to the Geth as whole. Geth Heretics chose to isolate themselves away from the other Geth, because they chose to ally with the Reapers and accepted the upgrades.
4. In Mass Effect 3, it may have seem that what Legion said back in ME2(as posted on #3)is contradicted by the Geth choosing to side with the Reapers and accepting the upgrades. But that is not the whole case, the Geth sided with the Reapers because they didn't want to be extinguished. When the Quarians chose to attack, they destroyed a superstructure that housed many Geth softwares and due to that the Geth became blind. They were vulnerable to extinction. They chose worst, but the only best option, to side with the Reapers like any Organic would if they were faced with such a situation.
5. Going back to Legion: Legion is trying to save its people regardless of what you think about the Geth. Killing the Geth is still a genocidal decision no matter what. And like I said "Everyone benefits from the reapers." The Geth benefit from the Reaper code to evolve their own capabilities and lifestyle, just as the Galaxy benefits from the Mass Relays and Mass Effect technology which were made by the Reapers. And so, you have NO RIGHT to say that Legion is wrong in using the code to make the Geth have "all intelligence." Betraying Legion makes it act on its accord to try and kill you because you are allowing genocide.

This is what I think of all of this.  And I have my own opinion on the "Curing the Genophage" scenario.

Modifié par johnnythao89, 11 août 2013 - 01:47 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Robosexual wrote...

It's actually a good thing, there are some characters that are arguably as important as Shepard (Legion, Mordin, Wrex) and, unlike most others, they don't just stand around and let Shepard do whatever he wants, like commit genocide (coughTalicough).

Honestly, the writing of that entire scene is a mess. I'd have liked an option for peace without Reaper code, or at least an opportunity to challenge Legion for pulling a 180 on his stance over using it in the first place. Without meta-gaming, I have zero reason to trust that code.

In the leaked script, it should be noted that Tali does try to stop Legion if you side with the Geth, and Legion punches her while Shepard just stands there watching. I guess they cut it because it highlighted Paragon Shepard's ass-hattery. Still have no idea what Squadmate #2 is up to this whole time.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 août 2013 - 01:47 .

[CynicalShep]

This mission is a great example of why the Paragon/Renegade system is flawed. None of the sides are without blame and you can't say that saving Geth or Quarians is the right thing to do. I can see peace as paragon (if you can pull it off) and killing one of the races Renegade or neutral (reputation). They made a step into the right direction in ME3, where you don't have to play as mother Theresa or Hitler to have all the dialogue options available but I still think that the morality system has to go. This isn't Star Wars.

[Excella Gionne]

Renegade and Paragon has always seem to restrict personal opinions and the choices that may matter to the individual. The Renegade and Paragon should have been only for personality build up, and not for the morality of decision making.

[Nashtalia]

Xilizhra wrote...

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

i could never see myself and have choosen not to upload the code, as the Geth are no more than Programs in a body [machine], they can ressurect given they are just mere "programs" and Killing of the entirety of the Quarians has no re-do as they are mere Organics. and to that the code does contain Reaper, as much i despise Reapers...

the fact that the code has Reaper in it, was a definate No-No to the upload the code

[Xilizhra]

Nashtalia wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

i could never see myself and have choosen not to upload the code, as the Geth are no more than Programs in a body [machine], they can ressurect given they are just mere "programs" and Killing of the entirety of the Quarians has no re-do as they are mere Organics. and to that the code does contain Reaper, as much i despise Reapers...

the fact that the code has Reaper in it, was a definate No-No to the upload the code

Bah. It's no more dangerous than EDI.

[Cobalt2113]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

i could never see myself and have choosen not to upload the code, as the Geth are no more than Programs in a body [machine], they can ressurect given they are just mere "programs" and Killing of the entirety of the Quarians has no re-do as they are mere Organics. and to that the code does contain Reaper, as much i despise Reapers...

the fact that the code has Reaper in it, was a definate No-No to the upload the code

Bah. It's no more dangerous than EDI.

Yeah but EDI is only one person. Not an entire race of potential reaper slaves in the making.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

i could never see myself and have choosen not to upload the code, as the Geth are no more than Programs in a body [machine], they can ressurect given they are just mere "programs" and Killing of the entirety of the Quarians has no re-do as they are mere Organics. and to that the code does contain Reaper, as much i despise Reapers...

the fact that the code has Reaper in it, was a definate No-No to the upload the code

Bah. It's no more dangerous than EDI.

Oh yeah, EDI. She killed every single soldier on the entire Luna colony fyi.

[KaiserShep]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Bah. It's no more dangerous than EDI.

Oh yeah, EDI. She killed every single soldier on the entire Luna colony fyi.

EDI =/= Hannibal. EDI is derived from the rogue VI, but isn't completely the same entity anymore. It also bears reminding that the VI was under distress in the infancy of its sentience, as indicated by the binary message saying "help". In any case, EDI has been nothing but a helpful character since ME2. Safe to say, she is not a danger.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 11 août 2013 - 04:58 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I agree that without metagaming you have no idea if the reaper code is save. You have only Legion's word. And Legion has deceived you.

Also your other squad mate in the Geth / Quarian decision just drops completely out of the picture. What happened to Ashley? What happened to Javik? You just killed a reaper. Don't they want to have a look? Tali and Legion go to the cliff, but not Javik. Javik would warn you not to side with the synthetics. Ashley or Kaidan would remind you about Eden Prime. What about Liara? She might advocate peace. Garrus? Probably would remind you about Ilos, Virmire, Noveria. James? Who knows? EDI would definitely advocate for Legion. Given the battle, you probably had a tank with you: that meant the VS, Javik, James, or Garrus

This is why the second squadmate's presence was dropped from the scene. Little backing for the Geth.

I'm guessing squad mate #2 is in that vehicle smoking a blunt.

And why didn't they show paragon Shepard as an ass hat? Paragons can be ass hats.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 11 août 2013 - 05:16 .

[Sir DeLoria]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I agree that without metagaming you have no idea if the reaper code is save. You have only Legion's word. And Legion has deceived you.

Also your other squad mate in the Geth / Quarian decision just drops completely out of the picture. What happened to Ashley? What happened to Javik? You just killed a reaper. Don't they want to have a look? Tali and Legion go to the cliff, but not Javik. Javik would warn you not to side with the synthetics. Ashley or Kaidan would remind you about Eden Prime. What about Liara? She might advocate peace. Garrus? Probably would remind you about Ilos, Virmire, Noveria. James? Who knows? EDI would definitely advocate for Legion. Given the battle, you probably had a tank with you: that meant the VS, Javik, James, or Garrus

This is why the second squadmate's presence was dropped from the scene. Little backing for the Geth.

I'm guessing squad mate #2 is in that vehicle smoking a blunt.

And why didn't they show paragon Shepard as an ass hat? Paragons can be ass hats.

I will never consider butchering the Quarian race as a Paragon choice, if anything, it's together with killing Mordin/stopping the cure, the most evil choice in the trilogy.

Modifié par Necanor, 11 août 2013 - 05:19 .

[Steelcan]

Better to just sell Legion and avoid the whole issue.

[Xilizhra]

Oh yeah, EDI. She killed every single soldier on the entire Luna colony fyi.

That was before Reaper tech.

I agree that without metagaming you have no idea if the reaper code is save. You have only Legion's word. And Legion has deceived you.

Or an ounce of common sense. Legion didn't even deceive you; IIRC, there was never a line where it claimed to have annihilated all Reaper code, it just didn't mention carrying the upgrades until it became relevant.

[Argolas]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

This is why you need to pay attention and make your own decisions instead of letting the position of a dialogue option on the wheel dictate your choices to you. Let your own sense of right and wrong guide you.

Paragon and renegade need to go away, if only to encourage players to think for themselves.

Indeed.