429 réponses à ce sujet

[BackdoorPaco]

MevenSelas wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...

I can see them maybe becoming assets, if there were an Asset based system like ME3. Give them a brief cameo, then never see them again except for some numbers on your screen. That could work, and you're still technically "recruiting them".

And I can see a Warden/Hawke cameo working in which Hawke does all the talking. I think it's canonically stated a couple times, that no matter how you player him/her the Warden's a man/woman of few words.

Would they really be "assets," though? Ferelden is returning in DAI, but it's UNLIKELY that either one of these two characters has been there in at least 10 years. And it's even more unlikely that they have EVER been to Orlais. Besides, Hawke is "better" (or just adequate) at dealing with local matters in Kirkwall. If you gave Hawke something international to deal with, we might all be screwed.

Why wouldn't they? One is a (the?) Warden Commander and the other is the Champion of Kirkwall that may have sided with mages or templars.
They're obviously important people in their respective groups and, most likely, influential.

[Brockololly]

fiveforchaos wrote...
I think it's canonically stated a couple times, that no matter how you player him/her the Warden's a man/woman of few words.

Whether it is stated as such or not, that sentiment that "OH THE WARDEN DOESN'T TALK !" irks me. No, Gordon Freeman doesn't talk. The Warden talked plenty in Origins. In the game world, they talked just as much as anyone else. They weren't mute. They just weren't voice acted.

Granted, not having a voice actor for the Warden would make for problems if BioWare tried to present them in their cinematic heavy way, but that would just reinforce my thinking that they shouldn't bring them back onscreen unless they're going to present them in a non cinematic way and give the player temporary control over them.

[RogueWriter3201]

Brockololly wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...
I think it's canonically stated a couple times, that no matter how you player him/her the Warden's a man/woman of few words.

Whether it is stated as such or not, that sentiment that "OH THE WARDEN DOESN'T TALK !" irks me. No, Gordon Freeman doesn't talk. The Warden talked plenty in Origins. In the game world, they talked just as much as anyone else. They weren't mute. They just weren't voice acted.

Granted, not having a voice actor for the Warden would make for problems if BioWare tried to present them in their cinematic heavy way, but that would just reinforce my thinking that they shouldn't bring them back onscreen unless they're going to present them in a non cinematic way and give the player temporary control over them.

Don't agree that we should take control of either the Warden or Hawke regardless of how they appear; as Gaider has said their stories have, technically, been told so there isn't much point in us assuming direct control as it were. If the Warden appears the easiest solution to him/her not speaking would be to have us find, perhaps, a journal entry left by the Warden from whatever great task made them disappear in the first place where we see, via a flashback cutscene perhaps, what happened to our Warden.

Regardless of what Gaider has intended not everyone is going to like it though, but if David and the rest of the writer's pit feel that the Warden has an important role to play in closing out a plot or being the missing piece of the puzzle I'm okay with it. Yes, even if that means that my Warden, sadly, met his demise. It's not what I would have wanted in my "headcannon", but if that's what happens to him as dictated by the overall narrative of Dragon Age then so be it because DA has never been about one character, it's been about the world of Thedas and this particular age.

If it had been like Mass Effect where the story of one great trilogy focused on one protaganist, letting us make all his/her great choices only to rob us of making any real final choice for him/her at the end? Then I'd have a problem with the story being taken out of our hands obviously. But that's not the case here. At least, not as I see it or as David has tried to explain, ad nauseum, to those who are adamant that Dragon Age's story and the fate of it's PCs be dictacted by them even at the cost of the writer's vision or larger world plot. It's a tricky thing to be sure, especially when you're talking about Role Playing Games. 

Modifié par glenboy24, 13 août 2013 - 05:13 .

[DesmondHume]

Gaider, i want you to know that youre a pompous ass. Stop thinking so highly of yourself and thinking that only your ideas are correct and good, and maybe you'll actually produce a good cohesive plot unlike DA2

Modifié par DesmondHume, 13 août 2013 - 05:24 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Volourn wrote...

 This would be an awesome way to tie in the two previous games if we recruit our two previous PCs into our part 3 party. Imagine the stories and legends that can be made!

Our two previous PCs?

Sorry. There is only one MY PC. Hawke is never be my PC. He/She is always a NPC to me. ( Due to huge amount of AI control ). Do what you must with Hawke but leave my warden alone. There is only me who roleplay the warden in Origins and me alone know the warden's persona.

[Examurai]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Volourn wrote...

 This would be an awesome way to tie in the two previous games if we recruit our two previous PCs into our part 3 party. Imagine the stories and legends that can be made!

Our two previous PCs?

Sorry. There is only one MY PC. Hawke is never be my PC. He/She is always a NPC to me. ( Due to huge amount of AI control ). Do what you must with Hawke but leave my warden alone. There is only me who roleplay the warden in Origins and me alone know the warden's persona.

Well you'll be in for a disappointment since they are both considered to be NPC's now.

[Examurai]

MevenSelas wrote...

Examurai1 wrote...

The Warden got killed because he couldn't voice his disinterest towards the enemy that he didn't want to fight another war. 

Hawke died in a bar fight with a female dwarf, whom he claimed "didn't exist." If only he had chosen a more humorous tone...

Aye... nice one.

[BioFan (Official)]

Yalision wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

Some people also headcanon the epilogues. If Hawke romanced Isabela in DA2, it's mentioned that they remained together afterwards... but doing what? For how long? Some people claim that means they went sailing off on Isabela's new ship, and why would Hawke ever leave her side for even a single minute? We contradict that by saying Hawke disappeared and suddenly it's a clash with headcanon-- despite "Hawke remains with Isabela forever" not being a choice we offered.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it. We realize some people are very precious about their PC's, and we're not apt to go out of our way to have them do things that violate headcanon... but they obviously did something, and that involves a plot that may not be what someone had in mind. Just be aware.

I'm happy to see Mr.  Gaider defending the use of these characters as NPCs. This is perfectly fine for me and if I get to see them participating as heroes in the story and they are given appropriately epic roles, then even better.

Exactly. I'm glad to see them again. And they've said time and time agin that if/when they do it, the situation will be handled with extream care. 

[RogueWriter3201]

DesmondHume wrote...

Gaider, i want you to know that youre a pompous ass. Stop thinking so highly of yourself and thinking that only your ideas are correct and good, and maybe you'll actually produce a good cohesive plot unlike DA2

Right. Because I'm sure the opinion of some random spiteful forum troll is going to be of any significance to him as he continues his career as lead writer for a major game development studio. I'm sure while he's traveling around the world, enjoying the fans who appreciate him and the numerous successful games he's been a part of and his position as a creative lead in the game writer's industry, he's going to stop, unable to go forward with his career because what you think of him and his work matters so much. By the way, let us know when your next hit game that you wrote the story for comes out Desmound. I'm sure we'll all be eager to behold what superior narrative prose you accomplished... 

[RogueWriter3201]

Ericander77 wrote...

Yalision wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Or...are you saying that the epilogue counts as headcanon?

Some people also headcanon the epilogues. If Hawke romanced Isabela in DA2, it's mentioned that they remained together afterwards... but doing what? For how long? Some people claim that means they went sailing off on Isabela's new ship, and why would Hawke ever leave her side for even a single minute? We contradict that by saying Hawke disappeared and suddenly it's a clash with headcanon-- despite "Hawke remains with Isabela forever" not being a choice we offered.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it. We realize some people are very precious about their PC's, and we're not apt to go out of our way to have them do things that violate headcanon... but they obviously did something, and that involves a plot that may not be what someone had in mind. Just be aware.

I'm happy to see Mr.  Gaider defending the use of these characters as NPCs. This is perfectly fine for me and if I get to see them participating as heroes in the story and they are given appropriately epic roles, then even better.

Exactly. I'm glad to see them again. And they've said time and time agin that if/when they do it, the situation will be handled with extream care. 

Indeed. Pity that no matter how much thought  they put into it or how careful they are there will just be no pleasing some people. Honestly, I have to admit my curiosity at how the the story of our two alternate protaganists are going to be wrapped up amidst everything else happening in Inquisition. Gah, the suspense! 

[Catroi]

Revan showed us what happens when you triffle with old PCs

people were not pleased by how he acted and by what he said to say the least...

[DarthSliver]

The Warden and Hawke need more closure and we must accept how Bioware handles it, just remember both had dealings with Flemeth and both disappeared. Bioware could use more than that obviously but I dont think its farfetch for Bioware to say Flemeth made them disappear. I only say Flemeth is involved because she is obviously up to something and she might not want The Warden or Hawke in her way now that they are no further use to her plan and might only hinder it.

[DarthSliver]

Catroi wrote...

Revan showed us what happens when you triffle with old PCs

people were not pleased by how he acted and by what he said to say the least...

Actually Revan in TOR show us Bioware shouldve made KOTOR 3 and not TOR the MMO

[Jerrybnsn]

ziloe wrote...

Personally, I don't mind if you add more depth to my character. He'd be older and wiser. And he's a father now. So that's what matters.

an extra 10 to 12 years isn't adding that much "older" or "wiser".  I see them just setting the scenario of what your Warden has been up to since Witch Hunt up til the disapperance.  Or if the Witch Hunt was the disappearance.  I just don't see them turning them into npcs.  The only way to see them in a game would be if you are controlling them.  Using them as npcs would be sacrilige, and mentioning them only in codex, or small conversation would be overall disappoint the fans of Warden and Hawke.

It'll be interesting to see how they hurdle this problem.

[Starwingz]

DarthSliver wrote...

Catroi wrote...

Revan showed us what happens when you triffle with old PCs

people were not pleased by how he acted and by what he said to say the least...

Actually Revan in TOR show us Bioware shouldve made KOTOR 3 and not TOR the MMO

Revan was canonized by Lucas; its not biowares fault on that one.

[Shevy]

The only issue I have with an appearance of former protagonists is how they will look. What they have done between the end of the game and their reappearance, well that is completely out of my control and I'm fine with it. I'm confident in the writers skills to create a plot and behaviour of them which aren't out of place.

Although, I hope they leave the Warden out of the game because s/he is way more difficult to handle than Hawke, about whom I don't care anyway.

[archangel1996]

Recruit would be trouble, but an option to decide what are Hawke/Warden("Did you hear about the Warden? yeah, i heared he died/disappeared/fightin with the Wardens") and go on with that is not impossibile
I would really like a 30 minutes with 'em alone just to give them some closure because, let's be serious here, the disappearing factor is the cheapest way out there is........BW can blame headcanon but, to me, it sounds like an excuse

[Jerrybnsn]

And what's wrong or hard about allowing the player to control your Warden or Hawke at a point in the game? They did it in Origins and DA2 when you were given control of Morrigan and Varric. And as far as what they look like, allow the customization screen to pop up. Are there really people out there that don't like customization screens? The more customization the better I say.

edit:  And no, I'm not saying make three protagonists.  I would never put that type of pressure on Bioware.  They're not Rockstar.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 13 août 2013 - 12:01 .

[Vilegrim]

Huntress wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Hawke can come back for a cameo..the Inquisitor tries to rack a confession of suck out of him, then ...

Hawke stand up and cast Second Chance on himself and laughing ask the inquisitor: you thought I was going to be that easy for a level 1?

In a blink Hawke cast Unshakable on himself and turn to his agressor, are you done? Well let me show you my spells in orders shall we:
Horror
Crushing Prison
Hex of Torment
Stonefist.

Inquisitor falls to his knees, he looks up showing signs of great pain and astonishment in his face then ask:
level 1 Inquisitor:how many levels?
Hawke: 40 and counting.

Level 40  warden: cousin.. stop hurting the poor fella, he has much to learn.
Hawke: Fine, i was getting bored anyway.. can we stop at Starkheaven? Sebastian need to learn the order of things aswell.

'nobpdy expects the inquisition, that meal ytou shared last night in the tavern? Well the neurotoxin should be kicking in about now, oh, and if you try magic, either casting it yourself, or being the target it will cause you to become possessed, thank you for not locating the notres on the process when you broke that group in Kirkwall btw, so, back to the toxin, you will find your thoughts slowing and your fingers loosing dexterity, then it will progress in from the extremities over the next twenty to thirty seconds, until you fall into semic conciousness and paralysis, but at no point is this affect an anesthetic, in fact it heightens the sensation of pain'

'You thought I was going to FIGHT you ? Really?  Oh no, I have far better ways of exerting my will than that.'

[Huntress]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

And what's wrong or hard about allowing the player to control your Warden or Hawke at a point in the game? They did it in Origins and DA2 when you were given control of Morrigan and Varric. And as far as what they look like, allow the customization screen to pop up. Are there really people out there that don't like customization screens? The more customization the better I say.

edit:  And no, I'm not saying make three protagonists.  I would never put that type of pressure on Bioware.  They're not Rockstar.

There is Nothing wrong with it, some people just need to Btch about...well everything. Some have an stake so "up theirs" that believe everyone should just follow their idiotic way of seen the world.. meh just laught , keep moving, no worth it.

Let me be clear what I want and what the writer are creating are 3 worlds apart, thats reallity and I dont have a problem with it, well maybe a tiny problem, the main character been called inquisitor.. ewww thats the problem.
other than that... is all fun and games.
Can't wait to learn more about DA3.

Modifié par Huntress, 13 août 2013 - 02:25 .

[robertthebard]

Huntress wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

And what's wrong or hard about allowing the player to control your Warden or Hawke at a point in the game? They did it in Origins and DA2 when you were given control of Morrigan and Varric. And as far as what they look like, allow the customization screen to pop up. Are there really people out there that don't like customization screens? The more customization the better I say.

edit:  And no, I'm not saying make three protagonists.  I would never put that type of pressure on Bioware.  They're not Rockstar.

There is Nothing wrong with it, some people just need to Btch about...well everything. Some have an stake so "up theirs" that believe everyone should just follow their idiotic way of seen the world.. meh just laught , keep moving, no worth it.

Let me be clear what I want and what the writer are creating are 3 worlds apart, thats reallity and I dont have a problem with it, well maybe a tiny problem, the main character been called inquisitor.. ewww thats the problem.
other than that... is all fun and games.
Can wait to learn more about DA3.

This is a valid point; like the people that choose to ignore the fact that my Warden is dead, and I should have to have their rotting corpse in my party because they want it done. 

[Taleroth]

BackdoorPaco wrote...

Why wouldn't they? One is a (the?) Warden Commander and the other is the Champion of Kirkwall that may have sided with mages or templars.
They're obviously important people in their respective groups and, most likely, influential.

Hawke was a complete failure. He was the champion of a city of complete nutters.

The only thing he did, as opposed to simply having been present for, of note was fighting the Arishok one-on-one. And while it is indeed an impressive feat, it's not one that's precisely relevant to anything going on.

ChaosHound wrote...

Revan was canonized by Lucas; its not biowares fault on that one.

George Lucas himself has no involvement in the day-to-day development of the EU. He's more or less completely detached from that.

What happened to Revan was written and decided by Karpashyn.

Modifié par Taleroth, 13 août 2013 - 02:32 .

[Jaison1986]

robertthebard wrote...
This is a valid point; like the people that choose to ignore the fact that my Warden is dead, and I should have to have their rotting corpse in my party because they want it done. 

If your Warden is dead, they he is dead. But the point is that some people had their Warden survive Origins and would like to see them again. People argue that they shouldn't appear because the Warden and Hawke personal stories are done. While that is true, we gotta keep in mind that regardless if they found personal closure, these two characters still have greate influence and relevance in Thedas due to their actions, and people would expect them to give aid in such an chaotic time.

[Jerrybnsn]

robertthebard wrote...

This is a valid point; like the people that choose to ignore the fact that my Warden is dead, and I should have to have their rotting corpse in my party because they want it done. 

You're rotting corpse can stay in the ground and keep rotting.  And I mean that in a nice way.  Why would player's choice of their Wardens still being alive effect your decision to be dead?  No one forced you to play Awakenings as a live warden when they were dead....wait, they did!

[robertthebard]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

This is a valid point; like the people that choose to ignore the fact that my Warden is dead, and I should have to have their rotting corpse in my party because they want it done. 

You're rotting corpse can stay in the ground and keep rotting.  And I mean that in a nice way.  Why would player's choice of their Wardens still being alive effect your decision to be dead?  No one forced you to play Awakenings as a live warden when they were dead....wait, they did!

Except they didn't, with that particular Warden, Awakening wasn't out yet.

The point, however, is more:  It's going to be convoluted to write all these possible scenarios simply to make the Warden a party member.  My Warden's story is done.  It was time to move on when DA 2 came out.  If I feel the need to revisit my Warden, I can simply load a save game, and revisit.  I have, for example, a specific save so that I can load it and watch Leliana's song.  Yes, it's all over youtube, and yes, I have the soundtrack, somewhere, but I like loading the game and watching it better.