429 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Redjackryan27 wrote...

so heres a thought... why dont they use the other wardens instead of the HoF? example your cannon is human noble, what happen to the 2nd son of house aeducan? or the circle mage? they still exist and are wardens yes? its something different...

They die. Aeducan was killed in  the DR as Duncan´s group wasn´t there, Dwarf Commoner gets recaptured and thrown back into the cage, we even see the corpse, mages who didn´t rat Jowan are likely off to Aenonar, those who did probably died during the Circle tragedy (not 100% certainty with mages though), Dalish Elf dies (Witch Hunt), City Elf most likely die, as your cousin is in the dungeon after failing the rescue attempt.  in the other Origins. Duncan was the key player in all Origins PCs surviving whatever happened to them.

[Estelindis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

One problem with that line of thinking is that a potential DAI customer should have no confidence that the Inquisitor won't disappear at the end of DAI-after all, you've done it with the two previous heroes. I'd rather rent it myself.I'm not even sure I'll have any interest in future DA games.

If you find this to be a signficant enough of an issue that you will abstain from purchasing the game when you otherwise would have, then that is your choice to make.

Of course everyone should vote with their wallet, but don't you care that many people don't like it when the protagonists disappear at the end of the game no matter what has come before?  (Assuming the protagonist is still alive.)  Of course I don't know how many.  Maybe you have more information about this.  I guess I just don't see the attraction to writing things this way, unless there's some grand plan for an overarching story that will need the Warden and/or Hawke to be in a particular place at a particular time (and of course we can't know if this is the case yet).  

[dduane o]

draken-heart wrote...

NO!

The Warden would either be on his/her calling or is hanging at Weishaupt (Can't ever remember the blasted name) or is off doing something away from LI unless that LI was Morrigan then he is hidiing from her with their child.

And Hawke is on the run from Cassie and the Seekers.

hey, hey, my warden ain't hiding from Morrigan with the baby, he's however probably hiding from Flemeth though.  Mother-in-laws are usually pain in the neck. He's also training the little blighter to save Thedas once he grows up.  hehehe

Indeed, please no Warden and Hawke companion.  I'll be glad to see them as cameos, helping me in some quests and giving me equipments, showing up randomly in the world since this game was rumoured to be an open world.  It would be nice to see a miniquest where the PC is traveling alone and then they found a hut near a marsh, and then a father and a kid is training and know that the father is the warden and the kid is the God kid.  There would just be a conversation and he gives the PC an old weapon, equipment or a specialization that the player actually used in Dragon Age origins.

Hawke can show up when the PC is in the middle of the quest and there's a horde heading to them and then an overpower character, Hawke, comes in save the day but in a hurry and leaves the character an equipment or a talent.

Both occassions shows that it's the inquisitor's job to save this chapter of Thedas now and the heroes of the two games have better things to do for the moment.

[Versus Omnibus]

David Gaider wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

Some people also headcanon the epilogues. If Hawke romanced Isabela in DA2, it's mentioned that they remained together afterwards... but doing what? For how long? Some people claim that means they went sailing off on Isabela's new ship, and why would Hawke ever leave her side for even a single minute? We contradict that by saying Hawke disappeared and suddenly it's a clash with headcanon-- despite "Hawke remains with Isabela forever" not being a choice we offered.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it. We realize some people are very precious about their PC's, and we're not apt to go out of our way to have them do things that violate headcanon... but they obviously did something, and that involves a plot that may not be what someone had in mind. Just be aware.

Then why not just kill them? Wouldn't that be easier?

[xnode]

love the developers, in the end you don't like it, move along. How true, I guess I get why some of you are putting up a stink so much, but then again it is a story and game, you like it or don't the way it is. I guess that's the point to move along if it's not your thing. Anywhoo interesting topic I have to side with the devs on it thou.

[Estelindis]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Then why not just kill them? Wouldn't that be easier?

Don't tempt them!    They already find fan tears quite delicious enough, thanks.  

[Versus Omnibus]

Estelindis wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Then why not just kill them? Wouldn't that be easier?

Don't tempt them!    They already find fan tears quite delicious enough, thanks.  

Oh trust me: Gaider will make fans cry no matter what they say. He's like the Nimon thing from Doctor Who: he feeds on our faiths only to kill us off once he has had his fill.

[Estelindis]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Oh trust me: Gaider will make fans cry no matter what they say. He's like the Nimon thing from Doctor Who: he feeds on our faiths only to kill us off once he has had his fill.

To be honest, that's good.  Threads like these are a testament to how well he and his fellow writers make us care about the characters.  The feeling of being punched in the gut emotionally that I got at the end of DA:O is infinitely preferable to the anti-climactic sense of WTF that I got at the end of ME3.  But, honestly, I didn't appreciate it at the time as much as I should have.  I was so sad at how my Warden's story turned out that it never occurred to me that at least I wasn't simply feeling numb puzzlement.

Anyway, I hope that we do find out what happened to the Warden and/or Hawke some day.  I guess that part of the reason that I feel like I'd like to play these characters again is the sense that surely Bioware made them vanish for a good reason, and why shouldn't that reason by another playable plot?  If it was going to be something that they simply did without the player having any say, it seems to me that Bioware were laying a whole load of restrictions on themselves.  Given the problems importing even, say, Alistair or Zevran's faces to DA2 (tragic!), a player-generated face might be even harder.  That's going to apply even more with the new engine, I bet.  So if Bioware want Hawke and/or the Warden to fulfil some story role, they've kinda limited themselves to not showing their faces.  Voice acting might be an issue for the Warden - who knows what s/he sounded like?  All in all, for these reasons and many others stated in the thread, I have a hard time imagining that we'll see them again "in the flesh."  So how effectively will whatever it is that they're going to do be implemented?  I feel so sure that there has to be something - otherwise why would they have disappeared in all cases?

[Versus Omnibus]

Estelindis wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Oh trust me: Gaider will make fans cry no matter what they say. He's like the Nimon thing from Doctor Who: he feeds on our faiths only to kill us off once he has had his fill.

To be honest, that's good.  Threads like these are a testament to how well he and his fellow writers make us care about the characters.  The feeling of being punched in the gut emotionally that I got at the end of DA:O is infinitely preferable to the anti-climactic sense of WTF that I got at the end of ME3.  But, honestly, I didn't appreciate it at the time as much as I should have.  I was so sad at how my Warden's story turned out that it never occurred to me that at least I wasn't simply feeling numb puzzlement.

Anyway, I hope that we do find out what happened to the Warden and/or Hawke some day.  I guess that part of the reason that I feel like I'd like to play these characters again is the sense that surely Bioware made them vanish for a good reason, and why shouldn't that reason by another playable plot?  If it was going to be something that they simply did without the player having any say, it seems to me that Bioware were laying a whole load of restrictions on themselves.  Given the problems importing even, say, Alistair or Zevran's faces to DA2 (tragic!), a player-generated face might be even harder.  That's going to apply even more with the new engine, I bet.  So if Bioware want Hawke and/or the Warden to fulfil some story role, they've kinda limited themselves to not showing their faces.  Voice acting might be an issue for the Warden - who knows what s/he sounded like?  All in all, for these reasons and many others stated in the thread, I have a hard time imagining that we'll see them again "in the flesh."  So how effectively will whatever it is that they're going to do be implemented?  I feel so sure that there has to be something - otherwise why would they have disappeared in all cases?

Oh, believe me: I'm with Gaider in regards to his position on the Warden and Hawke reappearing. I just have a feeling that we'll most likely never see them again. I could be wrong though.

[Teddie Sage]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's not impossible. Doing it to make sense, however, may mean that the narrative ideas we have in place would need to change, however.

Plus there's just the idea of "doing new stuff with new characters" which is where my bias lies.

Fair enough. I just really wanted to have some closure for this character.

[TheRealJayDee]

Sylvianus wrote...

If each game is about a new hero, a new story, how about you end stories properly if you want to convince people with this format ? That seems to be a bit naive to think that people won't ask for answers or what is called extra stuff in the next games, ( even if there's a new hero ) if each time, there's something which prevents us to move on.

Gotta agree with this. The whole "Dragon Age is not about the respective protagonists, it's about Thedas" concept can work just fine, but I guess people would be more willing to let go of their previous characters if their stories wouldn't be sort of open-ended. Sure, unless they're 100% dead folks would likely still want to play as the Warden or Hawke again, but that's just natural, I guess. The fact that fans want closure for their beloved characters shouldn't be any kind of surprise and their desire shouldn't be seen as unreasonable imo.

It's all good if the Warden's and Hawke's disappearance are explained in DA:I in a satisfying way, though, but that's not going to be easy.

[ShadyKat]

 Why stop at the Warden and Hawke?! Let's add commander Shepard and Revan to the roster as well! Just make DA3 a a Bioware allstar game.<_<

[Zu Long]

ShadyKat wrote...

 Why stop at the Warden and Hawke?! Let's add commander Shepard and Revan to the roster as well! Just make DA3 a a Bioware allstar game.<_<

I know this is sarcasm, but just as a concept, a Bioware game composed of nothing but Bioware main characters would be awesome.

Modifié par Zu Long, 15 août 2013 - 05:14 .

[MisanthropePrime]

I was actually kinda hoping for Hawke as a companion. The warden has too many variables, but Hawke has a set personality (or, well, one of three personalities) so we could at least know how (s)he might respond to certain situations.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
That you ended up with Leliana in DAO doesn't mean she suddenly stops being her own character. Problems DO lie with "Warden has disappeared" since, as Maria says, it suddenly makes her think about it. But Leliana's presence? Mostly leaves me going "meh."

Sure. I liked the ending epilogue in Throne of Bhaal if you romanced Jaheira. Basically saying that Jaheira was her own person and that Jaheira and the PC might not always be together but they were never far apart. That works for me.

Now, you get to Leliana or Morrigan or Alistair or some other past love interest type character and bring them back to DA3 minus the old Player Character and that can potentially be problematic. Because in a lot of cases, to the player, the last time you saw or heard from your old PC was with them going off into the sunset with their love interest, be it Morrigan or Alistair or Leliana or whoever. So then you bring back the old love interest character but the old PC is no where to be found? Where are they? What happened? You have to in some way at least answer why the old PC isn't around.

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I disagree with the mandate that some have that because they liked the character in the first game, we should keep shoe horning extra stuff for the character (or even that the game *must* be about the first game's character). I actually *liked* that KOTOR 2 wasn't about the player controlling Revan.

Although KOTOR 2 was basically all about Revan though, when you think about it. Its not about shoehorning in extra stuff for past PC's in a new game but it is about finishing off stories and leaving them be. Or if you're going to dredge up past characters, go all the way. It just seems very conflicting to read quotes how Dragon Age isn't about one character but the entire world. Yet, isn't it the characters that make the world interesting? And in a BioWare game you're interacting with characters through your own player character. And so, in the absence of having a big time jump or complete geographic shift that totally removes any old characters from a new game, it feels very odd to me that old characters like Leliana or Morrigan or Alistair pop up time and time again, yet your old Player Character doesn't?

Allan Schumacher wrote...
For each "the Warden would have been a perfect vehicle" type of comment, I can just as easily say "but he doesn't need to be. Thedas is a big place with lots of people and lots of stories" Never mind the continuity issues that arise unless we make every campaign become increasingly high level campaigns.

Sure, but then I don't want to fight a single damn darkspawn as the Inquistor in DA3. Leave that for the Wardens. That's their job. Yet, if the story called for something Warden-ly to happen, it would seem fantastic to me to simply jump over to the POV of our old Warden PC and deal with things in their shoes. Or if it was just interacting with an old character who the Warden (or Hawke) has an established relationship with, as opposed to trying to start from scratch with the new PC.

I keep reading and hearing that sort of "Dragon Age isn't about any one character!" or "Thedas is a big place with lots of people and lots of stories!" sort of thing, and yet we seem to keep getting the same characters churned back up, all except any old player characters, which simply makes their absence stick out like a sore thumb.

If that's truly what you guys want Dragon Age to be, then look no farther than A Song of Ice and Fire- that is truly the story about a world as told through the various POVs of many different characters. It just seems like a MASSIVE waste of potential to not jump back, at least occassionally, to the POV of an old PC should the story call for it or to enhance the player's agency. I mean, as Chris Avellone has said, thats sort of what they were ultimately going to shoot for with a possible KOTOR 3, with having the Exile and Revan team up. That still seems awesome to me. And at the end of DA2, you guys have basically left the same hooks as you had post KOTOR 2, with both old PCs, having disappeared and prime for reappearance.

I'm not saying I want old PCs to just show up for a heavy handed cameo but rather not utilizing multiple PCs, if even for simply a narrative sense, in the Dragon Age games is just supremely disappointing and a tremendous waste of potential for the series, based on what its supposed to be all about.

Maybe once GTA V popularizes multiple protagonists and sells a billion copies then you guys will take note:wizard:

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 août 2013 - 07:30 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Twisted Path wrote...

Edit:

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Addendum to my above post: I understand that not everyone wants to know about the Warden and Hawke because they just want to know about them, but rather because of the
ending of DA2.

Yeah, I think this is definitly the case. If it weren't for the weird quasi-cliffhanger ending of DA2 I think there would be a lot less speculation about or desire to see the mysteriously disapeared protagonists.

I think it's less the case, however.  If Hawke/Warden had neatly gone off into retirement, you'd still get people clamouring for more.  A lot of them.  There's no shortage of people that conjure up justifications when it mostly just comes across as "I really like this character and want to continue on because I have the expectation that because I enjoyed being this character in a prior game, I am reasonably assurred I'll continue enjoying the character in a new game."  Though it's definitely the cynical side of me.

It's easy to say "Yeah I would have been okay with that" when that isn't what a person is actually faced with.  People still clamoured for more Revan long before people learned that Revan was effectively not a part of KOTOR 2, and they continued to do so once they learned he disappeared.  It's frankly a tough spot, however.

It's evident, however, that fanbases in general clamour for what is familiar, because they have those emotional attachments (I feel this is also why sequels, movies or otherwise, often struggle because they lose the novelty factor that the original had).  If you ever ask a fanbase what they'd like from their favourite developer, very rarely is it "something new that has never been done before."  Some may, but the loudest voice is always "Sequel to a game I really liked, because the implict assumption that comes with that is that I'll enjoy it just as much as the prior game."


It's a HUGE risk though, for the player's impressions.  DA2 is a pretty divided game.  I'm not convinced that if we had effectively just replaced Hawke with the Warden, the people that found the game frustrating and so forth would have been happier because at least it was the Warden.

[Dutchess]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think it's less the case, however.  If Hawke/Warden had neatly gone off into retirement, you'd still get people clamouring for more.  A lot of them.  There's no shortage of people that conjure up justifications when it mostly just comes across as "I really like this character and want to continue on because I have the expectation that because I enjoyed being this character in a prior game, I am reasonably assurred I'll continue enjoying the character in a new game."  Though it's definitely the cynical side of me.

It's easy to say "Yeah I would have been okay with that" when that isn't what a person is actually faced with.  People still clamoured for more Revan long before people learned that Revan was effectively not a part of KOTOR 2, and they continued to do so once they learned he disappeared.  It's frankly a tough spot, however.

It's evident, however, that fanbases in general clamour for what is familiar, because they have those emotional attachments (I feel this is also why sequels, movies or otherwise, often struggle because they lose the novelty factor that the original had).  If you ever ask a fanbase what they'd like from their favourite developer, very rarely is it "something new that has never been done before."  Some may, but the loudest voice is always "Sequel to a game I really liked, because the implict assumption that comes with that is that I'll enjoy it just as much as the prior game."


It's a HUGE risk though, for the player's impressions.  DA2 is a pretty divided game.  I'm not convinced that if we had effectively just replaced Hawke with the Warden, the people that found the game frustrating and so forth would have been happier because at least it was the Warden.

I can only speak for myself, but for me the issue really does lie with the cliffhanger-like disappearances of the protagonists. It's not that I am so strongly attached to my Warden that I can't play without him/her. DAO had a fine ending. A great ending. After hours of hard work, the Warden's story was over. I was perfectly fine with that, and I enjoyed the epilogue slide that suggested my Warden was wreaking havoc in Antiva with Zevran.
Moving on to DA2, I had no problem with having to play a new character. The same would be the case for DA3, if not for the way DA2 ended. By ending the game with the "no coincidence" disappearance of both protagonists, Bioware dragged them on to the sequel. Bioware uses the attachments players have to their characters to get them to buy the next game, but when players react to this strategy by indeed wanting to know more of their character, or even playing them (the disappearance sounds like trouble after all, so surely you must find/fight your way out of it), we get to hear that Dragon Age is about the world, not the characters, and that we've had our closure and the game is moving on.  If that was the case, then Bioware should have left the Warden (and Hawke) alone. Moving on and letting go is a lot easier when you don't have the feeling there is still someting important happening to your old character.

Maybe Gaider or another writer has a brilliant master plan which needs the Warden and Hawke to disappear. If so, I guess that would be great, and of course it is within their right to execute such a plan. But I think it was a mistake to end DA2 with a tease for such a plan. If the next game needs to drag the old protagonists up, it would have been better to start with it in that game so that you can follow through with it immediately. 

[TheRealJayDee]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If Hawke/Warden had neatly gone off into retirement, you'd still get people clamouring for more.  A lot of them.

Definitely. I just don't see though how the logical conclusion from this is to confuse the players who would've been happy with retiring their characters with a "your character mysteriously disappeared from his retirement..." scenario, which automatically seems to come with an implicit  "...for reasons we have yet to unveil" message. Something like this logically leads to people believing/hoping their beloved character still has a role to play and might return.

As the others have said it's also pretty difficult to leave a character you got attached to behind when persons who were important in his personal story are brought back to be major players in the events of later stories, like Leliana and Morrigan. If the following games didn't use a partially familiar cast there would be less "where's my damn character?" questions. The characters and interactions with them are probably the strongest aspect of the DA games, and thus the feelings regarding them are naturally strong as well. 

Anyways, I just hope all Dragon Age protagonist will have gotten some closure at the end of DA:I.

renjility wrote...

Maybe Gaider or another writer has a brilliant master plan which needs the Warden and Hawke to disappear. If so, I guess that would be great, and of course it is within their right to execute such a plan. But I think it was a mistake to end DA2 with a tease for such a plan.

Yup. We'll see.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 15 août 2013 - 09:30 .

[Estelindis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think it's less the case, however. If Hawke/Warden had neatly gone off into
retirement, you'd still get people clamouring for more. A lot of them. There's
no shortage of people that conjure up justifications when it mostly just comes
across as "I really like this character and want to continue on because I have the
expectation that because I enjoyed being this character in a prior game, I am
reasonably assurred I'll continue enjoying the character in a new game." Though
it's definitely the cynical side of me.

It's easy to say "Yeah I would have been okay with that" when that isn't what a
person is actually faced with. People still clamoured for more Revan long before
people learned that Revan was effectively not a part of KOTOR 2, and they
continued to do so once they learned he disappeared. It's frankly a tough spot,
however.

I think that I see what you mean. Personally, I didn't mind that Revan wasn't the PC in KotOR 2, but I did mind that "his" eventual reappearance was sub-optimal from a writing point of view (just my opinion).

I just don't see what the problem is with leaving the ending more open-ended than "they disappeared." This is particularly the case when the PC is made to choose to disappear (which we still don't know is the case with our DA PCs). To me, it feels like an anti-reward. After playing through a game, an ending is generally seen as a reward. That doesn't mean that it has to be a happy or ego-gratifying ending. I think it means that it should be thematically consistent with the game thus far (though, again, that doesn't mean no surprises). In Bioware games, we generally get a good bit of choice, so I would expect an ending to give choice as well (and DA:O did, until the whole disappearance thing). This is assuming that we weren't going to play the PC in another game. If we were going to play them in another game, I can see what the point would be in shunting them all into one situation, to give a single starting point for the next game. But to make them all disappear, when not all of them would have chosen to do so, and then not being able to play them, just strikes me as a colossal waste. (Assuming that they did choose to disappear and weren'y kidnapped or something, like the start of BG2.)

[Allan Schumacher]

I can see what the point would be in shunting them all into one situation, to give a single starting point for the next game. But to make them all disappear, when not all of them would have chosen to do so, and then not being able to play them, just strikes me as a colossal waste.

Well, unless the game didn't actually have all that much choice at the end, you'll still run into "not all of them would have chosen to be shunted into the same situation, so I think it's still 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

As for why "they disappeared" came into play, I don't really know for sure (especially for the Warden). Hawke's is much more of a "we wanted to expand on it in the expansion pack" pooch screw since, well, it was canceled and now we need to roll with that. Which IS a valid criticism.

I personally like to think that the Warden, however, went on a giant donair binge and couldn't be arsed to be disturbed. >.>

There may have been some idea on bringing the characters back, but as the expansion pack shows us, plans can change. Especially if it was more just an idea at the time. I mean, looking at DAO I definitely get a greater picture of "this was a stand alone game that was maybe not really written to have a sequel" given the more elaborate epilogues.

Could it be have been handled better? Sure I guess. I'm a bit out of my element as I'm not a writer and certainly have not contributed much to the lore.

Clearly we recognize "people enjoyed the characters from the first games" since we've shown that we're open to bringing them back (I'd argue Morrigan and Varric are their respective game's most popular characters). I do think, however, it's possible (and plausible) for both of them to be involved in some ways without requiring extensive references to either Hawke or the Warden, however.

It's that tricky spot of balancing what the player is keen on wanting to know more about, and recognizing that these characters are effectively interacting with a new entity.


I think there's also a degree of extreme analysis that comes with fandom (which isn't meant as a pejorative. Just that people that get invested start to go over things with a fine tooth comb). I remember when Michael Biehn came to Edmonton to promote a movie. There was a Q&A session with him and someone asked him about some detail that they had noticed in the movie Aliens, and in that person's mind this detail was some super cryptic nod that was meaningful. You could see his body language sag when Michael responded that he doesn't recall and that it was probably just something that people didn't pay much attention to or didn't bother thinking it was significant one way or another.

I will full on defer to the fanbase if anyone were to ever ask me about finer details of Dragon Age lore, because there's much better chance that you guys would actually know those answers.

[Allan Schumacher]

But I think it was a mistake to end DA2 with a tease for such a plan.

I agree.

[Allan Schumacher]

Something like this logically leads to people believing/hoping their beloved character still has a role to play and might return.

I think people do themselves a disservice with this, however. People love our characters (I do too!) but if you fixate on wanting something specific from a previous game, you compromise your ability to fully appreciate and enjoy the new experiences because you're always measuring it.

It's part of the issue with "spiritual successors" as well, and game companies (BioWare included) should probably be more wary of drawing such analogues. There are many that were let down with DAO because it wasn't the BG2 successor they wanted. There are many that are already let down with Project Eternity because they contributed hoping for a specific type of game and now feel as though the guys at Obsidian are doing something else instead and they feel let down.

I actually enjoyed BioShock less than I otherwise would have, simply because I was told it was a successor to System Shock 2, by which it failed to deliver for me. It's in part why I try to media blackout myself once I decide I want a game.


Anyways, it's late and I should get to sleep. I'm not sure if this post even really has a point at this moment... but I figure "I've been deleting and retyping what I was writing for the past 5 minutes or so, so I should probably stop."

Good night.

[Estelindis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well, unless the game didn't actually have all that much choice at the end, you'll still run into "not all of them would have chosen to be shunted into the same situation, so I think it's still 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Of course, but at least we would have the benefit of more time playing the character to offset that.  Unless the shunting-method was spectacularly poorly-chosen (which is unlikely for Bioware but not impossible), I think that the majority of people will be willing to accept it as the price of another expansion or game with the character.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As for why "they disappeared" came into play, I don't really know for sure (especially for the Warden). Hawke's is much more of a "we wanted to expand on it in the expansion pack" pooch screw since, well, it was canceled and now we need to roll with that. Which IS a valid criticism.

More valid from a certain point of view, but given that the writing team actually meant to spend more time with Hawke I'd actually say that the criticism is less valid.  I mean they genuinely intended to do it.  I don't think it's fair to hold them accountable for the cancellation of the expansion.  So, oddly enough, I don't actually mind as much with Hawke because I can better understand why they wrote her/his disappearance that way.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

There may have been some idea on bringing the characters back, but as the expansion pack shows us, plans can change. Especially if it was more just an idea at the time. I mean, looking at DAO I definitely get a greater picture of "this was a stand alone game that was maybe not really written to have a sequel" given the more elaborate epilogues.

I think that makes sense.  However, I hope that the expansion of the initial game into a franchise doesn't mean that we'll never have endings as diverse and rich as DA:O's (pre-disappearance) again.  From the Landsmeet until the coronation, there's a huge amount of reactivity to player choice.  It must have taken a massive amount of work from the writers and I loved it.

Also, in fairness, I have to say that I went back and re-read the DA:O epilogues and it strikes me that at least each Warden had a few years to do whatever it was that the player chose.  Maybe Hawke would have had something similar if that expansion had come out.  Hawke's epilogue is a lot more threadbare by comparison.  In that way, at least, I think I do agree that criticism is more justified when it comes to Hawke.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think there's also a degree of extreme analysis that comes with fandom.

No argument there!  Guilty as charged.    It's part of the fun, isn't it? 

Modifié par Estelindis, 15 août 2013 - 11:13 .