429 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Miltialdes wrote...

Hawke fought for his familly and he believes what he did is right. His new city is in danger and he will not react.

Bioware has to explain why the non intervention of the two previous hero if they are alive. The full world fall apart and they will do anything to save the day. That has not sense.

No interaction from my Hawke makes sense.  His entire family is dead and his new city is in rubble from tearing itself apart, his friends all abandoned him at the end of the game and he....simply disappear.

[Iron Fist]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

There's also an unfathomable number of possibilities for the course of each character's lfie after their respective games.

There are a few number of possiblilities, half a dozen actually, but not "unfathomable".  And regardless of what you dreamed up about them, the Dragon Age world keeps moving and if  your Warden is still alive, there is something that they'll all be doing.  We didn't have controlled of our Wardens prior to taking them over in DAO, and after WitchHunt dlc, we no longer control their fate.

You kind of justified my argument. We don't control their fates, so they could be doing anything else BUT help out during the course of DAI.

I'm hoping for NO return appearance by either. Let them fade into obscurity.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 13 août 2013 - 08:41 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is seeing Hawke and/or The Warden, ingame, out of our control, completely off the table??

I wouldn't say "completely off the table" as few things ever really are, but I would go into this with the mindset "Expect them not to show up" as there is a chance they may not show up, and if you're really hoping that they do then that circumstance will leave you disappointed.

DA3's reception will be partly based on how Bioware handles' the Warden's lack of appearance for the second straight game.  The Grey Warden was a perfect vehicle for experiencing this age of the Dragon in the World of Thedas, yet he was dumped for some reason.  As the series progresses, wanting to play the same "rise to power" storyline like we did in Origins goes flat.

[Taleroth]

Miltialdes wrote...

I have a question:

It seems that all Theldas go to hell. Hundreds demons run the world but if the warden and Hawke are not dead, why they don't move their ass to save it?

They are, but that doesn't mean they're saving it in the same place the Inquisitor would be saving it. Maybe they're fighting Demons in Tevinter.

[The Elder King]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

DA3's reception will be partly based in my opinion on how Bioware handles' the Warden's lack of appearance for the second straight game.  The Grey Warden was a perfect vehicle for experiencing this age of the Dragon in the World of Thedas, yet he was dumped for some reason.  As the series progresses, wanting to play the same "rise to power" storyline like we did in Origins goes flat.

Fixed for you. That's your opinion, and I doubt that it's particular popular, either here on BSN or in the milions potential customers.
As for the Warden, Bioware never stated that the Warden was meant to be the protagonist of the IP (or in multiple games). And the "perfect vehicle" is simply your opinion, based on your (excessive) love of the Warden. I vastly preferred the Warden to Hawke, but I fully supported from the start multiple protagonists in the IP.

Modifié par hhh89, 13 août 2013 - 08:54 .

[ames4u]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The Grey Warden Commander would automatically become leader and then the Inquisitor and Warden will team up to beat up Hawke for being so incompetent all through out DA2.

You just won the internet good sir/madam!

[ames4u]

I think the happiest medium would be to have them appear briefly to deliver a warning or some vague notion that they have sh*t to do. But then they turn up to help out in the final battle similarly to how Zevran or Donnic showed up in the battle with Meredith. That way, people can at least see their previous characters didn't die off screen just 'cuz, and they get to see them lay down the law one more time before vanishing into obscurity.

It's just a suggestion. But the Warden will look ugly as sin I'd wager with the change in graphics....

[DarthSliver]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is seeing Hawke and/or The Warden, ingame, out of our control, completely off the table??

I wouldn't say "completely off the table" as few things ever really are, but I would go into this with the mindset "Expect them not to show up" as there is a chance they may not show up, and if you're really hoping that they do then that circumstance will leave you disappointed.

Well Allan something needs to be done about them even if they dont make an appearance we need to hear about them. Great heroes just dont disappear without a cause and I feel Bioware has great power over Hawke so I see Hawke reappearing for the fact that Hawke has a voice actor and The Warden being left to being mentioned by someone. But Heros dont just disappear and vanish so Bioware to do nothing I feel would be a greater crime on their part. The greatest fanservice from Bioware would be to let us know in DA:I our previous characters didnt just disappear into oblivion.

[Synthetic Moose]

David Gaider wrote...

DesmondHume wrote...
Gaider, i want you to know that youre a pompous ass.

Since everything we do is so terrible, there's always an option: door's that way.

Here, let me help you.

David, I know that it probably doesn't mean much coming from me, but I think that you're doing an amazing job and your skills as a writer are fantastic. And a lot of other people feel the same way as I do. I love the Dragon Age franchise and can't wait for the new game to be released.

[esper]

I really, really don't want to see them. I got closure in both da:o and da2 and honestly no matter how they would be presented in the game, they would feel like two alian characters to me, do to being nothing like how I played them.

Also they would still the thunder from the new PC which is unfair towards the new character. I am already unhappy with the numbers of returnees amongst the companions.

As for why they are not involved in the new conflict. There are so many conflicts all around Thedas, they are properly wrapped up in something else if they are the types to be wrapped up in conflitcs. If they are not, they are properly enyoing their life.

I am quite saitisfied with the mention my warden got in da2. I hope that both Hawke and perhaps still the warden only return in the form of rumours based on our choice. That way their legend is obscure yet precise enough to still feel like the character I knew from the former game.

[The Six Path of Pain]

 Inquisitor: Warden Commander, obey me or face my wrath!
Warden: Not sure if your being serious or if your just an idiot? <_<

Inquisitor:Hawke, join me and help me put an end to this tragedy.
Hawke: Hmmm... woudn't you rather have a sandwich instead? 
Inquisitor: 

Modifié par The Six Path of Pain, 13 août 2013 - 09:52 .

[kinderschlager]

i just want sten and oghren back...

[TheBlackAdder13]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is seeing Hawke and/or The Warden, ingame, out of our control, completely off the table??

I wouldn't say "completely off the table" as few things ever really are, but I would go into this with the mindset "Expect them not to show up" as there is a chance they may not show up, and if you're really hoping that they do then that circumstance will leave you disappointed.

But surely we'll get some sort of resolution to their character arcs even if they don't actually appear in game right? It would be incredibly disappointing to have a bunch of good endings for the warden (albeit an unsatisfying ending for a Hawke who sided with the mages) that get overwritten by a mysterious "they disappeared" with no actual explanation, only to never have it addressed again. Simply making the protagonist of the past two games disappear is an incredibly disappointing conclusion to their story arcs -- and yes, I think story arcs that players invest 40+ hours in should be reasonably well concluded. 

[esper]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is seeing Hawke and/or The Warden, ingame, out of our control, completely off the table??

I wouldn't say "completely off the table" as few things ever really are, but I would go into this with the mindset "Expect them not to show up" as there is a chance they may not show up, and if you're really hoping that they do then that circumstance will leave you disappointed.

But surely we'll get some sort of resolution to their character arcs even if they don't actually appear in game right? It would be incredibly disappointing to have a bunch of good endings for the warden (albeit an unsatisfying ending for a Hawke who sided with the mages) that get overwritten by a mysterious "they disappeared" with no actual explanation, only to never have it addressed again. Simply making the protagonist of the past two games disappear is an incredibly disappointing conclusion to their story arcs -- and yes, I think story arcs that players invest 40+ hours in should be reasonably well concluded. 

But they have not disappeared. Leliana just couldn't find them. And considering Leiliana is the same girl who made the dream + plant = vision connections I do not place much trust in her ability to connect dots logical and lucidly.

Also consider that the Chantry always, no matter what, villified Hawke there is the reason for why Hawke is staying out of Leliana's sight. It is worse for a warden that romanced Leliana, but I am sure that those romancers can come up with a good reason as to why Leliana doesn't know. (The simplest being she does, but doesn't want to tell).

I do think that the line was a stupid sequel hook that should never have been said, considering that the warden can be death and not all played awakening and thus made the warden commander connection.

Modifié par esper, 13 août 2013 - 10:10 .

[Jerrybnsn]

hhh89 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

DA3's reception will be partly based in my opinion on how Bioware handles' the Warden's lack of appearance for the second straight game. 

Fixed for you. That's your opinion, and I doubt that it's particular popular, either here on BSN or in the milions potential customers.
.

It's a fair assesment to say that this next game Bioware needs to fully address the disappearance of the Warden in a thoughtful matter without using cheap cameos or irrelevant codexes to explain it all away.  It's not a matter of opinion that gamers have particular attachment to their own characters they create in games.  Gamers are very particular.  Hence the rage when Hawke appeared and your Warden was tossed aside.

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

DA3's reception will be partly based in my opinion on how Bioware handles' the Warden's lack of appearance for the second straight game. 

Fixed for you. That's your opinion, and I doubt that it's particular popular, either here on BSN or in the milions potential customers.
.

It's a fair assesment to say that this next game Bioware needs to fully address the disappearance of the Warden in a thoughtful matter without using cheap cameos or irrelevant codexes to explain it all away.  It's not a matter of opinion that gamers have particular attachment to their own characters they create in games.  Gamers are very particular.  Hence the rage when Hawke appeared and your Warden was tossed aside.

Which is why they should never feature them. Because as Gaider points out it is no longer your character, which means huge risk of looking or doing something that feels wrong.

Whereas if we keeps getting rumours about what they are doing, we could always dismiss the rumours that doesn't fit with the fact that it is just a rumour.

[Allan Schumacher]

But surely we'll get some sort of resolution to their character arcs even if they don't actually appear in game right? It would be incredibly disappointing to have a bunch of good endings for the warden (albeit an unsatisfying ending for a Hawke who sided with the mages) that get overwritten by a mysterious "they disappeared" with no actual explanation, only to never have it addressed again. Simply making the protagonist of the past two games disappear is an incredibly disappointing conclusion to their story arcs -- and yes, I think story arcs that players invest 40+ hours in should be reasonably well concluded.

On advantage of "they disappeared" is that it's open ended. If you'd prefer, I could suggest that we bring back the warden, and have the Warden become deranged with taint so that he/she actually ends up killing a small village and feasting on their bodies before being struck down by a bunch of dwarves.

Extreme example used to illustrate that if we have ultimate control of those characters (which we now do, given that both of those games are over), there WILL be outcomes that people won't like because in their minds "it's not what their warden will do."

My statement is more along the lines of expectation: it's a land mine to deal with in a lot of cases and if you go into DAI with some high expectations for what to see from Hawke and the Warden, there's a good chance you're setting yourself up for disappointment because DAI's focus will be on the Inquisitor's journey.


I can understand disappointment about Hawke's being rather abrupt and disappointing, and in retrospect we could've done something different as the plan had a larger expansion pack coming out, but reality nixed that. As such, Hawke has perhaps more loose ends and would probably have greater consideration for having his/her plot wrapped up on that fact. But at the same time the story is still about the Inquisitor and the events surrounding Inquisition.

[Sanunes]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

DA3's reception will be partly based in my opinion on how Bioware handles' the Warden's lack of appearance for the second straight game. 

Fixed for you. That's your opinion, and I doubt that it's particular popular, either here on BSN or in the milions potential customers.
.

It's a fair assesment to say that this next game Bioware needs to fully address the disappearance of the Warden in a thoughtful matter without using cheap cameos or irrelevant codexes to explain it all away.  It's not a matter of opinion that gamers have particular attachment to their own characters they create in games.  Gamers are very particular.  Hence the rage when Hawke appeared and your Warden was tossed aside.

Personally I rather have my Warden "tossed aside" then have a magical "you aren't dead" reasoning for why the death of the Archdemon didn't kill them as described.  My Warden didn't trust Morrigan and couldn't ask another companion to sacrifice themselves so they took the killing blow themselves.  Talk about undermining my choices if *poof* they return.

[Maria Caliban]

But why does it need to be open-ended?

My Hawke was a Viscount in Kirkwall. She could easily spend the rest of her life there Viscounting things and I'd never wonder why she disappeared. Same for the Warden. She was off doing Grey Warden stuff with Leliana.

It wasn't until Leliana appeared just to say 'Oh, the Warden and Hawke disappeared' that I found myself wondering what had happened.

[devSin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

On advantage of "they disappeared" is that it's open ended. If you'd prefer, I could suggest that we bring back the warden, and have the Warden become deranged with taint so that he/she actually ends up killing a small village and feasting on their bodies before being struck down by a bunch of dwarves.

Extreme example used to illustrate that if we have ultimate control of those characters (which we now do, given that both of those games are over), there WILL be outcomes that people won't like because in their minds "it's not what their warden will do."

The advantage doesn't exist if you go on to further define parts of the story that would realistically involve the protagonist (such as lifting their romance partner from one game and having them strolling around creation in sequels and through other media).

It's suddenly a lot less "open-ended" (which I don't feel is even an accurate term for what you've done so far), since you now have to accommodate and justify all this further information.

But if you agree to never use characters again once you're finished with a protagonist, then I suppose your point has a bit more weight. ;-)

Of course, I'm a lot easier to please, since my Warden already died, and all I want is for David to reveal whether he's going to take Fenris away from Hawke or if he'll let them stay together (whatever it is that they end up doing).

Modifié par devSin, 13 août 2013 - 10:34 .

[David7204]

Boy, given the interest in the Warden and Hawke's fate, I cannot imagine how angry people are going to be if and likely when the same thing happens to Shepard.

Particularly considering that a great deal of players are incredibly frustrated and disappointed with Shepard's fate.

Modifié par David7204, 13 août 2013 - 10:31 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

This isn't Dragon Age: The Expendables, guys. As cool as it sounds to have all three of your PCs, it just isn't feasible. Add in the fact the board would whine up a storm if Bioware -dared- to give the Warden a voice? Oh, no. No, no, no.

The main problem is that by the end of Awakening, the Warden's practically Demigod-level status. He (or she) laughs at High Dragons, can kill practically anything in waves and even smacked down an Archdemon. It's damn near impossible to balance something like that.

[Ozida]

While I agree with Allan S. point, I still personally think that a soft, gentle mentioning of two past heroes would be welcomed. For example, if new game starts with several slides of “past events” mentioning very brief idea of what happened based on your exports (I mean *really* brief descriptions like: “And Hawke continued her journey to support mages in the mean time” or “Nobody knew what happened to Warden hero, but he was last seen on his way to Deep Roads”), I think that would be fine. Heck, even some note in Codex would do it for most of people, IMHO.

Modifié par Ozida, 13 août 2013 - 10:34 .

[Jerrybnsn]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

 Inquisitor: Warden Commander, obey me or face my wrath!
Warden: Not sure if your being serious or if your just an idiot? <_<

Inquisitor:Hawke, join me and help me put an end to this tragedy.
Hawke: Okay but I got to warn you, I didn't do so well with the last job I had. 
Inquisitor: 

[TheBlackAdder13]

On advantage of "they disappeared" is that it's open ended. If you'd prefer, I could suggest that we bring back the warden, and have the Warden become deranged with taint so that he/she actually ends up killing a small village and feasting on their bodies before being struck down by a bunch of dwarves.

Extreme example used to illustrate that if we have ultimate control of those characters (which we now do, given that both of those games are over), there WILL be outcomes that people won't like because in their minds "it's not what their warden will do."

I actually would prefer this as it's a concrete resolution and it's actually pretty badass (but yes, I'm aware it would ****** off a large portion of the fan base).

I get where you're coming from and I don't mind never seeing either character again, I just want some sort of closure as to what happened to them.

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 13 août 2013 - 10:42 .