429 réponses à ce sujet

[Conquerthecity]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I would like, perhaps, is that we hear of them, but only in the most vague terms, maybe in form of rumors. For instance, if you romanced Isabela it could be rumored that Hawke was seen in her company at some port city, getting off a ship with a dubious reputation. This is very plausible, and since it's a rumor, the few people for whom even this little is too specific can say "It's a rumor. It's not true".  

I would be extremely happy with something like this. Especially since most of my Hawkes romanced Isabela. 

For the Warden, I wouldn't mind if it were confirmed that he/she did some really BAMF stuff and then had to answer their Calling. Then their LI could be suitably torn up about it. I know some people wouldn't like that, though. 

[Jessabeth]

So for those people who expect to be able to play as their old characters, why? Did you play as the Warden in DA2? No. Is it because the end of two mentioned that it was odd/coincidental that two characters disappeared? Well, that's not necessarily something that's true. To Cassandra & Leliana, it may have seemed to be important.
"But they wouldn't say it if it didn't mean something!!" That's not necessarily true. If I recall correctly, David Gaider mentioned that Sandal's prophecy, something that was randomly uttered during the game, meant nothing and was just a bit of fun. (I could be wrong, but I think I'm recalling this correctly. xD Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Essentially, I'm saying that just because a character thinks something is important, doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

Do you think that it makes sense for the game to spend resources on Warden and Hawke recreation and manipulation? This series is not about the Warden or Hawk. It is an overarcing story that takes into account each of their histories. I'm willing to bet that the next dragon age won't have anything to do with any of the previous PCs. Will you constantly expect to keep bringing them back if the PCs don't die?

I mean, I loved my old characters as much as everyone else and want to know what happen to them, but I don't think it's feasible to bring them in and have them be playable characters.

[ElitePinecone]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

But I think it was a mistake to end DA2 with a tease for such a plan.

I agree.

Isn't it kinda bizarre that the higher-ups would've authorised a cliffhanger/teaser ending for DA2 without being absolutely sure that the expansion would exist and Hawke would get a proper ending?

If there was the possibility of the expansion pack not happening why would you risk leaving people dissatisfied with the conclusion of Hawke's arc?

If the Xpack was cancelled due to poor DA2 sales I can kinda understand why it was still expected to proceed during DA2's development, but it's still kinda frustrating that the original plan was to leave us with a cliffhanger and end the story arc via a paid expansion that (as it turned out) didn't go ahead anyway.

[mannitt]

In Exile wrote...

Maybe the Warden hogged the blankets? The implication that a relationship has to stay in a state of ideal fan-fiction statis over a decade is silly. The problem isn't that Morrigan shows up by herself - it's that there's no way to adequately allow the player (as the Warden) to deal with that 10 year gap. As a result, the player has to be railroaded with respect to their old character. 

But the only way to avoid that is to either only have a direct sequel with the same protagonist, or kill your protagonist off (whether via time passing or some endgame sacrifice). 

Which makes that all much less interesting, since you could have had a bunch of different motivations for going through the Eluvian with Morrigan.

How does it make it less interesting at all? It's not as if you as the player forcefully have your mind wiped of all the things that happened in DA:O. 

Sure, but with certain of hose returning characters you have to recognize where they were last left off from the POV of the player. Something like the Warden that romanced Morrigan and went through the Eluvian with her makes Morrigan's reappearance much different than Cullen or Varric showing up again in DA3, since those guys didn't end DA2 walking off into the sunset with Hawke.

Again, why should other characters exist in a state of stasis over years because of some interaction with the player? I appreciate - and agree - with the objection that having character development without the player present is bad. 

Why do we go back to the idea that affections have to stay fixed over decades? Maybe Morrigan or Leliana dumped the Warden because they found someone better or got tired of getting into arguments, like the majority of real relationships. 

The biggest thing I have with this opinion is that it nullifies any amount of fictional romance that happened. I'm the first to admit real life love or romance isn't as everlasting as fiction claims over and over. That's the point of fiction though. No matter how close to reality it may be, it still isn't. So if you're going to include a detailed, very well written romance, what's the point of acting like it was no big deal. At least in DA2, with Zevran, if he was romanced he doesn't have sex with Isabella and looks very much broken hearted, but even he doesn't say what happened to the Warden.
Yes ten years is a long time, but still if there is no follow up to it. Then it was more or less a pointless use of time and money for both developers and players. We are use to happily ever after, but not for no explanation why they're not together in a new story.
I agree that neither Hawke nor the Warden should be companions. Technical issues aside. Story wise it doesn't make sense either. But to either show up or at least have someone close to him/her, such as the romance at least say something. This may or may not be important information necessarily for the inquisitor, but remember we will have Cassandra and she was part of a search for Hawke and possibly the Warden. Plus the Warden couldnt have disappeared that long before the end of DA2. My Warden left with Morrigan,  but even with the King of Ferelden quest with Alistair, the Warden was still mentioned showing up in Denerim. So maybe that shouldn't matter. But why? Maybe we are way to invested in the stories. But again isn't that part of fiction? Anywho, I still am invested in the world regardless of the characters. Even though I love the characters also. So in the end it is still up to the writers and rest of the DA team. I just still hope they have some grand plan in the works.

[atheelogos]

Recruiting them sounds like a very bad idea that's doomed to failure if they ever tried to do it.

[Reidbynature]

An interesting idea, but I think they are probably better left off as non-recruitable npc's. It would be great to fight alongside them at some point, but I'd be hesitant about adding them to the party.

[Oasis_JS]

mannitt wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Maybe the Warden hogged the blankets? The implication that a relationship has to stay in a state of ideal fan-fiction statis over a decade is silly. The problem isn't that Morrigan shows up by herself - it's that there's no way to adequately allow the player (as the Warden) to deal with that 10 year gap. As a result, the player has to be railroaded with respect to their old character. 

But the only way to avoid that is to either only have a direct sequel with the same protagonist, or kill your protagonist off (whether via time passing or some endgame sacrifice). 

Which makes that all much less interesting, since you could have had a bunch of different motivations for going through the Eluvian with Morrigan.

How does it make it less interesting at all? It's not as if you as the player forcefully have your mind wiped of all the things that happened in DA:O. 

Sure, but with certain of hose returning characters you have to recognize where they were last left off from the POV of the player. Something like the Warden that romanced Morrigan and went through the Eluvian with her makes Morrigan's reappearance much different than Cullen or Varric showing up again in DA3, since those guys didn't end DA2 walking off into the sunset with Hawke.

Again, why should other characters exist in a state of stasis over years because of some interaction with the player? I appreciate - and agree - with the objection that having character development without the player present is bad. 

Why do we go back to the idea that affections have to stay fixed over decades? Maybe Morrigan or Leliana dumped the Warden because they found someone better or got tired of getting into arguments, like the majority of real relationships. 

The biggest thing I have with this opinion is that it nullifies any amount of fictional romance that happened. I'm the first to admit real life love or romance isn't as everlasting as fiction claims over and over. That's the point of fiction though. No matter how close to reality it may be, it still isn't. So if you're going to include a detailed, very well written romance, what's the point of acting like it was no big deal. At least in DA2, with Zevran, if he was romanced he doesn't have sex with Isabella and looks very much broken hearted, but even he doesn't say what happened to the Warden.
Yes ten years is a long time, but still if there is no follow up to it. Then it was more or less a pointless use of time and money for both developers and players. We are use to happily ever after, but not for no explanation why they're not together in a new story.
I agree that neither Hawke nor the Warden should be companions. Technical issues aside. Story wise it doesn't make sense either. But to either show up or at least have someone close to him/her, such as the romance at least say something. This may or may not be important information necessarily for the inquisitor, but remember we will have Cassandra and she was part of a search for Hawke and possibly the Warden. Plus the Warden couldnt have disappeared that long before the end of DA2. My Warden left with Morrigan,  but even with the King of Ferelden quest with Alistair, the Warden was still mentioned showing up in Denerim. So maybe that shouldn't matter. But why? Maybe we are way to invested in the stories. But again isn't that part of fiction? Anywho, I still am invested in the world regardless of the characters. Even though I love the characters also. So in the end it is still up to the writers and rest of the DA team. I just still hope they have some grand plan in the works.

same here.. the way...cass talk..is that..she needs.. Hawke..to help be a person of reason for the mages..    that's the vibe i got...so hawke would have to pop out in da story i dunno if in da:I or the game after. As in my game..my hawke side with the mages..   i guess i am saying it again.. the vibe i got from cass..is like..she need to find lady hawke..she can help talk it out with the mages..

So i keep thinking the PC in DA:I might look out for hawke as she might be needed to reason with benthy or the other mages.. i dunno.. but i do not think think she will be playiable but a non playaiable character .. =p   any how.. i also feel their is some grand plan in the works for hawke..its the way da 2 ended.(Heck she was the ripple effect..that start mage civil war )  to me the ending was .hinting thats it not over yet for hawke. yet . I mean it keeps making  think they need her  to be a person of reason.. or at least i guess the in DA:I you can obtain her support for the Inquisition that would make mages be like..hey maybe we should ally with Inquistion since hawke said its ok

[Key_of_Twilight]

Honestly it would be interesting to see The Warden appearing at some point in time in the game. Hopefully with their LI after they had met once again. :3 For Hawke for him / her to appear like half-way through the game with some important information with their LI by their side. >.> Or not.. if you decide to go the whole FOREVER ALONE. >->

[Caiden012]

I am fine with them making an appearance but making them full companions would be a very bad idea. Everyone RPed their characters differently and made different choices that would reflect the PC's personality. It would be far to difficult to put your PC's personality into the game without it making players mad. BioWare can't get inside your head and find out how you wanted the Warden or Hawke to end up and so putting them in as fully voiced companions with extensive dialogue and attempting to reflect their personalities to make them similar to the way you roleplayed them would only set players up for disappointment

[Nerevar-as]

So make them PCs. Personally I´d mention they were up to something during the game and leave the events themselves for DLCs/expansions.

You can also have a party for some time with the 3 PCs, it would be an interesting experiment of roleplaying for the players.

[Allan Schumacher]

Isn't it kinda bizarre that the higher-ups would've authorised a cliffhanger/teaser ending for DA2 without being absolutely sure that the expansion would exist and Hawke would get a proper ending?

Nothing is absolute, though. When DA2 shipped, no one on the team would have believed that there wouldn't have been an expansion for it.


And while I'm not privy to the reasoning why, stuff like sales probably had an impact (both of DA2 as well as Awakening)

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 16 août 2013 - 10:10 .

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Isn't it kinda bizarre that the higher-ups would've authorised a cliffhanger/teaser ending for DA2 without being absolutely sure that the expansion would exist and Hawke would get a proper ending?

Nothing is absolute, though. When DA2 shipped, no one on the team would have believed that there wouldn't have been an expansion for it.


And while I'm not privy to the reasoning why, stuff like sales probably had an impact (both of DA2 as well as Awakening)

I felt like Witch Hunt wasn´t the original plan to finishing Origins either.

Anyway, but whose idea was to finish Hawke´s story in an expansion? Origins´s tale had a clear ending, and Awakening was stand alone, DA2 however was marketed as Hawke´s tale but you left the end out of it? To sell it apart? <_<

[Allan Schumacher]

If that's the way you wish to look at it, then fine. Feel free to hate us for it as being all money grubbing, if you like, as well.

There's a very large difference in the way that DAO ends in terms of "lets keep making games in this setting" as well. Which is why you find dozens of topics that crop about about people being worried that future games will crap all over their epilogues they received in DAO.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 16 août 2013 - 11:08 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that's the way you wish to look at it, then fine. Feel free to hate us for it as being all money grubbing, if you like, as well.

Well, Hawke's story didn't receive the conclusion that was orginally planned, because this conclusion would have come in the form of an expansion, which then wasn't finished for a variety of reasons. Without any hate or such, these seem to be the facts, and I think it's fair to say that the way the whole thing went down was pretty unfortunate, on many levels.

I just hope that DA:I won't suffer from anything like that!

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 16 août 2013 - 11:28 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Baldur's Gate didn't conclude the Bhaalspawn's story either, however.  Never mind the ending of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, we had intended to have more content for Hawke after DA2. Although the rise of the champion was, as far as I'm concerned, the plot of DA2 which was resolved.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 17 août 2013 - 12:17 .

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that's the way you wish to look at it, then fine. Feel free to hate us for it as being all money grubbing, if you like, as well.

There's a very large difference in the way that DAO ends in terms of "lets keep making games in this setting" as well. Which is why you find dozens of topics that crop about about people being worried that future games will crap all over their epilogues they received in DAO.

Remember back when expansions and DLCs felt like they added to the full game and not like pieces cut from it? It wasn´t that long ago. 

BTW, I don´t hate people about videogames (or other hobbies), I just get a bit annoyed.

The epilogues battle has already been lost thanks to DA2 Anders & Justice... unlike Merrill, who was along very little time, so the personality change from kind of no-nonsense to kind of ditz wasn´t that jarring, Anders was hardly the same character, and the merge didn´t justify it.

[Versus Omnibus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Baldur's Gate didn't conclude the Bhaalspawn's story either, however.  Never mind the ending of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, we had intended to have more content for Hawke after DA2. Although the rise of the champion was, as far as I'm concerned, the plot of DA2 which was resolved.

Are you saying we'll never find out what happened to the Warden and Hawke?

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Baldur's Gate didn't conclude the Bhaalspawn's story either, however.  Never mind the ending of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, we had intended to have more content for Hawke after DA2. Although the rise of the champion was, as far as I'm concerned, the plot of DA2 which was resolved.

That was the end of Act II, so why not stop the game there? Stupid as the Arishok duel was, the qunari uprising was a much better climax than Orsino and Meredith going nuts in order to get one extra pointless boss fight, and after all becoming viscount only happens in one path and was just a side note.

[Allan Schumacher]

Remember back when expansions and DLCs felt like they added to the full game and not like pieces cut from it? It wasn´t that long ago.

Well, Tales of the Sword Coast was pretty much entirely cut content. Given that I rarely feel that expansions or DLC "feel like they are pieces cut from games" (and felt this way even before working at BioWare), then just as gamers, we're at a pretty fundamental disconnect at this point. If you feel we intentionally cut stuff out to milk money from you, and this annoys you, I don't expect you to reward us for this behaviour.

Are you saying we'll never find out what happened to the Warden and Hawke?

No, I am not saying that. Neither am I saying that you will.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 17 août 2013 - 12:31 .

[Nerevar-as]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Baldur's Gate didn't conclude the Bhaalspawn's story either, however.  Never mind the ending of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, we had intended to have more content for Hawke after DA2. Although the rise of the champion was, as far as I'm concerned, the plot of DA2 which was resolved.

Are you saying we'll never find out what happened to the Warden and Hawke?

I think we never found what happened to the NWN hero either, and to add insult to injury, the dangling plots get resolved by a different character. Not that the Aribeth issue makes any sense, I can believe she´d get excuted, as Nasher had already proved he would kill an innocent to appease the masses, but ending up in hell for getting brainwashed?

On the other side, I wish we´d never found out what happened to Revan and Exile.

[ElitePinecone]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Baldur's Gate didn't conclude the Bhaalspawn's story either, however.  Never mind the ending of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, we had intended to have more content for Hawke after DA2. Although the rise of the champion was, as far as I'm concerned, the plot of DA2 which was resolved.

That was the end of Act II, so why not stop the game there? Stupid as the Arishok duel was, the qunari uprising was a much better climax than Orsino and Meredith going nuts in order to get one extra pointless boss fight, and after all becoming viscount only happens in one path and was just a side note.

Well, it does look like Merideth/Orsino/Anders in Act III all contributed to the worldstate that we'll be partly dealing with in DAI, so the final act did advance the larger plot.

Though that does call into question exactly *how* on earth Hawke is meant to be (or was ever meant to be) the most important person in Thedas, especially if their only role in the larger story is to bumble around sparking conflicts then disappearing.

Surely as the person who leads an international organisation dedicated to resolving many of Thedas' most intractable problems, the Inquisitor is far more influential than Hawke ever was? Far more powerful, too, if they command armies and castles instead of a few companions in one city.

Or was Hawke meant to have a more important role in the expansion pack?

[Allan Schumacher]

Surely as the person who leads an international organisation dedicated to resolving many of Thedas' most intractable problems, the Inquisitor is far more influential than Hawke ever was? Far more powerful, too, if they command armies and castles instead of a few companions in one city.

Or was Hawke meant to have a more important role in the expansion pack?

I actually don't know for certain. Aside from the events of Kirkwall being seen as the Catalyst for the Mage-Templar crisis which helped put the world in a state it is now in. It's also probably a symptom of aiming for a smaller focus with the story.

[thebatmanreborn]

Seriously, after reading an article earlier today about a Bioware Writer quitting b/c of hate mail and death threats (I know that later it was corrected and she said that it was for family reasons)...but i was on the boards back during the DA2 and ME 3 ending. I've been gaming since the 90's and a Bioware fan since KOTOR (yes, I've played Baulder's Gate). And I was embarrassed. Not all of us liked the ending to ME3. I get it. But name calling, hate speech, harassment...just dumb.

So, whichever direction Bioware chooses to go with DAI, I'm down with it. My personal opinion is that the cliffhanger at the end of DA2 needs to be addressed. As a writer, as a reader, as a gamer, that's my feeling. However, I am not going to hate on Bioware and call them greedy if they don't. As long as the game is great, I'm going to enjoy it. Either way, I'm not going to attack Bioware. These guys and gals are putting in 40+ hours a week to deliver to us a quality product. And they usually deliver-ME1-3 (didn't like ME3 ending, but I loved ME3), KOTOR, Jade Empire, etc.

As a fellow artist, the one thing they need the most right now is support. Throw out new ideas, debate topics, but, as a community, let's steer away from the nasty hate speech/name calling nonsense. It's not as bad as it once was, but I see it pop up every now and again. And it gives Bioware fans a bad rep. I know a great number of Bioware fans who avoid these boards like a plague because of past negativity.

Anyway, back to topic. Like I said, I feel that the cliffhanger needs to be addressed. I would LOVE an expansion pack. I like expansion packs more than DLC. They offer a much richer experience. That's my two cents.

[ElitePinecone]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Surely as the person who leads an international organisation dedicated to resolving many of Thedas' most intractable problems, the Inquisitor is far more influential than Hawke ever was? Far more powerful, too, if they command armies and castles instead of a few companions in one city.

Or was Hawke meant to have a more important role in the expansion pack?

I actually don't know for certain. Aside from the events of Kirkwall being seen as the Catalyst for the Mage-Templar crisis which helped put the world in a state it is now in. It's also probably a symptom of aiming for a smaller focus with the story.

I'm not trying to be deliberately snarky or anything (I liked the idea of the smaller story but it probably could've been done much better) but I'm instinctively cynical that Hawke is described as "one of the most important characters in Thedas" right up until the marketing hype for the next game rolls around and suddenly we're told the Inquisitor is (eventually) powerful, influential, and seems to make a *far* bigger impact on the world than anything Hawke did in DA2.

It's probably an issue that most games with a new protagonist in each entry have - how each new character is made to feel at least as special and powerful as the other ones - but I really dislike the idea that devs can make those kind of sweeping statements as a hype-building thing without ever actually being accountable for them. If Hawke doesn't turn out to be that important in the scheme of things, aside from (very debatably) being a catalyst of the mage-templar war, doesn't that point to a larger problem with how your games are marketed with taglines and story promises that they sometimes can't deliver?

I know that in reality it'd be very odd if Hawke overshadowed the Inquisitor in DAI in terms of 'impact' in the world (and understandably, you want players in DAI to feel like they're important and powerful as the Inquisitor) but why make that sort of statement about Hawke if the intention was to move on anyway? 

[Miltialdes]

Clearly, If the two characters don't appear, ( I don't ask to be the main protagonist nor as companion) and there are no real explanation of their non action then for me that will block my future purchase.
It is non sense when everybody is in danger, that the previous heroes don't act.

About Hawke, two years ago, the commercial advertising talked about a new general in Theldas after he left Ferelden .... It is not the story we played in DA2. It is only someone who climbs the social hierarchy and have to choose at the end between the mage or the templer. What general?

My Warden is a hero! The world is in danger so he moves his ass.

If the event happens 50 years later, that will explain their non action. It is not the case and I repeat I want an satisfaction explanation.