398 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
, than there is no reason to believe that this virtual consciousness is not alive.

Only if it passes the Kirk paradox test.

[KaiserShep]

Ken Donnelly is a fan. He gets turned on just exploring the Normandy's maintenance ducts.

[Remix-General Aetius]

why do people always have to quote the ENTIRE quote chain that takes up half the page just to quote the LAST guy on it? focking hell.

[Kataphrut94]

Looks like someone will have to make one - I did an archive trawl and couldn't find any EDI groups. I may have missed one, but there's no way I'm going to go back looking again.

What is it with these people and Tali? I swear, every page (and bear in mind, those fooking archives have about 6 entries per page) was another 'Official Tali'Zorah support group'. I get it guys, she's virginal, nerdy and reverent in an endearingly 'cute' way, but seriously now.

[OldSwede]

To quote myself from another thread:

OldSwede wrote...
I'm not sure what to make of EDI, she took my sister's body....apparently...  (My sister's name is Eva and she's a physician)

[crimzontearz]

Whether they are alive or not is not as relevant as whether or not Bioware tried to ship them to us as alive for the same reason as they gave us the child in the intro level

Also...how is it exactly that Edi does not push Joker straight into the uncanny valley?

[Xilizhra]

crimzontearz wrote...

Whether they are alive or not is not as relevant as whether or not Bioware tried to ship them to us as alive for the same reason as they gave us the child in the intro level

Also...how is it exactly that Edi does not push Joker straight into the uncanny valley?

Um, that's a term solely used to refer to bad animation of human figures, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that Joker's graphics are inferior in ME3 and that he's in the uncanny valley for that reason, I could sort of understand,but what does that have to do with EDI?

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Whether they are alive or not is not as relevant as whether or not Bioware tried to ship them to us as alive for the same reason as they gave us the child in the intro level

Also...how is it exactly that Edi does not push Joker straight into the uncanny valley?

Um, that's a term solely used to refer to bad animation of human figures, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that Joker's graphics are inferior in ME3 and that he's in the uncanny valley for that reason, I could sort of understand,but what does that have to do with EDI?

uh.......actually it can be caused by ANY  off particular in any artificial representation of a funcional human form close enough to an actual human form.

AND the term originated in the field of robotic btw

extra credits has a lovely special about it, you should watch it.

Her face is close enough to that of a human but still off for instance especially without her synthetic skin

[Xilizhra]

crimzontearz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Whether they are alive or not is not as relevant as whether or not Bioware tried to ship them to us as alive for the same reason as they gave us the child in the intro level

Also...how is it exactly that Edi does not push Joker straight into the uncanny valley?

Um, that's a term solely used to refer to bad animation of human figures, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that Joker's graphics are inferior in ME3 and that he's in the uncanny valley for that reason, I could sort of understand,but what does that have to do with EDI?

uh.......actually it can be caused by ANY  off particular in any artificial representation of a funcional human form close enough to an actual human form.

AND the term originated in the field of robotic btw

extra credits has a lovely special about it, you should watch it.

Her face is close enough to that of a human but still off for instance especially without her synthetic skin

Oh, that's what you meant; ambiguous grammar. All right, but I find EDI's face to be perfectly lovely.

[crimzontearz]

Also, the uncanny valley is not a character, it is actually a dip in a mathematical graph that links the closeness in appearance of an artificial representation of the human form and our liking of it .....juat saying

Modifié par crimzontearz, 12 août 2013 - 12:17 .

[Xilizhra]

crimzontearz wrote...

Also, the uncanny valley is not a character, it is actually a dip in a mathematical graph that links the closeness in appearance if an artificial representation of the human form and out liking of it .....juat saying

All right, but I don't believe that EDI falls into it.

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Whether they are alive or not is not as relevant as whether or not Bioware tried to ship them to us as alive for the same reason as they gave us the child in the intro level

Also...how is it exactly that Edi does not push Joker straight into the uncanny valley?

Um, that's a term solely used to refer to bad animation of human figures, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that Joker's graphics are inferior in ME3 and that he's in the uncanny valley for that reason, I could sort of understand,but what does that have to do with EDI?

uh.......actually it can be caused by ANY  off particular in any artificial representation of a funcional human form close enough to an actual human form.

AND the term originated in the field of robotic btw

extra credits has a lovely special about it, you should watch it.

Her face is close enough to that of a human but still off for instance especially without her synthetic skin

Oh, that's what you meant; ambiguous grammar. All right, but I find EDI's face to be perfectly lovely.

but it off, so is her hair (as she puts it herself) her eyes never focus really because they are sensors and she is not wasting resources to "masquerade" as a human being so I would think joker should be skeeved and uncanny valley should be invoked 


hell she actually is a texbook definition of what should cause it

 

 
Then again I totally believe some Shepards (namely psycho renegade ones) should invoke the psychological version of the uncanny valley (which is a very little explored concept which I totally believe exists)

Modifié par crimzontearz, 12 août 2013 - 12:19 .

[Xilizhra]

but it off, so is her hair (as she puts it herself) her eyes never focus really because they are sensors and she is not wasting resources to "masquerade" as a human being so I would think joker should be skeeved and uncanny valley should be invoked


hell she actually is a texbook definition of what should cause it




Then again I totally believe some Shepard should invoke the psychological version of the uncanny valley (which is a very little explored concept which I totally believe exists)

Her animation isn't sufficiently different from the human faces, so I see no reason why she would. Hell, she's supposed to look completely identical to a human if disguised, and in fact did so in that body's first appearance, so...

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

but it off, so is her hair (as she puts it herself) her eyes never focus really because they are sensors and she is not wasting resources to "masquerade" as a human being so I would think joker should be skeeved and uncanny valley should be invoked


hell she actually is a texbook definition of what should cause it




Then again I totally believe some Shepard should invoke the psychological version of the uncanny valley (which is a very little explored concept which I totally believe exists)

Her animation isn't sufficiently different from the human faces, so I see no reason why she would. Hell, she's supposed to look completely identical to a human if disguised, and in fact did so in that body's first appearance, so...

yet it takes conscious effort to masquerade as a human being (fake eye movements, loosened hair, fake skin and its reactions) and she is is doing none of the above. Remember the closer to identical to life a simulacrum is (while still not being perfectly identical) the more likely to invoke uncanny valley it is


 
Of course one could argue that the fact she is not pretending to be a human being and willfully accentuating the difference between herself and a fleshy being is what is preventing the uncanney vally (remember before the graph dips into the valley our perception of the simulacrum is positive)

Modifié par crimzontearz, 12 août 2013 - 12:35 .

[Xilizhra]

crimzontearz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

but it off, so is her hair (as she puts it herself) her eyes never focus really because they are sensors and she is not wasting resources to "masquerade" as a human being so I would think joker should be skeeved and uncanny valley should be invoked


hell she actually is a texbook definition of what should cause it




Then again I totally believe some Shepard should invoke the psychological version of the uncanny valley (which is a very little explored concept which I totally believe exists)

Her animation isn't sufficiently different from the human faces, so I see no reason why she would. Hell, she's supposed to look completely identical to a human if disguised, and in fact did so in that body's first appearance, so...

yet it takes conscious effort to masquerade as a human being (fake eye movements, loosened hair, fake skin and its reactions) and she is is doing none of the above. Remember the closer to identical to life a simulacrum is (while still not being perfectly identical) the more likely to invoke uncanny valley it is


 
Of course one could argue that the fact she is not pretending to be a human being and willfully accentuating the difference between herself and a fleshy being is what is preventing the uncanney vally (remember before the graph dips into the valley our perception of the simulacrum is positive)

Perhaps. Ultimately, one way or another, she doesn't seem to invoke the Valley in most people in-universe.

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

but it off, so is her hair (as she puts it herself) her eyes never focus really because they are sensors and she is not wasting resources to "masquerade" as a human being so I would think joker should be skeeved and uncanny valley should be invoked


hell she actually is a texbook definition of what should cause it




Then again I totally believe some Shepard should invoke the psychological version of the uncanny valley (which is a very little explored concept which I totally believe exists)

Her animation isn't sufficiently different from the human faces, so I see no reason why she would. Hell, she's supposed to look completely identical to a human if disguised, and in fact did so in that body's first appearance, so...

yet it takes conscious effort to masquerade as a human being (fake eye movements, loosened hair, fake skin and its reactions) and she is is doing none of the above. Remember the closer to identical to life a simulacrum is (while still not being perfectly identical) the more likely to invoke uncanny valley it is


 
Of course one could argue that the fact she is not pretending to be a human being and willfully accentuating the difference between herself and a fleshy being is what is preventing the uncanney vally (remember before the graph dips into the valley our perception of the simulacrum is positive)

Perhaps. Ultimately, one way or another, she doesn't seem to invoke the Valley in most people in-universe.

apparently neither did Eva while masquerading as human


 
So now the question arises....WHY, if Eva could successfully beat the uncanny valley thus looking and behaving 100% human, does Edi choose NOT to do so?

[Bleachrude]

I thought it was because EDI considered those protocols (act of breathing, eye movement) to be a waste of processor power since the original use for them was as an infiltration unit and everyone around her KNNOWS she's not human....

I could've sworn on the citadel DLC, EDI makes mention of these infiltration protocols...

[crimzontearz]

Bleachrude wrote...

I thought it was because EDI considered those protocols (act of breathing, eye movement) to be a waste of processor power since the original use for them was as an infiltration unit and everyone around her KNNOWS she's not human....

I could've sworn on the citadel DLC, EDI makes mention of these infiltration protocols...

a weak explanation don't you think? Given today's computers can simulate it with a simple gaming software....She basically chose to beat the uncanny valley by being less human.

Modifié par crimzontearz, 12 août 2013 - 01:10 .

[Bleachrude]

Not really if you think about it...especially for synthetics

Remember how in ME3, Legion offers to help Garrus improve the efficency of the Thanix by some miniscule pecent?

To a synthetic, the difference between 10% and 10.0001% is enough of an "annoyance" that they will try to correct.

Of course, all of this is speculation because no-one really KNOWS what a synthetic mind would truly consider superfluous.

re: EDI as sexbot.
I actually don't have a problem with that...cyberpunk and space opera, sexy robots are a given (nuBSG anyone?)

E.g The makers of the Witcher are coming out with a cyperpunk RPG based on a tabletop game and the only trailer so far has "hot cyborg/android" woman in it....and it is entirely appropriate for the genre.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Oh, that's what you meant; ambiguous grammar. All right, but I find EDI's face to be perfectly lovely.

You would

Meaning what, precisely?

[crimzontearz]

Bleachrude wrote...

Not really if you think about it...especially for synthetics

Remember how in ME3, Legion offers to help Garrus improve the efficency of the Thanix by some miniscule pecent?

To a synthetic, the difference between 10% and 10.0001% is enough of an "annoyance" that they will try to correct.

Of course, all of this is speculation because no-one really KNOWS what a synthetic mind would truly consider superfluous.

re: EDI as sexbot.
I actually don't have a problem with that...cyberpunk and space opera, sexy robots are a given (nuBSG anyone?)

E.g The makers of the Witcher are coming out with a cyperpunk RPG based on a tabletop game and the only trailer so far has "hot cyborg/android" woman in it....and it is entirely appropriate for the genre.

that implies she does not care about masquerading as a human yet she goes out of the way to masquerade as a mobility assistant VI powered synthetic to go to the citadel with joker....granted of course that she would not be able to sneak on the citadel masquerading as a human past the dock sensors


 

 
Which bothers me in a sense because how in HELL did Eva fool the scanners on a top secret military installation on Mars??????

Modifié par crimzontearz, 12 août 2013 - 02:03 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Looks like someone will have to make one - I did an archive trawl and couldn't find any EDI groups. I may have missed one, but there's no way I'm going to go back looking again.

What is it with these people and Tali? I swear, every page (and bear in mind, those fooking archives have about 6 entries per page) was another 'Official Tali'Zorah support group'. I get it guys, she's virginal, nerdy and reverent in an endearingly 'cute' way, but seriously now.

Come on, it's Tali. Together with her loveable character and great romance, she's also perhaps the most good looking character;)

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Looks like someone will have to make one - I did an archive trawl and couldn't find any EDI groups. I may have missed one, but there's no way I'm going to go back looking again.

What is it with these people and Tali? I swear, every page (and bear in mind, those fooking archives have about 6 entries per page) was another 'Official Tali'Zorah support group'. I get it guys, she's virginal, nerdy and reverent in an endearingly 'cute' way, but seriously now.

Come on, it's Tali. Together with her loveable character and great romance, she's also perhaps the most good looking character;)

It's great... on Tali's side. Shepard comes across as one creepy mofo.