Why did the collectors need to build a human reaper if the reapers were already on their way to the milky way galaxy?
Human reaper question
Débuté par
galentv
, août 11 2013 03:30
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#2
Posté 11 août 2013 - 05:47
Forst1999
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We never got an answer to that. I think that having a reaper full of human consciousnesses helps them understanding and fighting humans.
#3
Posté 11 août 2013 - 08:19
cap and gown
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As far as I can tell, the reapers and catalyst think that organics are nothing more than their DNA. So by preserving their DNA they are "preserving" life which is their prime directive. They "preserve" a species by using its DNA to make a new reaper.
The idea that organics are nothing more than the sum of their genetics makes me want to tell the catalyst "F* You!" and your stupid choices. EDI has more morals in her mobile platform than the reapers do in their combined fleet.
The idea that organics are nothing more than the sum of their genetics makes me want to tell the catalyst "F* You!" and your stupid choices. EDI has more morals in her mobile platform than the reapers do in their combined fleet.
Modifié par cap and gown, 11 août 2013 - 08:21 .
#4
Posté 18 août 2013 - 12:10
cormacn
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If the human reaper had been completed, it would have enabled the Reapers to execute their original plan from ME1 - activate the Citadel relay, decapitate organic leadership, isolate every star system by locking down the mass relays, and complete their harvest with minimal resistance from a fragmented galaxy. Similar thing would have happened if Shepard hadn't destroyed the Alpha relay during Arrival.
Instead, the Reapers had to fight their way from the edge of the galaxy conventionally, which gave sentient life the chance to mount concerted resistance - which is something the Reapers probably never had to face before.
Instead, the Reapers had to fight their way from the edge of the galaxy conventionally, which gave sentient life the chance to mount concerted resistance - which is something the Reapers probably never had to face before.
#5
Posté 18 août 2013 - 09:13
Yezdigerd
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cormacn wrote...
If the human reaper had been completed, it would have enabled the Reapers to execute their original plan from ME1 - activate the Citadel relay, decapitate organic leadership, isolate every star system by locking down the mass relays, and complete their harvest with minimal resistance from a fragmented galaxy.
If Sovereign didn't manage it why would the human reaper do it? besides the reaper fleet is already in transit and as we learn, is still able to subdue the galaxy with ease.
Similar thing would have happened if Shepard hadn't destroyed the Alpha relay during Arrival.
The Reapers conquer multiple relay star systems in ME3 yet doesn't take the Citadel until the end.
Instead, the Reapers had to fight their way from the edge of the galaxy conventionally, which gave sentient life the chance to mount concerted resistance - which is something the Reapers probably never had to face before.
Except Me3 shows that the relay control plan isn't neccessary or even convinient. The reapers simultanously conquer the major galactic powers within weeks with the relays open. In fact even when the reapers gain control of the citadel they don't shut down the relay system, so the shutdown and alpha strike must have been there for the amusement value.
#6
Posté 18 août 2013 - 11:14
caradoc2000
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Because ME2 wouldn't have had an end boss without it.
#7
Posté 19 août 2013 - 03:48
capn233
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It is never really explained. So you can imagine any reason you want.
Before Arrival and ME3 I would have assumed that perhaps they were trying to rebuild another "vanguard" Reaper to perhaps attempt to build support and activate the Citadel relay (since ME1 suggests this is the only way the Reapers can return), but then Arrival happened and that seemed less likely.
It could just be that they were making sure that Humans could be harvested to form a Reaper. In ME2 EDI speculates that the Protheans may have been incompatible with the ascension process and as such were repurposed into the Collectors instead. It could be that the Collector's purpose was to find the most suitable species for ascension into Reaper form by collecting a bunch of genetic samples, and then experimenting on them. Harbinger talks about experimentation in his taunting dialogue.
I didn't much care for the direction the plot took when Arrival came out and somehow the Reapers could just fly to the edge of the galaxy in a few months (or ~3 years if you assume they started when Sovereign failed). But I do not think that it totally invalidates all of ME1. Coming through the Citadel relay with surprise and taking the Citadel, as described in ME1, would have been a better way to go about things. However, surprise is a big part of that and once they started conquering the Batarian Hegemony, it was essentially lost.
Additionally, it could be that the Reapers did not think it was worth the losses to attempt to take the Citadel by force. Remember that in ME1 Sovereign's plan hinged on smuggling a force of Geth under Saren through the Conduit so they could seize Citadel Control and prevent the arms of the Citadel from being closed and locking them out. The Citadel is supposed to be fairly impregnable with the arms shut. I am sure the Reapers could eventually get through, but you could imagine that by this point it would have been deemed not worth the effort.
The other consideration is that Cerberus is essentially a Reaper proxy force in ME3 and they had plans to take the Citadel during the midpoint of ME3. It is likely that the Reapers knew this was going to happen and if Cerberus could pull it off it would make more sense to allow them to attempt the takeover that way than send a fleet of Reapers against the Citadel which would have likely been fairly costly.
Before Arrival and ME3 I would have assumed that perhaps they were trying to rebuild another "vanguard" Reaper to perhaps attempt to build support and activate the Citadel relay (since ME1 suggests this is the only way the Reapers can return), but then Arrival happened and that seemed less likely.
It could just be that they were making sure that Humans could be harvested to form a Reaper. In ME2 EDI speculates that the Protheans may have been incompatible with the ascension process and as such were repurposed into the Collectors instead. It could be that the Collector's purpose was to find the most suitable species for ascension into Reaper form by collecting a bunch of genetic samples, and then experimenting on them. Harbinger talks about experimentation in his taunting dialogue.
I didn't much care for the direction the plot took when Arrival came out and somehow the Reapers could just fly to the edge of the galaxy in a few months (or ~3 years if you assume they started when Sovereign failed). But I do not think that it totally invalidates all of ME1. Coming through the Citadel relay with surprise and taking the Citadel, as described in ME1, would have been a better way to go about things. However, surprise is a big part of that and once they started conquering the Batarian Hegemony, it was essentially lost.
Additionally, it could be that the Reapers did not think it was worth the losses to attempt to take the Citadel by force. Remember that in ME1 Sovereign's plan hinged on smuggling a force of Geth under Saren through the Conduit so they could seize Citadel Control and prevent the arms of the Citadel from being closed and locking them out. The Citadel is supposed to be fairly impregnable with the arms shut. I am sure the Reapers could eventually get through, but you could imagine that by this point it would have been deemed not worth the effort.
The other consideration is that Cerberus is essentially a Reaper proxy force in ME3 and they had plans to take the Citadel during the midpoint of ME3. It is likely that the Reapers knew this was going to happen and if Cerberus could pull it off it would make more sense to allow them to attempt the takeover that way than send a fleet of Reapers against the Citadel which would have likely been fairly costly.
#8
Posté 19 août 2013 - 08:26
cap and gown
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capn233 wrote...
Before Arrival and ME3 I would have assumed that perhaps they were trying to rebuild another "vanguard" Reaper to perhaps attempt to build support and activate the Citadel relay (since ME1 suggests this is the only way the Reapers can return), but then Arrival happened and that seemed less likely.
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Doesn't Vigil say that they can still fly back and that turning off the signal to the keepers merely delayed their arrival?
Also, the delay may be much more than just 3 years. It may be several thousand. I mean, why would Sovereign bother trying to take over the Rachni to wage war on the rest of the galaxy unless he was becoming frustrated by fact that he couldn't activate the Citadel and the Reaper's usual MO wasn't working.
#9
Posté 19 août 2013 - 02:40
capn233
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I do not think that Vigil says that, at least regarding how long it would take them to return. Most of what he says is speculation on why they are in Dark Space, namely they are hibernating to conserve energy while new civilizations rise up and as such are where nobody should be able to find them.
Granted, a distance is never really specified. They would be unlikely to be found outside the galaxy anyway as there wouldn't be much reason for anyone to travel out there anyway.
He may have implied that turning off the signal delayed their arrival, which it certainly did since Sovereign attempted to activate the Citadel relay at some unspecified point prior to the events of ME1.
The Rachni may have been controlled by the Reapers (this is what is implied in ME1), but some think Leviathan DLC suggests they might have actually been controlled by the Leviathans.
Granted, a distance is never really specified. They would be unlikely to be found outside the galaxy anyway as there wouldn't be much reason for anyone to travel out there anyway.
He may have implied that turning off the signal delayed their arrival, which it certainly did since Sovereign attempted to activate the Citadel relay at some unspecified point prior to the events of ME1.
The Rachni may have been controlled by the Reapers (this is what is implied in ME1), but some think Leviathan DLC suggests they might have actually been controlled by the Leviathans.
Modifié par capn233, 19 août 2013 - 02:41 .
#10
Posté 19 août 2013 - 03:38
cap and gown
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capn233 wrote...
The Rachni may have been controlled by the Reapers (this is what is implied in ME1), but some think Leviathan DLC suggests they might have actually been controlled by the Leviathans.
Except, if you use the rachni data for the search filter it contributes nothing to narrowing down Leviathan's location. The queen herself, in her message on Illium claims it was the Reapers. Also, what would Leviathan get out if? The Reaper's motivation is much clearer. (I suppose this is not a debate we should have here.)
Modifié par cap and gown, 19 août 2013 - 03:41 .
#11
Posté 19 août 2013 - 04:15
capn233
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I think it is more likely that the Reapers controlled the Rachni, which is why I said "some" there instead of I.
But the Rachni being controlled by Reapers isn't something that is explicitly stated. Rachni queen in ME1 talks about a process that sounds like indoctrination, but it isn't very different from Leviathan enthrallment apparently. Her message in ME2 says that she will support Shep against the Reapers because she assumes they were the ones that were responsible for the war, but since nobody (not Shep or the Queen or the player) knew anything of Leviathans in that game, it is still possible she could have been in error. As for the Rachni movements correlating with Leviathan locations, it would necessarily have since Leviathans do not have to be anywhere near the subjects they control.
In any event that is just one possibility. I prefer the idea that the Reapers were controlling the Rachni during the Rachni War. But the motivation is again unexplained. Maybe they were supposed to do what Saren and the Geth later attempted, or perhaps they were simply there to test the Asari and Salarians and determine who was more worthy of ascension. Or perhaps the Reapers didn't like either of those options and wanted to eradicate them to make way for Humans or Batarians to expand more.
But the Rachni being controlled by Reapers isn't something that is explicitly stated. Rachni queen in ME1 talks about a process that sounds like indoctrination, but it isn't very different from Leviathan enthrallment apparently. Her message in ME2 says that she will support Shep against the Reapers because she assumes they were the ones that were responsible for the war, but since nobody (not Shep or the Queen or the player) knew anything of Leviathans in that game, it is still possible she could have been in error. As for the Rachni movements correlating with Leviathan locations, it would necessarily have since Leviathans do not have to be anywhere near the subjects they control.
In any event that is just one possibility. I prefer the idea that the Reapers were controlling the Rachni during the Rachni War. But the motivation is again unexplained. Maybe they were supposed to do what Saren and the Geth later attempted, or perhaps they were simply there to test the Asari and Salarians and determine who was more worthy of ascension. Or perhaps the Reapers didn't like either of those options and wanted to eradicate them to make way for Humans or Batarians to expand more.
