429 réponses à ce sujet

[Volourn]

"We'll probably have enough problems with some folks chafing at any attempt by the writers to give the Warden or Hawke an actual place in the story ("why can't I choose it? Why can't you just write different versions of every conversation to accommodate all my previous choices as well as my headcanon?") despite them both now being NPC's... putting them in the party would only open up calls for the player to roleplay them just as they roleplay the Inquisitor. Three PC's, in other words."

People whine about everything. And, that's why we can't have more cool stuff.

This could be a good addition but I understand why you won't do it.

Modifié par Volourn, 12 août 2013 - 04:31 .

[David Gaider]

Taleroth wrote...
Is that a "We will probably have this problem because they're in the story as NPCs"
or
"We would have this problem if we even put them in the story as NPCs?"

It's a "no matter what we do with them in the story as NPC's". They've already "disappeared", so you already have some going "but my X wouldn't have disappeared! They went off to do Y!" Says who? "Says me!" Well, too bad. As of the end of the game, you are no longer playing that character. "But I don't like that! You should leave that character alone forever, and never bring up any other character as a cameo unless it's vitally important ot the story (and I approve of their usage)!"

Again: too bad, sorry. We'll do our best to respect the choices that were made, but take no responsibility for headcanon with regards to what you believe those choices led to after the end of the game in which those characters appeared.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

David, with all due respect, I think you are treating head canon a bit too heavily; namely, not as many people have one as you may think.

Me, my sister and my fiancé all believe different things about what happened to ours wardens, but those things are based on the epilogue of DA:O

Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

I would at least hope that things prior to the 'mysterious disappearance' still count; for example one of my wardens married alistair, and he says that he is still married to her in ACT III of DA2. 

Modifié par ManchesterUnitedFan1, 12 août 2013 - 04:41 .

[Secretlyapotato]

Volourn wrote...

People whine about everything. And, that's why we can't have more cool stuff.

This could be a good addition but I understand why you won't do it.

I personally wouldn't care all that much if my warden had some changes in personality since DAI is 13 years into the future.

And Hawke just has three basic personalities.

[Sylvianus]

David Gaider wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
Is that a "We will probably have this problem because they're in the story as NPCs"
or
"We would have this problem if we even put them in the story as NPCs?"

It's a "no matter what we do with them in the story as NPC's". They've already "disappeared", so you already have some going "but my X wouldn't have disappeared! They went off to do Y!" Says who? "Says me!" Well, too bad. As of the end of the game, you are no longer playing that character. "But I don't like that! You should leave that character alone forever, and never bring up any other character as a cameo unless it's vitally important ot the story (and I approve of their usage)!"

Again: too bad, sorry. We'll do our best to respect the choices that were made, but take no responsibility for headcanon with regards to what you believe those choices led to after the end of the game in which those characters appeared.

Hope it means what it seems to mean concretely. That you won't let the characters alone ( warden and Hawk ) without any answer about them, their life and their current situation in the next game. ( hopefully with a possible appearance )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 août 2013 - 04:44 .

[David Gaider]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

Some people also headcanon the epilogues. If Hawke romanced Isabela in DA2, it's mentioned that they remained together afterwards... but doing what? For how long? Some people claim that means they went sailing off on Isabela's new ship, and why would Hawke ever leave her side for even a single minute? We contradict that by saying Hawke disappeared and suddenly it's a clash with headcanon-- despite "Hawke remains with Isabela forever" not being a choice we offered.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it. We realize some people are very precious about their PC's, and we're not apt to go out of our way to have them do things that violate headcanon... but they obviously did something, and that involves a plot that may not be what someone had in mind. Just be aware.

Modifié par David Gaider, 12 août 2013 - 04:49 .

[Jerrybnsn]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

David, with all due respect, I think you are treating head canon a bit too heavily; namely, not as many people have one as you may think.

I don't have any head canon of my Warden after the Witch Hunt DLC.  Yet the world of Thedas keeps going down the crapper and I have no idea what I'm doing.  There's my problem with no playable warden in the future.

I'm not the one going around saying "Me and Zeveran own a tiki bar off of the shores of an island and could care less about Darkspawn, Morrigan, Fereldan, Dog,....."

[Taleroth]

David Gaider wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
Is that a "We will probably have this problem because they're in the story as NPCs"
or
"We would have this problem if we even put them in the story as NPCs?"

It's a "no matter what we do with them in the story as NPC's". They've already "disappeared", so you already have some going "but my X wouldn't have disappeared! They went off to do Y!" Says who? "Says me!" Well, too bad. As of the end of the game, you are no longer playing that character. "But I don't like that! You should leave that character alone forever, and never bring up any other character as a cameo unless it's vitally important ot the story (and I approve of their usage)!"

Again: too bad, sorry. We'll do our best to respect the choices that were made, but take no responsibility for headcanon with regards to what you believe those choices led to after the end of the game in which those characters appeared.

Not quite what I was asking, but I think it answered me incidentally. I never thought about people having problems with the PCs disappearing. It always seemed the neat way to wrap it up openly.

I'd like to hope that you try to consider intents behind such choices. That's part of what agency is about, after all. Agency is about those choices having their expected ends.

With how much Laidlaw likes to talk about expanding agency, I hope you improve on that. The Lelianna situation is a sore spot there.

Modifié par Taleroth, 12 août 2013 - 04:54 .

[Windninja47]

I don't know how successfully they could bring the previous PCs considering they're using a new engine. Maybe it would be possible without them looking dumb, I don't know.

[Lyria]

As long as the epilogues at the end count then the fan flak shouldn't be that bad. If my Warden found Morrigan, watched her leave through the Eluvian, and then hung out with the two other people and Dog while reading Flemeth's Grimoire (that's the present that Morrigan left the Warden right?) and that elven book then went back to her Leili then it shouldn't matter. That's what happened in the Epilogue of Origins as well as the dlc/expansion for one of my Wardens. This isn't head canon but inferred from the epilogues/in game events.  What they do after meeting back up is left open.  People shouldn't be so beholden to head canon if Epilogue's are left open. Like Hawke and Isabela just sailing? That makes no sense.  Hawke would still go do other things.  I mean, always hanging out with your lover is not healthy for a relationship, especially one inwhich said lover likes to make with the stabbing if angered/betrayed. 

Would it be too much, technically, to implement all the possible choices/consequences of that play through of Origins (I'm still working on 2, actually I just started it) and 2?

Modifié par protognosis, 12 août 2013 - 05:03 .

[Iron Fist]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

I personally wouldn't care all that much if my warden had some changes in personality since DAI is 13 years into the future.

And Hawke just has three basic personalities.

The only characteristics that matter about these two are their gender and race, as well as the MAJOR decisions they made (even though the Blight will always be stopped and the Mage-Templar War will always happen). I think this can all be covered in the intro.

[Lyria]

David Gaider wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

Some people also headcanon the epilogues. If Hawke romanced Isabela in DA2, it's mentioned that they remained together afterwards... but doing what? For how long? Some people claim that means they went sailing off on Isabela's new ship, and why would Hawke ever leave her side for even a single minute? We contradict that by saying Hawke disappeared and suddenly it's a clash with headcanon-- despite "Hawke remains with Isabela forever" not being a choice we offered.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it. We realize some people are very precious about their PC's, and we're not apt to go out of our way to have them do things that violate headcanon... but they obviously did something, and that involves a plot that may not be what someone had in mind. Just be aware.

I think as long as the Epilogues/In-game development of Hawke/Warden mesh with whatever their gig is in DA:I/DA:4 it wouldn't cause a huge uproar of fan fervor (I know wishful thinking). I think if you couldn't make the Hawke/Warden appear as they did in pepole'sgames then that would cause a bigger issue. 

[Ozzy]

Hopefully whatever it is that the Warden and Hawke end up doing isn't quite as jarring or displeasing as what happened to Revan and The Exile in TOR. I understand that everyone is going to have a different standard or reaction to whatever happens but from what I've seen, the reaction to The Exile and Revan in TOR was unanimously negative.

[Starwingz]

I wouldn't mind if Warden/Hawke make appearance. Any stuff we would hear from them would probably be based on choices made in past games (for example Warden that killed Architect would not support First Warden in Weisshaupt if he was making deals with talking darkspawn; Mage supporting Hawke would be fighting against templars,...). As for them being companions... just no lol. xD

Although them appearing in final boss battle like Nathaniel/Zevran did in DA2 would be awesome though.

[CronoDragoon]

The important thing to me is that I understand why Hawke and the Warden disappeared post-epilogues. Appearances may supplement this but are not necessary.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 août 2013 - 05:14 .

[Jerrybnsn]

ChaosHound wrote...

Although them appearing in final boss battle like Nathaniel/Zevran did in DA2 would be awesome though.

Darn, I have the PS3 glitch from Awakenings were Nathaniel never shows up.  Zeveran too?  Maybe I shouldn't keep killing him.

[PlasmaCheese]

David Gaider wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
Is that a "We will probably have this problem because they're in the story as NPCs"
or
"We would have this problem if we even put them in the story as NPCs?"

It's a "no matter what we do with them in the story as NPC's". They've already "disappeared", so you already have some going "but my X wouldn't have disappeared! They went off to do Y!" Says who? "Says me!" Well, too bad. As of the end of the game, you are no longer playing that character. "But I don't like that! You should leave that character alone forever, and never bring up any other character as a cameo unless it's vitally important ot the story (and I approve of their usage)!"

Again: too bad, sorry. We'll do our best to respect the choices that were made, but take no responsibility for headcanon with regards to what you believe those choices led to after the end of the game in which those characters appeared.

I'm not going to read into this too much, but I am actually glad to hear that. Judging by various BSNers responses, I thought y'all were completely afraid of doing ANYTHING with past protagonists and that they would be totallyyy avoided. I don't like the fact that the Warden disappeared (I can understand why my mage Hawke would), but I see now that you (the team) will do whatever you want with our PCs, and them disappearing maybe wasn't just a way to "erase" them. I, for one, don't care if my PCs are used. I just hope that *if* they appear in game, I get to recreate their look lol.

[dragondreamer]

I adjust my headcanons to the game, not the other way around, unless it's something I can easily do. I'll just be happy to see the Warden and Hawke again if they show up.

[CronoDragoon]

PlasmaCheese wrote...
 I just hope that *if* they appear in game, I get to recreate their look lol.

Personally I'd be fine with full body armor/robes to save resources.

[TheKomandorShepard]

ChaosHound wrote...

I wouldn't mind if Warden/Hawke make appearance. Any stuff we would hear from them would probably be based on choices made in past games (for example Warden that killed Architect would not support First Warden in Weisshaupt if he was making deals with talking darkspawn; Mage supporting Hawke would be fighting against templars,...). As for them being companions... just no lol. xD

Although them appearing in final boss battle like Nathaniel/Zevran did in DA2 would be awesome though.

Well my warden killed architect not because he was darkspawn only because he was psychopath my warden spare messenger because he wasn't like architect.

[PlasmaCheese]

CronoDragoon wrote...

PlasmaCheese wrote...
 I just hope that *if* they appear in game, I get to recreate their look lol.

Personally I'd be fine with full body armor/robes to save resources.

I wouldn't mind this. Recreating their look would just be an added bonus. ^^
Edit: Actualllyyyy, if they're covered in armor from head-to-toe, no face showing, I'd rather they be doing something awesome. ._. Not trying to talk to the Inquisitor for a cameo. Because that sucks.

Modifié par PlasmaCheese, 12 août 2013 - 05:31 .

[dragondreamer]

I admit I'd like to be able to recreate them, but I won't kick up a fuss if they end up going all full helmet on us.

[KainD]

@David Gaider

I would just really appreciate an answer to this, as I am very curious:

Warden and Hawke - two very different people. Each having their own business to deal with, on top of being controlled and shaped to some extent by the player. These people - why must they play any role in the upcoming events? There are so many choices that were made about them, and their character can be so different, that it seems that a completely new random character could play their role instead.

So I just wonder - why these 2 characters specifically? What's so special about them that it needs to be them, and not someone else?
There is not much of an answer I can get, due to inevitable involved spoilers that would be involved. But I would appreciate a general abstract answer.

[NRieh]

I never thought about people having problems with the PCs disappearing. It always seemed the neat way to wrap it up openly.

It...depends. *tries not to think of KOTOR2, Revan and SW:TOR, fails*
If "disappear" means "disappear" it's one thing.
If "disappear" means "appears few years after, in a novel and game, as a 'canon' defined character"... I'd rather pick former. But that's an extreme example.

Mr. Gaider's posts allow us to believe that he is aware of how touchy this subject is. I have some faith in their team, I hope they can pull it off.