190 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

And "freedom of choice" and "liberty" are meaningless, and holds absolutely no importance to me. The only thing that holds importance to me is happiness. I would much rather live in a totalitarian society and be truly happy, than live as a "free" man and be miserable.

So you may be a convert. Others would disagree and would be among the many people who died resisting the qunari. Both should be free to join or reject the Qun as they choose, but the very nature of the Qun prevents such freedom.

As I've said: Ideally joinning with the Qunari should be a free choice.

[Nefla]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And "freedom of choice" and "liberty" are meaningless, and holds absolutely no importance to me. The only thing that holds importance to me is happiness. I would much rather live in a totalitarian society and be truly happy, than live as a "free" man and be miserable.

So you may be a convert. Others would disagree and would be among the many people who died resisting the qunari. Both should be free to join or reject the Qun as they choose, but the very nature of the Qun prevents such freedom.

As I've said: Ideally joinning with the Qunari should be a free choice.

But that's not how the Qunari roll. Either you submit yourself to the Qun when your land is invaded, you get turned into a zombie-esque worker like the tranquil, or you die. Families are ripped apart and divvied out. If you don't like your role within the Qun, too bad. You get to be what they tell you to be or you die (or run away and try to hide).

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Nefla wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And "freedom of choice" and "liberty" are meaningless, and holds absolutely no importance to me. The only thing that holds importance to me is happiness. I would much rather live in a totalitarian society and be truly happy, than live as a "free" man and be miserable.

So you may be a convert. Others would disagree and would be among the many people who died resisting the qunari. Both should be free to join or reject the Qun as they choose, but the very nature of the Qun prevents such freedom.

As I've said: Ideally joinning with the Qunari should be a free choice.

But that's not how the Qunari roll. Either you submit yourself to the Qun when your land is invaded, you get turned into a zombie-esque worker like the tranquil, or you die. Families are ripped apart and divvied out. If you don't like your role within the Qun, too bad. You get to be what they tell you to be or you die (or run away and try to hide).

The "you have to be what they tell you to be" seems to be the major hang-up. As both Sten and the Arishok describe, the Tamassran assign your role after a general education in the Qun. What you show a natural aptittude for is where they put you. If you've shown potential as an artisan or a craftsman, they will put you there. If you show potential as a soldier, you get to hang out with the Beresaad. It's not like a lottery where they hand you a number and the lucky bugger with 44 gets to sewage disposal. The Tamassran place you in society where you will be most useful. I'm sure some people exist that have natural talent and choose not to use it, but the majority of people gravitate towards things they're good at to begin with. I don't think it's as gloomy or totalitarian as people here make it out to be.

I doubt the Qunari society is as idyllic as either the Arishok or Sten claim. I'm interested to hear a Tal-Vashoth's version of it. That being said, from what we know of them right now (as little as it really is), the Qunari are the only society in Thedas who seem to be relatively modern. Aside from their brutal treatment of mages, I don' really see the problem with them.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And "freedom of choice" and "liberty" are meaningless, and holds absolutely no importance to me. The only thing that holds importance to me is happiness. I would much rather live in a totalitarian society and be truly happy, than live as a "free" man and be miserable.

So you may be a convert. Others would disagree and would be among the many people who died resisting the qunari. Both should be free to join or reject the Qun as they choose, but the very nature of the Qun prevents such freedom.

As I've said: Ideally joinning with the Qunari should be a free choice.

And that is not the qunari; indeed, it's the opposite, as they never offer any choices at all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Again, as I've also already explained: ALL cultures goes through periods of aggressive expansionism. That is not a unique quality of the Qunari. ALL of our cultures has gone through the same, at one point or another. I have no reason to believe that this expansionism will remain with the Qunari.

[Xilizhra]

Even when the expansionism is a fundamental part of their religion and has been since the very beginning?

[GodWood]

VampireSoap wrote...
Single-party rule, means of production collectively owned by the society, free access to articles of consumption, distribution based on need. Yeah, they aren't communists. I imagined all that. My bad.

Autocratic dictator with absolute power, convoluted bureaucracy vying for rulers favour, semi-capitalistic economy, institutionalized racism with clear racial hierarchy.

Fereldan is Nazi Germany. Alistair is Hitler.

-------

Anyways, the whole communist thing was simply a clever way for the OP to draw people into his thread as it was not at all related to his question. 

Modifié par GodWood, 14 août 2013 - 11:04 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Even when the expansionism is a fundamental part of their religion and has been since the very beginning?

Expansionism is an essential part of EVERY religion, except for the Jewish actually. All other, major religions anyway, have it at their very core, that if you are faithful and meet one who is not, you should try to convert him. So again, not something I can criticize the Qunari for.

[KiwiQuiche]

Godwin's Law, we meet again.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even when the expansionism is a fundamental part of their religion and has been since the very beginning?

Expansionism is an essential part of EVERY religion, except for the Jewish actually. All other, major religions anyway, have it at their very core, that if you are faithful and meet one who is not, you should try to convert him. So again, not something I can criticize the Qunari for.

For Buddhism? Hinduism? I've not heard of expansionist themes in either one. Granted, the Chantry's religion is perhaps just as bad as the Qun in doctrine, though the execution is less thorough and bloody for the most part, but that seems like much more of a reason to criticize the Chantry, especially since the Dalish and dwarven religions aren't at all expansionist.

[blod007]

I agree with the expansionism idea. For in order for A to invade and conquer B, surely they need to at least know that the plan is viable and have the resources to carry out such a far thinking idea. This probably would take hundreds of years, whether religion driven or just logical thinking.

So in a way their building themselves up for the next onslaught, much like the Inquisition is going to do. The only difference I can see, is that the Qunari have been building or evolving themselves entirely whereas the inquisition sounds to me like an organisation, that has some sort of time frame that could become some sort of implementation force. The direction it takes has not yet been revealed.

The Qunari weak spot as I read it was their inability to deal was offensive magic on a large scale. If they had some intelligence that now was the best time to mount an invasion. I wouldn't mind betting that they use this chaos to their advantage and make a move even if they were not in the position of superiority, but had a chance of success.

Would they become allies or enemies? idk.

[Jaronking]

Sometime I think people make the Qunari are a bigger threat then they really are.

[Fallstar]

The 'communist' Qunari. Help I don't even.

I think they've got enough going on in DA:I already to be honest - you've got the potential civil war in Orlais and the mage/templar rebellion going on in the 'background' (so to speak) and the potentially cataclysmic tearing of the veil as the main plotline.

I expect the Qunari will be expanded on more in a later game set in the Tevinter Imperium.

[Fredward]

I'd bet my favorite pair of socks on it. The red one and the purple one.

[Jaronking]

i don't think the qunari will have the men power to attack with the tal voshhoth attacking them and their arshock dead even with Sten it would take time to invade again

[PinkysPain]

I don't know about the Qunari ... but I could see other Kossith becoming a threat.

The Qunari ran away from something ... that something might follow them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We don't know the Qunari were fleeing the original homeland. They could have simply been migrating or expanding.

Jaronking wrote...

i don't think the qunari will have the
men power to attack with the tal voshhoth attacking them and their
arshock dead even with Sten it would take time to invade again

The Tal'vashoth are a minority who are too weak to stand up to the Antaam, so they try to attack the most helpless civilians. I think they are really only a problem in Seheron and Rivain. And if the Arishok is dead, they can just replace him with another. They didn't lose a lot of manpower in the incident at Kirkwall, it was only one Dreadnaught.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 17 août 2013 - 08:54 .

[Jaronking]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

We don't know the Qunari were fleeing the original homeland. They could have simply been migrating or expanding.

Jaronking wrote...

i don't think the qunari will have the
men power to attack with the tal voshhoth attacking them and their
arshock dead even with Sten it would take time to invade again

The Tal'vashoth are a minority who are too weak to stand up to the Antaam, so they try to attack the most helpless civilians. I think they are really only a problem in Seheron and Rivain. And if the Arishok is dead, they can just replace him with another. They didn't lose a lot of manpower in the incident at Kirkwall, it was only one Dreadnaught.

It's only take a small group of people to spark a rebelion when people get tried of other people rules they start fight back and that how rebellion happen   

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If I had my way, I would have let the Arishok take over Kirkwall. Maybe that way we wouldn't have idiots like Meredith, Orsino and Anders ruining everything.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 18 août 2013 - 12:18 .

[Ausstig]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

If I had my way, I would have let the Arishok take over Kirkwall. Maybe that way we wouldn't have idiots like Meredith, Orsino and Anders ruining everything.

No he simply would have turned everyone in to mindless drones. Which is worse then any thing any of those three did. 

Tranquil does not make you a drone with no free will, it removes emotions not your mind. 

[Fallstar]

Ausstig wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

If I had my way, I would have let the Arishok take over Kirkwall. Maybe that way we wouldn't have idiots like Meredith, Orsino and Anders ruining everything.

No he simply would have turned everyone in to mindless drones. Which is worse then any thing any of those three did. 

Tranquil does not make you a drone with no free will, it removes emotions not your mind. 

And those who have had their tranquil state temporarily removed begged for death rather than return to it. I don't think the Qun and being made tranquil are in the same league really.

[Ausstig]

DuskWarden wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

If I had my way, I would have let the Arishok take over Kirkwall. Maybe that way we wouldn't have idiots like Meredith, Orsino and Anders ruining everything.

No he simply would have turned everyone in to mindless drones. Which is worse then any thing any of those three did. 

Tranquil does not make you a drone with no free will, it removes emotions not your mind. 

And those who have had their tranquil state temporarily removed begged for death rather than return to it. I don't think the Qun and being made tranquil are in the same league really.

I agree. 

The Qun is much worse. It destorys the minds of those who follow it. Those who escape would beg for death if they were not so indoctrinted. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Equating a society with a caste system to communism seems like a critical failure in basic politics to me. But I digress. There's enough name-calling, dubious philosophy and chest-tumping in this thread already

The Qunari would be fools not to take full advantage of the chaos in Thedas to advance their position, especially after (as far as they know) those dastardly Kirkwallers killed their Arishok. Well, unless the Rift or whatever summons those ugly critters in the trailer also affects them. But since they already have Qunari modeled into the game, I doubt it will only be to have them stand around glaring at people.

[Iron Fist]

The Qunari will definitely strike soon. It's a time of moral crisis. People are questioning their beliefs and are dividing themselves further and further. This is prime time for some ol' Tome-thumpin'.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 18 août 2013 - 03:10 .

[Fallstar]

Ausstig wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

And those who have had their tranquil state temporarily removed begged for death rather than return to it. I don't think the Qun and being made tranquil are in the same league really.

I agree. 

The Qun is much worse. It destorys the minds of those who follow it. Those who escape would beg for death if they were not so indoctrinted. 

No it doesn't. And no they don't. The Tal-Vashoth abandoned the Qun without having their minds destroyed, and since they are the only people we have seen who have done so, where on earth do you get that idea from?

Modifié par DuskWarden, 18 août 2013 - 03:09 .