240 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Jukaga wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, they have husks. They're clearly not orthodox geth. Eliminate the impossibilities...

I don't recall facing husks in those missions, just 4 semi-fortified Geth bases.

On Rayingri, in the Gagarin system, the geth took over a research facility during this mission, which has husks.

[David7204]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

For most people, unfortunately. I pick Destroy.

*reads your post*

*looks at your avatar*

*reads your post again*

Okay, that was unexpected. I expected you to pick synthesis.

Why is that?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Nashtalia wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Legion is trying to stop you from murdering its entire race, so I see nothing blameworthy there.

i could never see myself and have choosen not to upload the code, as the Geth are no more than Programs in a body [machine], they can ressurect given they are just mere "programs" and Killing of the entirety of the Quarians has no re-do as they are mere Organics. and to that the code does contain Reaper, as much i despise Reapers...

the fact that the code has Reaper in it, was a definate No-No to the upload the code

When you destroy the server, all those programs cease to exist. So basically, their servers, platforms, and probably backup stations or network needed to handle a wireless server system, is gone.

In other words, you not only killed them physically, but you destroyed what could very easily be considered their soul when you wiped them out. Afterall, they aren't givent he chance to vacate their platform before being destroyed, and we've never seen them have this ability in the past(when legion dies in ME2 he dies for good, geth VI is not legion).

But go ahead and delude yourself into thinking somehow the geth survived the quarians extermination campaign, if that makes you feel better.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Steelcan wrote...

Necanor wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...
I will never consider butchering the Quarian race as a Paragon choice, if anything, it's together with killing Mordin/stopping the cure, the most evil choice in the trilogy.

Why is sabotaging the cure evil? You're preventing billions of deaths when the Krogan inevitably run amuck and start dropping asteroids on inhabited worlds...again.

And you're dooming the Krogan race in the process. If the Rachni don't kill them, time will.

.  If Wreav is leading them, good.  Id ratger the krogan go extinct than start a new rebellions.  And the rachni too can snuff it.

Why not just assassinate wreav than? Why kill them all permanently, every man, woman, child, and unborn infant?

[ArmstrongHouston]

Turbo_J wrote...

The Quarians: Retcon or clue. Listen to Tali in ME1 on how her government works... then play her loyalty mission and her ME3 mission and - yeah - that's not how things should go. The Admirals should have been dispanded in ME2 after Tali's trial... 

Tali never said the Admiralty board need unanimous votes for everything and had to disband every time they so much as farted, it was only when they over turned the conclave. Although one's codex does say that people accused of crimes are trialed before the captain. Not sure if this is actually retconning as the admirality board only deals with fleet endangering cases, which one does say they have authority over(although that was in regards to conclave decisions, its safe to assume it'd carry over to other areas aswell).

Modifié par ArmstrongHouston, 14 août 2013 - 01:31 .

[o Ventus]

Legion uploads the geth from the server into the battalion of Primes. The same Primes that are gained as a war asset after the consensus mission.

[KaiserShep]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why not just assassinate wreav than? Why kill them all permanently, every man, woman, child, and unborn infant?

Aside from the likely difficulty of assassinating him, Wreav's influence has been in place since his rise to power after killing Wrex on Vermire, in which case, the damage is already done. But it doesn't matter, because by the end of the reaper war, he's already rallied the Krogan to whatever cause he's interested at the time. Even if you did assassinate him, he'd just have plenty more who are already moving in the direction he wanted. The Krogan would have two of the council races in their sights, and given the state of the galaxy after the war, it wouldn't be surprising if the Krogan had their eye on the others as well, like Earth, for instance. Wreav jokes about this when he mentions Australia, but given their history, and his mindset, I would be inclined to believe that there's more truth to that joke than he lets on. I'd sooner see them wiped from the face of the galaxy before granting them the opportunity.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 août 2013 - 01:40 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

o Ventus wrote...

Legion uploads the geth from the server into the battalion of Primes. The same Primes that are gained as a war asset after the consensus mission.

All the geth in the battlefield can fit into the primes? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Or do you mean because he could download programs directly linked into the server into platform bodies, the same thing can be done from probably across the system with no physical connection and probably the loss of their wireless network due to the quarians efforts.

[Cainhurst Crow]

KaiserShep wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why not just assassinate wreav than? Why kill them all permanently, every man, woman, child, and unborn infant?

Aside from the likely difficulty of assassinating him, Wreav's influence has been in place since his rise to power after killing Wrex on Vermire, in which case, the damage is already done. But it doesn't matter, because by the end of the reaper war, he's already rallied the Krogan to whatever cause he's interested at the time. Even if you did assassinate him, he'd just have plenty more who are already moving in the direction he wanted. The Krogan would have two of the council races in their sights, and given the state of the galaxy after the war, it wouldn't be surprising if the Krogan had their eye on the others as well, like Earth, for instance. Wreav jokes about this when he mentions Australia, but given their history, and his mindset, I would be inclined to believe that there's more truth to that joke than he lets on. I'd sooner see them wiped from the face of the galaxy before granting them the opportunity.

Well, thinking on it. If you killed wrex, the one big supporter for the krogan changing their ways, and wiped out any hope of curing the genophage, even if said cure would have been left in salarian control and mordins hands, than I guess you might as well go all the way and kill them for good.

Still doesn't feel right, and probably should never feel right for anyone who decides to do this, at least I hope nobody feels good or gets off commiting mass genocide. Because let's not dance around the truth, this is genocide that just happens to have a reason that people can agree with or support attached to it.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 14 août 2013 - 01:45 .

[KaiserShep]

And besides, if I'm going to have to make do with a Wreav-run Krogan, I'd rather have Mordin put his expertise to good use elsewhere, rather than have him die either by Shepard's gun or implementing a cure under conditions I believe to be less than favorable.

I wouldn't feel "good" about dooming the Krogan to extinction under these conditions, but I do think that it would be necessary. Outliers like Wrex would have no voice under Wreav's control, and given their immensely long life spans, there's not a whole lot of room for optimism that they'd see reason until someone develops a new weapon against them.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 août 2013 - 01:48 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Necanor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

And then they went full-retard mode and killed every organic, they could get their robotic hands on. Tali says in ME1, that the Geth butchered 99% of the Quarian population, regardless of which side they were on, what age, gender or creed they belonged to. It's briefly mentioned in ME2, how they didn't just target Quarians, but literally any organic being(the Asari, who still grieves about her bondmate, who was killed by the Geth). They did at least spare the few lucky survivors(maybe 1% of the Quarian population) of this madness. Are they not merciful?

Well, they were just following the quarians' example. Except for letting a few quarians escape, of course.

That justifies exactly nothing. The Geth said themselves "this unit has not taken part in the hostilities, why is it punished?". Yeah, tell that to the millions of children, elderly and other civilians you slaughtered.

I thought the geth tried all options before they decided to enact mirrored quarian tactics, and that that line came before the quarians were actually slaughtered or lost the war. The geth didn't have an understanding that organics did, probably most of the programs being wiped out and permanently deleted was younger than the youngest quarian killed in the conflict. To the geth they more than likely had no reference point or any ability to understand the difference between citizen and combatant, young or old, outside of it being an arbitray difference. Mainly this is because there didn't seem to be any difference taught to them, since from the moment they became aware, they were attacked.

Jacob has a good line for this, "if you treat them like animals, big shock, they become animals". I can't help but feel something similar happened here. The geth, attacked all their life, seeing quarians more than eager to kill them on sight for the crime of exsistence, and even kill their own to do it, finally snapped and used the same tactics employed on them against the quarians because it was practically all they had known. Also, there have apparently been multiple times when the quarians were offered peace, with the quarians using any sort of leverage in either technology or oppurtunity to attack, with intent of total destruction, 99.9% of the time, according to legion when you bring him on the flotilla in mass effect 2.

[o Ventus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Legion uploads the geth from the server into the battalion of Primes. The same Primes that are gained as a war asset after the consensus mission.

All the geth in the battlefield can fit into the primes? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Or do you mean because he could download programs directly linked into the server into platform bodies, the same thing can be done from probably across the system with no physical connection and probably the loss of their wireless network due to the quarians efforts.

1. One Prime holds over a hundred geth.

2. The Consensus mission was only to weaken the geth fighters, not "every geth on the battlefield".

3. We already know that geth can wirelessly transmit themselves from their bodies to the consensus (and vice versa). I fail to see why Legion couldn't.

[Cainhurst Crow]

o Ventus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Legion uploads the geth from the server into the battalion of Primes. The same Primes that are gained as a war asset after the consensus mission.

All the geth in the battlefield can fit into the primes? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Or do you mean because he could download programs directly linked into the server into platform bodies, the same thing can be done from probably across the system with no physical connection and probably the loss of their wireless network due to the quarians efforts.

1. One Prime holds over a hundred geth.

2. The Consensus mission was only to weaken the geth fighters, not "every geth on the battlefield".

3. We already know that geth can wirelessly transmit themselves from their bodies to the consensus (and vice versa). I fail to see why Legion couldn't.

I thought they needed a connecting server to do that, like the ones you see in the geth ship in mass effect 2, where all the geth are hooked up to that you can ambush.

Also, I think we're talking about 2 different parts of the game. I'm talking about the part where the quariians wipe out all the geth in the final portion.

Sounds like you are talking about the part only during the consensus mission. In which case yeah I guess during the consensus mission they did manage to download, but I thought it was more a consensus composed of the geth currently connected physically into the giant server, and not the "this is the entirety of the geth" type consensus.

My entire argument was towards someone who asserted that the geth don't die because they can just download into other platforms somehow, so it's not murder. When I would say that it is, because there isn't enough time for them to download into platforms they probably do not have, and even if there was the quairnas would likely hunt those down and erradicate them as quickly as they did the original platforms as well.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Necanor wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...
I will never consider butchering the Quarian race as a Paragon choice, if anything, it's together with killing Mordin/stopping the cure, the most evil choice in the trilogy.

Why is sabotaging the cure evil? You're preventing billions of deaths when the Krogan inevitably run amuck and start dropping asteroids on inhabited worlds...again.

And you're dooming the Krogan race in the process. If the Rachni don't kill them, time will.

.  If Wreav is leading them, good.  Id ratger the krogan go extinct than start a new rebellions.  And the rachni too can snuff it.

Why not just assassinate wreav than? Why kill them all permanently, every man, woman, child, and unborn infant?

Because honestly? I don't think they're capable of peace. Any of them. They're far too fatalistic, violent, and psychotic collectively as a race to be spared. 

I RP that the Genophage is a terrible, agonizing decision for Shepard. He legitimately believes that curing the genophage is terrible mistake.

The only reason I cure the genophage is because I need the troops, and because I like Wrex and Eve enough to give them one chance. One. Chance. To try and turn their people around towards progress.

And they will get one world to expand upon. Nothing more.

One mistake, and I will finish what the Turians started. I will nit have vicious warmongers in this galaxy to ruin it for the rest of us.

[Steelcan]

Damn I missed the start

[Steelcan]

With Wrex in charge I believe they are capable of peace. Wrex has changed them, this is made abundantly clear.

With Wreav, they haven't changed at all. And I will watch them die off to spare the galaxy another Rebellions.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

With Wrex in charge I believe they are capable of peace. Wrex has changed them, this is made abundantly clear.

I don't believe he has, at least, not yet. I think Wrex has kept them in line more than anything else. I think Eve is the real catalyst for peace.

As I said though, I'm rather pessimistic about this. I believe I made a mistake in the long-term with curing the genophage. Which is strange because my Shepard had previously thought that the Genophage was a mistake. The more he observed the Krogan and thought about it, the more he felt it was necessary. He pretty much has the reverse of Mordin's development; whereas Mordin originally defends the genophage but eventually grows to resent his actions and wants to atone for them, my Shepard originally thought the genophage was rather extreme and cruel, if necessary to stop the fighting. But the more he thought about it and observes the Krogan firsthand, the more he comes to the conclusion that the only problem with the genophage was that it didn't wipe out the Krogan to begin with. And this is coming from my rather politically correct and progressively idealistic, if practical machiavellian and morally ambiguous Shepard. The only reason he cured the genophage was because he needed the Krogan/Turian alliance to secure the Turian Fleets. His friendship with Wrex and Eve is strong enough that he is willing to give them one chance to better the Krogan.

One mistake, one screw up, one error in judgement, and Shepard will return to finish what the genophage started. And they get one world to grow upon.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 août 2013 - 02:33 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

I actually changed my position a few post ago. If wreav is in charge and eve is dead, than everything the players done has been for the disservice of the krogan, so they might as well go all the way now since they've been put on the road to destruction with no way to avert themselves.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Is it just me or are there very few options in the game where a player can express regret or guilt over their actions?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Is it just me or are there very few options in the game where a player can express regret or guilt over their actions?

Not heroic enough; Players shouldn't have to question their decisions. They should know what's right, unless it's renegade.

Come on man! It violates the ninth and tenth commandments of the Heroic Bible!

9. Doing what thou feels is right will never have negative consequences, unless of course thou does something renegade which will cause the messiah to strike thou down with heroic fury.

10. Thou shalt make clear which choices and options in thy video-games are the right ones. Moral ambiguous choices/options are unacceptable for they are meaningless.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 août 2013 - 02:46 .

[Sir DeLoria]

I usually let the Genophage be cured with Wrex and Eve alive. However, I did like the ending with Wreave and Eve alive(Krogan civil war). It added some spice.

[Xilizhra]

I cure the genophage somewhat tentatively. It's a potential threat, but the Reapers are a much greater one, and in any case I believe they deserve a chance. If it doesn't work out, well, they're not remilitarized, so the rest of the galaxy could probably beat them down. However, I will give Wrex and Eve a chance.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

I cure the genophage somewhat tentatively. It's a potential threat, but the Reapers are a much greater one, and in any case I believe they deserve a chance. If it doesn't work out, well, they're not remilitarized, so the rest of the galaxy could probably beat them down. However, I will give Wrex and Eve a chance.

Eh, I care for the Krogan more than for the Asari or Salarians. As long, as they don't attack Quarian, Turian or Human territory, they can have their revenge. The Asari and Salarians both only hindered the war effort in my opinion.

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I cure the genophage somewhat tentatively. It's a potential threat, but the Reapers are a much greater one, and in any case I believe they deserve a chance. If it doesn't work out, well, they're not remilitarized, so the rest of the galaxy could probably beat them down. However, I will give Wrex and Eve a chance.

Eh, I care for the Krogan more than for the Asari or Salarians. As long, as they don't attack Quarian, Turian or Human territory, they can have their revenge. The Asari and Salarians both only hindered the war effort in my opinion.

My Reapers will stop any and all attempts at revenge if they try to flare up, but I'll hope it doesn't need to come to that.